GOA suing FL over Open Carry Ban & Under-21 Carry Ban.

[gnappi]

If you have the right under the U.S. Constitution, why would you need "reciprocity", "CCW allowed", etc

This is where firearm owners have a problem we eat each other and bicker over minutiae.

I HAVE rights in Florida that many others in states like California do not have. Those are the ones that need help. YMMV.

 

[DustyDog]

This is where firearm owners have a problem we eat each other and bicker over minutiae.

I HAVE rights in Florida that many others in states like California do not have. Those are the ones that need help. YMMV.

The problem is you're using a non-standard definition of a "right". A right is not something that someone gives you permission to do, a right is something that they cannot prohibit you from doing. You do not have the right to bear arms in Florida, according to Florida statutes... you have permission to carry concealed.

 

[gnappi]

Earth to GOA, it's Gun Owners of America... NOT Florida, smell the coffee!!!

My rights are FARRrrr better represented here than other places, so leave me out of the myopic frothing at the mouth blinder wearing self serving zealot thing.

 

[gnappi]

PS, some of Y'all don't give a HOOT about the RIGHTS of Americans, only YOUR geographically selfish needs.

Plugging a hole in the dyke or poking me in my eye does nothing for the rest of America.

 

[DustyDog]

PS, some of Y'all don't give a HOOT about the RIGHTS of Americans, only YOUR geographically selfish needs.

Poking a hole in the dyke or in my eye does nothing for the rest of America.

And note that I'm famous for playing Devil's advocate, because... well... somebody has to do it

I actually totally understand your position, because it's a method I use for prioritization: Look for areas where you can make the biggest gains, before you try to perfect any one area, e.g., "Lop the tops off of the tallest trees", so your problems are "more equally pressing".

But going after low-hanging fruit is a component of that method as well (i.e., work from the top and the bottom towards the happy medium?). And if we can set the precedent in enough states that you actually have the right to keep and bear arms... no need for "reciprocity" or "allowing" or "giving permission" for CCW, certain mags or rifles, etc., it puts more pressure on the outliers... of which Florida is one, in fact, as regards the most basic right to bear... nothing else matters more. What good is freedom of speech, if they can dictate how and when you can talk?

P.S., I love debating issues... since it helps to hone my own opinion... even if that means I end up moving one way or the other. So it's never a negative experience for me, despite how it may appear

 

[blair_heavenwood]

PS, some of Y'all don't give a HOOT about the RIGHTS of Americans, only YOUR geographically selfish needs.

Plugging a hole in the dyke or poking me in my eye does nothing for the rest of America.

This Fudd is literally yelling at his screen but he thinks we're "frothing at the mouth."

 

[gnappi]

This Fudd is literally yelling at his screen but he thinks we're "frothing at the mouth."

This Fudd is literally yelling at his screen but he thinks we're "frothing at the mouth."

Awww, did you get your feelings hurt? So soorrryyy... maybe some are in need of a holding hands circle.

I stand for America, not just Florida, AMERICA, all of it, GOA hasn't done anything but pander to extremists with this move, I'm certain owners of firearms in other states who TRULY (caps for emphasis not yelling) have rights trod upon do not appreciate watching money go down the drain to fight states the WISH they had Florida's gun owner's "problems".

Since you're not aware, all caps is not always yelling, but since you brought it up, I'll use CAP ITALICS for emphasis?

 

[DustyDog]

This Fudd is literally yelling at his screen but he thinks we're "frothing at the mouth."

HEY! I use ALL CAPS sometimes because I figure: I don't SPEAK in a monotone, so why should I WRITE in one!

 

[gnappi]

Dusty, right on!

And I'm called me a FUDD for championing American's rights? Some clearly need remedial English interpretation.

 

[blair_heavenwood]

Awww, did you get your feelings hurt? So soorrryyy... maybe some are in need of a holding hands circle.

I stand for America, not just Florida, AMERICA, all of it, GOA hasn't done anything but pander to extremists with this move, I'm certain owners of firearms in other states who TRULY (caps for emphasis not yelling) have rights trod upon do not appreciate watching money go down the drain to fight states the WISH they had Florida's gun owner's "problems".

Since you're not aware, all caps is not always yelling, but since you brought it up, I'll use CAP ITALICS for emphasis?

Fudd just keeps getting Fuddier. Now anyone who advocates for open carry are "extremists."

 

[blair_heavenwood]

HEY! I use ALL CAPS sometimes because I figure: I don't SPEAK in a monotone, so why should I WRITE in one!

I gotcha, bud. I imagine people like our friend here spitting bits of food onto their keyboards from the leftovers they snuck out of Golden Corral.

 

[gnappi]

I gotcha, bud. I imagine people like our friend here spitting bits of food onto their keyboards from the leftovers they snuck out of Golden Corral.

Since you're into insults, I'll let it go at once you go there you lose.

 

[blair_heavenwood]

Since you're into insults, I'll let it go at once you go there you lose.

You consider me calling you a Fudd an insult? It's a concise term that accurately represents your position. That is that we should shut up and take the "rights" the most gracious state of Florida has deigned we be allowed, and that opting to fight for our rights qualifies us a mouth-frothing extremists.

I think you need an education on the organization of our great Republic, and how State's rights work in the federal system, and how why people advocating for their rights is never a bad thing. I live in Florida and I will continue to petition my state and local government to redress my grievances, because that is the government that has the greatest affect on my life and it is also the most accessible.

I've tried to visit with my Federal representatives while in DC. Was impossible. I'll tell you what, Captain America, I'll leave that fight to you.

 

[sloporsche]

I like being an old fudd ....we like revolvers ,magnum anything ,30-06, if we are forced to use an automatic we choose 1911 and 99 % of us own and prefer AK 47 's .....we just do not let on we do

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

I like being an old fudd ....we like revolvers ,magnum anything ,30-06, if we are forced to use an automatic we choose 1911 and 99 % of us own and prefer AK 47 's .....we just do not let on we do

Yeah! .45!! Only nazis carry 9mm.

 

[DustyDog]

Yeah! .45!! Only nazis carry 9mm.

No comment

 

[Themumfordman]

I was an NRA member for a long time, but dropped that a couple years back in favor of organizations like FPC and GOA who are actively pursuing the FULL extent of our civil rights.

We all saw during Covid how fragile our rights are, as so many states and even from a federal level there was illegal censorship and ruining of so many people's lives and livelihoods. All of this was in the name of "public safety"....but WHO defines what that means?

This to me is a clear letter of the law situation. The Constitution protects established natural rights without restriction or qualification. For all Americans, for all time. That means EVERY state is forbidden from withholding those rights from law abiding American citizens, anyone who qualifies as "we the people."

I wouldn't open carry most places, but 100% agree that the intent and letter of our foundational law should be upheld no matter what. Logically and logistically, as Florida is an outlier state where an otherwise red-blooded American locale is held to extreme unconstitutional restrictions in a couple specific areas, it stands to reason that fighting that battle here in order to enforce a potential national precedent (i.e. Bruen) would be a pretty solid choice. Especially in this case as it would be substantially less expensive and potentially drawn out to pursue that in more friendly courts on its initial pass at the District level.

Think about the cases in California brought before Judge Benitez in the southern District court. Most have been overturned on appeal within days - even trying something like this in a relatively friendly district in one of those hard left states would be a massive uphill battle. The likelihood of success is much higher here, and initial success can help create precedent for national-level litigation afterwards. I may be wrong, but to me that makes a lot of sense from a tactical legal perspective.

 

[DustyDog]

I was an NRA member for a long time, but dropped that a couple years back in favor of organizations like FPC and GOA who are actively pursuing the FULL extent of our civil rights.

We all saw during Covid how fragile our rights are, as so many states and even from a federal level there was illegal censorship and ruining of so many people's lives and livelihoods. All of this was in the name of "public safety"....but WHO defines what that means?

This to me is a clear letter of the law situation. The Constitution protects established natural rights without restriction or qualification. For all Americans, for all time. That means EVERY state is forbidden from withholding those rights from law abiding American citizens, anyone who qualifies as "we the people."

I wouldn't open carry most places, but 100% agree that the intent and letter of our foundational law should be upheld no matter what. Logically and logistically, as Florida is an outlier state where an otherwise red-blooded American locale is held to extreme unconstitutional restrictions in a couple specific areas, it stands to reason that fighting that battle here in order to enforce a potential national precedent (i.e. Bruen) would be a pretty solid choice. Especially in this case as it would be substantially less expensive and potentially drawn out to pursue that in more friendly courts on its initial pass at the District level.

Think about the cases in California brought before Judge Benitez in the southern District court. Most have been overturned on appeal within days - even trying something like this in a relatively friendly district in one of those hard left states would be a massive uphill battle. The likelihood of success is much higher here, and initial success can help create precedent for national-level litigation afterwards. I may be wrong, but to me that makes a lot of sense from a tactical legal perspective.

Yep... as I said above: No need to ignore low-hanging fruit.

 

[sloporsche]

Yeah! .45!! Only nazis carry 9mm.

hoodrats and LA gangstas too

 

[DustyDog]

hoodrats and LA gangstas too

And Yankees...