Precision AR .308 Win.

[seandizzie]

Shot this yesterday at 320yards.

All impacts were consecutive. This was done with a factory AR 308, Sig 716i.

Wind was around 8 mph from 8 o clock. The shots in the lower right where the first four I changed my hold and got the upper left two, the last shot that hit the bolt knocked the target to the ground which is why there’s sand on the front of it.

 

[Jhunter]

Great recent podcast. Ben Gossett is an AMU shooter who just walked away with a nice purse at the AG Cup. I think he won close to $40k. He covers group size in this podcast and even states that no one has .25 moa rifle after taking averages of a handful of groups. If you could figure out the .33 MOA gas gun you could quit your day job. Most of these comps have prize tables and several have cash payouts.

 

[M118LR]

Most folks will find that the mechanical accuracy of a rifle shot off a rest from the bench will provide smaller groups than rifles shot from any other position. Prone from a bipod should be about as close as you can get. I find it's easier to visualize the size of a group when the target has marked grids. (IE one by one squares or 1/2 by one rectangles. ) Outer edge to outer edge minus the diameter of the caliber, or center to center, or just outer edge to outer edge. Think I got a photo of a 100 yard sighting target that has one inch squares with half inch left & right rectangles. Makes it allot easier for me to visualize group size when viewing a photo. This is the target from the M80 tests. Only four round/shot groups to even things up between blind box rem (B & D) and mag feed Ruger (A & C). It's made by HOPPE'S, I like it.

 

[Jester896]

I shot these with another guys rifle...I did send 1 @ 300 first to see what the hold would be before I sent 2 to the others.

I sent 3 to the pink one...but I rocked it on the first

a good day...it was a trued 700 action with a Shilen barrel in a B&C stock. Don't know if I can do that with a gasser

 

[M118LR]

I shot these with another guys rifle...I did send 1 @ 300 first to see what the hold would be before I sent 2 to the others.
View attachment 209423
I sent 3 to the pink one...but I rocked it on the first

View attachment 209425

a good day...it was a trued 700 action with a Shilen barrel in a B&C stock. Don't know if I can do that with a gasser

Jester, a Skoal can is almost 2 1/2 inches. While it's less than MOA at 300 yards, it's more than double one inch at 300 yards. Since Jhunter is a top competitor and he says that 1 inch at 300 is impossible, perhaps it's best I don't waste my time and republic credits After all?

 

[Jester896]

I don't know about competitions

i didn't use the whole can

I don't remember how many rounds this was with my LR .260 but I let a few get away from me

 

[M118LR]

Hey, that how many times can you hit the Skoal can at 300 is still a "Cracker Competition" but they don't give you 40k for it unless you're shooting against the gullible. LOL. What about Bobbers at 200? Not to mention driving 16 penny nails at 100. But those aren't going to earn you any medals as a Top Competitor. Yet folks may shy away from picking up the Bar Tab after they have braced you in such challenges? JMHO. LOL. Yet the mechanical accuracy of a rifle isn't dependent on the nut behind the butt. Cinch the rifle into a ransom rest and fire those 20 slow fire and then all the rapid fire rounds in your match. Now measure the entire group. Once you have completed that, they attempt to match the results. There are more rifles able to hold one inch groups at 300 yards than there are shooters. JMHO. YMMV. Still have yet to hear why a Stoner Type .308 Win firearm can't obtain the mechanical accuracy of 1 inch at 300 yards? Other firearms with less engineering advantages have met or exceeded such standards of mechanical accuracy.

 

[seandizzie]

I don't know about competitions

i didn't use the whole can

I don't remember how many rounds this was with my LR .260 but I let a few get away from me
View attachment 209438

That is some good stuff with a gasser!

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

Nice shooting guys...

 

[Jester896]

That is some good stuff with a gasser!

sorry for the confusion....those weren't from gassers

Here is a gasser (M1A) @100 ...wonder what it would do with a scope

 

[seandizzie]

Hey, that how many times can you hit the Skoal can at 300 is still a "Cracker Competition" but they don't give you 40k for it unless you're shooting against the gullible. LOL. What about Bobbers at 200? Not to mention driving 16 penny nails at 100. But those aren't going to earn you any medals as a Top Competitor. Yet folks may shy away from picking up the Bar Tab after they have braced you in such challenges? JMHO. LOL. Yet the mechanical accuracy of a rifle isn't dependent on the nut behind the butt. Cinch the rifle into a ransom rest and fire those 20 slow fire and then all the rapid fire rounds in your match. Now measure the entire group. Once you have completed that, they attempt to match the results. There are more rifles able to hold one inch groups at 300 yards than there are shooters. JMHO. YMMV. Still have yet to hear why a Stoner Type .308 Win firearm can't obtain the mechanical accuracy of 1 inch at 300 yards? Other firearms with less engineering advantages have met or exceeded such standards of mechanical accuracy.

the cycle of the bolt moves things. Hell the Ar-308 i posted the 320yard impacts of WILL change the brasses head space when chambered, the bullet also moves a few thou when chambered.

It is my opinion the violence of the cycle effects the cartridge making the extreme tight .2 .3 moa groups you speak of not possible as an average.



Hell even the top level BR shooters are not shooting .20 as an average. Listen to Frank at 1hr 24min on Br accuracy…

 

[M118LR]

the cycle of the bolt moves things. Hell the Ar-308 i posted the 320yard impacts of WILL change the brasses head space when chambered, the bullet also moves a few thou when chambered.

It is my opinion the violence of the cycle effects the cartridge making the extreme tight .2 .3 moa groups you speak of not possible as an average.



Hell even the top level BR shooters are not shooting .20 as an average. Listen to Frank at 1hr 24min on Br accuracy…

Good stuff, actually held my interest.BR Top 20 .26 MOA for 150 rounds, Bottom 20 .42 MOA for 150 rounds. So if your precision rifle is not able to achieve a 20 round .333 mechanical accuracy from a bench rest how does that bode for your chance of placing in the top ten during a precision rifle match? I have noticed that my F-Class scores at 1000 yards did improve when I changed from a 6 groove premium barrel to a five groove (5R) but there was no noticeable difference at 300 or 600 yards. It was enlightening to hear about the science that backs up factual proof as to why that happens. But twist rates of 1:10 or 1:11.25 don't really have any noticeable difference until after 600 yards with M118LR either. Guess the Army nailed it with 5R 1:11.25 barrels on the M24 with 175 SMK'S? Who would have thunk it???

 

[M118LR]

About those cleaning questions? Best Remington 700 manual.

 

[seandizzie]

About those cleaning questions? Best Remington 700 manual.

Never heard anyone mention the weeping out of the pores 3 days after cleaning. Interesting!

 

[M118LR]

Never heard anyone mention the weeping out of the pores 3 days after cleaning. Interesting!

It's even older than you think, it was in the original cleaning procedures for the M-14. But a lot of cleaning procedures where lost in those M-16 Comic Books that passed for manuals. LOL. If y'all are interested in Lucas boreguides I got the address someplace. YMMV. https://www.military.com/history/original-m16-manual-was-vietnam-war-comic-book.html