Israel / Palestinian conflict

[wildrider666]

It's not about the Land nor the Land's significance to "multiple religions", those are just convenient cover excuses. It's about the genosidal hatred of Jews. Looks no further than the acts of violence against Jews throughout the World that are not physically "occupying the Land".

Dennis Prager: Israel-Palestine conflict is not what Left wants you to believe, it’s not over land

Conservative radio host Dennis Prager joined "Fox News Primetime" to discuss rising anti-Semitic attacks plaguing American cities and says the Left is wrong about the conflict in the Middle East, “The issue is not the land.”

www.foxnews.com

 

[FJ80]

The Palestinians gonna push it a little too far one day and get evaporated.
It would behoove them to not screw around with Israel.

 

[Carl]

It's about the genosidal hatred of Jews. Looks no further than the acts of violence against Jews throughout the World that are not physically "occupying the Land".

Dennis Prager: Israel-Palestine conflict is not what Left wants you to believe, it’s not over land

Conservative radio host Dennis Prager joined "Fox News Primetime" to discuss rising anti-Semitic attacks plaguing American cities and says the Left is wrong about the conflict in the Middle East, “The issue is not the land.”

www.foxnews.com

But why? What is the cause of this genocidal hate throughout the world?

 

[fl57caveman]

But why? What is the cause of this genocidal hate throughout the world?

satan....the father of chaos

 

[PaulT]

great history............

 

[M118LR]

But why? What is the cause of this genocidal hate throughout the world?

Success in business and the attainment of wealth. While others squandered thier wealth, the miserly spent only pennies frugally. If you want to purchase the best tasting cigar at the lowest price look no further than a Israeli friend. When it comes to bang for the buck Yiddish folk corner the market. Frugality is considered a strength within the Jewish Community. JMHO.

 

[FrommerStop]

..........


The most compelling argument to keep the US in the Israel conflict is simply this.
If the Muslims ever win, all the Christian places of importance will be utterly destroyed.
Their idea of "Cancel Culture" is to dynamite any religious buildings, statues, etc...
then rebuild a brand new Mosque on the remains of that important place.
The "Dome of the Rock" mosque is built on top of the Temple Mount, which was the
Main Jewish Temple for well over a thousand years...So you can see why the Jews
are peeved at Muslims about the takeover. See also the history of the "Wailing Wall".

Or heck, just do a Wiki search on...

Conversion of non-Islamic places of worship into mosques​

Pretty decent article, but it's by no means complete.

This is a very complicated subject. But this sort topic if we stick to trying go by what facts we can find I think is informative. If one does not know the facts, making the right decision is unlikely to happen.

The temple mount IIRC was destroyed by Romans and was not being used for much for a long time.

Wiki: The architecturally similar Dome of the Rock was built on the Temple Mount, which was an abandoned and disused area since 70 AD in the 7th century but which had previously been the site of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, the most sacred site in Judaism.[10] Umar initially built there a small prayer house which laid the foundation for the later construction of the Al-Aqsa mosque by the Umayyads.[11]

There is a long history of one religion taking a site from or of another religion and then another takes it. There were Christian Churches built upon the foundations of Pagan temples or least I have so seen claimed.

Wiki: The Herodian shrine of the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, the second most holy site in Judaism,[13] was converted into a church during the Crusades before being turned into a mosque in 1266 and henceforth banned to Jews and Christians.[14] Part of it was restored as a synagogue by Israel after 1967

This is a time when I would like to hear from someone that knows the muslim religion in detail without being a dogmatic extremist.
As I understand it the muslim religion does give validity to the christian and jewish religions and even gives credit to much of the old testament. But they have their own unique twist to it, especially the new testament, the trinity, and Jesus Christ. They consider Jesus to be holy and very important, but not the prophet and spokesman of God.
I do not want to say too much more because I may already have strayed from the new guidelines.
Here is a little more of the similarities of the three religions:
Ishmael, is one of the Islamic prophets and is revered in the Abrahamic holy books, including the Hebrew Tanakh, the Christian Old Testament, and the Quran, He was the first son of Abraham and the Egyptian Hagar (Genesis 16:3). According to the Genesis account, he died at the age of 137 (Genesis 25:17).

 

[M118LR]

This is a very complicated subject. But this sort topic if we stick to trying go by what facts we can find I think is informative. If one does not know the facts, making the right decision is unlikely to happen.

The temple mount IIRC was destroyed by Romans and was not being used for much for a long time.

There is a long history of one religion taking a site from or of another religion and then another takes it. There were Christian Churches built upon the foundations of Pagan temples or least I have so seen claimed.

This is a time when I would like to hear from someone that knows the muslim religion in detail without being a dogmatic extremist.
As I understand it the muslim religion does give validity to the christian and jewish religions and even gives credit to much of the old testament. But they have their own unique twist to it, especially the new testament, the trinity, and Jesus Christ. They consider Jesus to be holy and very important, but not the prophet and spokesman of God.
I do not want to say too much more because I may already have strayed from the new guidelines.
Here is a little more of the similarities of the three religions:
Ishmael, is one of the Islamic prophets and is revered in the Abrahamic holy books, including the Hebrew Tanakh, the Christian Old Testament, and the Quran, He was the first son of Abraham and the Egyptian Hagar (Genesis 16:3). According to the Genesis account, he died at the age of 137 (Genesis 25:17).

As a biblical and non-political statement, the Torah & the Old Testament both reference the usurpation of the First Born via deception.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_and_Esau

Further research may lend understanding to Mohamed, the only prophet of Allah?

 

[FrommerStop]

Success in business and the attainment of wealth. While others squandered thier wealth, the miserly spent only pennies frugally. If you want to purchase the best tasting cigar at the lowest price look no further than a Israeli friend. When it comes to bang for the buck Yiddish folk corner the market. Frugality is considered a strength within the Jewish Community. JMHO.

A Jewish room mate once claimed to me to me that while the Jews were good at business, but the Lebanese were better. In the morning they could buy something from a christian and in the afternoon sell it at a profit to a Jew, but then their ancestors were the Phoenicians, another Semitic people.

 

[M118LR]

A Jewish room mate once claimed to me to me that while the Jews were good a business, but the Lebanese were better. In the morning they could buy something from a christian and in the afternoon sell it at a profit to a Jew, but then their ancesters were the Phoenicians, another Semitic people.

Yet the Phoenicians, pilfered thousands of tons of copper out of Michigan to finance thier hold on trade during thier time of commercial power.

 

[FrommerStop]

Yet the Phoenicians, pilfered thousands of tons of copper out of Michigan to finance thier hold on trade during thier time of commercial power.

One does need to exercise caution. There is what is called alternative archeology. That does not mean that they are wrong, but caution is still needed. One would need to look at isotopes of old world copper of that time period and see what it says. I suspect for example that Columbus had a map of where he was going made by those that had went before him and he thought he was going to the east indies lol.
What I am trying to say is that people may have been to american prior to columbus and the earlier vikings. Whether it was the Celts, or africans, or Basque Fisherman, that is all up for debate. I forgot the Chinese lol.

 

[M118LR]

One does need to exercise caution. There what is called alternative archeology. That does not mean that they are wrong, but caution is still needed. One would need to look at isotopes of old world copper of that time period and see what it says. I suspect for example that Columbus had a map of where he was going made by those that had went before him and he thought he was going to the east indies lol.
What I am trying to say is that people may have been to american prior to columbus and the earlier vikings. Whether it was the Celts, or africans, or Basque Fisherman, that is all up for debate. I forgot the Chinese lol.

Yes I understand, but the metallurgy confirms that the Phoenician copper was mined from current day Michigan. About that alternative archeology, even the uneducated can watch the "Curse of Oak Island" or Google pre-Columbus settlements uncovered in CONUS or other North American Territories. It is the Dogma of Scholars to believe that only thier opinions/theories are correct. Yet time after time those theories have to take into the facts of other hard sciences that prove them inadequate. JMHO.

 

[FrommerStop]

Yes I understand, but the metallurgy confirms that the Phoenician copper was mined from current day Michigan. About that alternative archeology, even the uneducated can watch the "Curse of Oak Island" or Google pre-Columbus settlements uncovered in CONUS or other North American Territories. It is the Dogma of Scholars to believe that only thier opinions/theories are correct. Yet time after time those theories have to take into the facts of other hard sciences that prove them inadequate. JMHO.

I do have to agree with you on your criticisms of archeologists and historians. Especially the historians. In such a debate I would want to closely review the data and also look at different reviews on the subject matter. Not all conventional science is wrong. LOL I was once scientist too, but dealt with a pigment dispersing factor in insects that eventually led to the 2017 nobel prize in biology for biological clocks for others. I was forced to quit because I was starving and not being treated very well.

 

[M118LR]

I do have to agree with you on your criticisms of archeologists and historians. Especially the historians. In such a debate I would want to closely review the data and also look at different reviews on the subject matter. Not all conventional science is wrong. LOL I was once scientist too, but dealt with a pigment dispersing factor in insects that eventually led to the 2017 nobel prize in biology for biological clocks for others. I was forced to quit because I was starving and not being treated very well.

Inquiring minds need not starve. There are other venues to feed the Family while still tickling the curiosity of a inquisitive mind. What you do need not define who you are, yet sometimes who you are defines your Selected Profession and allows you to quire those questions of an inquisitive mind? JMHO.

My Profession matched my unique skillset, while my inquisitive mind searched for other answers. Yet I was able to provide for the Family Unit. Balance Ying/Yang is so hard to obtain. JMHO.

 

[FrommerStop]

Inquiring minds need not starve.

If your paycheck is small one is forced to look for other venues of employment. The less your are paid, the worse you are treated. Instead of a Nobel prize being given to a local university it went elsewhere when I left. My boss wanted to be a University Dean and really missed the most important thing that a scientist can do professionally. Others got the full credit and of course the original research was cited in the references of published papers as it is proper. But not the same as winning a nobel prizel

 

[Carl]

Success in business and the attainment of wealth. While others squandered thier wealth, the miserly spent only pennies frugally. If you want to purchase the best tasting cigar at the lowest price look no further than a Israeli friend. When it comes to bang for the buck Yiddish folk corner the market. Frugality is considered a strength within the Jewish Community. JMHO.

So they were disliked throughout history because of the oligarchs, moneychangers, the manipulation of national currencies and stock exchange not to mention destructive marxist political manipulation in Europe. Media manipulation has also been mentioned quite a bit.Thats just scratching the surface of the criticism they face historically. Some would even suggest that these practices are still alive and strong. Im sure that these criticisms should be aimed at the top elite and not the masses though, if true.

 

[FrommerStop]

So they were disliked throughout history because of the oligarchs, moneychangers, the manipulation of national currencies and stock exchange not to mention destructive marxist political manipulation in Europe. Media manipulation has also been mentioned quite a bit.Thats just scratching the surface of the criticism they face historically. Some would even suggest that these practices are still alive and strong. Im sure that these criticisms are aimed at the top elite and not the masses though.

In Christian Europe they were primarily not liked due to religious reasons. Their primary killers were christians. Often a ruler would invite them in to stimulate the economy. Then borrow money from Jewish money lenders. Start an antisemitic surge from population and with jews driven out, no one had to pay back any loans. Jews were allowed to charged interest, but not Christians in catholic europe prior to prostestants.

Jews charged with death of Jesus:
Jewish deicide is a historic belief, originally formalised as a theological position in early Christian times, which claimed that the Jewish people were collectively responsible for the death of Jesus.[1] The charge was made as early as Justin Martyr and Melito of Sardis.[2] In time, the anti-Judaic accusation that the Jews were Christ-killers fed into Christian antisemitism,[3] and the slur proliferated inciting mobs to use it as a pretext for violence against Jews, contributing to many centuries of pogroms, the murder of Jews during the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition and the Holocaust.[4]

They often spoke a different language and were prohibited in places from owning land and banned from many professions and in towns lived in their own section of town. They were prior to the issue of Zionists setting in what is Israel better treated by Muslims most of the time than was case with Christians. Now that is all reversed. Most of the jews in the USA today were driven out of the Russian empire prior to WWI by Czarist decrees and what were called Pogroms.

noun
noun: pogrom; plural noun: pogroms

1. an organized massacre of a particular ethnic group, in particular that of Jewish people in Russia or eastern Europe.

 

[FrommerStop]

Even events in the mountains of Ethiopia can alter the Palestine Israeli conflict. Egypt is in a crisis over water since the Nile waters are less than they were and the Ethiopians are building a dam on it.
If the farms of millions of people dry up, perhaps the Egyptians try to divert the crisis by more war with Israel. No way to known

 

[wildrider666]

But why? What is the cause of this genocidal hate throughout the world?

I'm unqualified to give that answer since I don't have such beliefs. There are several different Jewish denominations that collectively are refered to as Judaism. Religious difference have led to conflict even among people with the same general ethnicity: the Irish Protestants (Church of England) vs Irish Catholics (Vatican) and Muslims between Shis and Sunniis are prime exampls of purely religous divides but gov alignment often adds to the disparity. What I assume and others have touched as causes for hatred of Jews can be easily identified. There is an extreme level of of envy/jealousy over their general success in business, wealth accumulation which allows them greater influence and/or power. Practicing Jews are ofthen easily identifiable by religious attire, buisness markings and their names. O'Malley's Pub, Goldburg's Jewelry: both project an ethnicty. Though in many cultures negotiating prices is very common and Arabs take great pride in getting the better end of any deal; the "Jew'd down" term persists. There are obviously rich, middle income and poor Jews but they are all collectively hated based on more successful Jews and that all to easily groups them under their common denominator: Judaism.

Germany was a place where Jews thrived, over 100K Served (3K Officers, 81 Field Rabbis) in the German military in WW1. Per the norm, Jewish business succeeded while the Post WW1 Versailles Treaty heavily burdened Germany and the populations economic divide made fostered envy/haterd against successful Jews because "they" could be "collectively identified and grouped together". Anti semitic sentiment raged after WW1 which included reasoning that Jews were responsible for the Terms of Germany's surrender and econimic troubles it caused. Hitler was antisemitic before then but his religious position fluctuated from Roman Catholic to atheist. Hitler channeled his and general hatred for Jews in building his popularity and rise to power. Two months after taking the Chancellery he enacted the Enabling Act which started his gov's formal persecutions of Jews.
We must comprehend the simple reason "behind" the hatred of Jewish business, wealth, influence and power to which mention of religous Judaism is more often then not: absent from the narrative. It is what Jews have representatively attained that others are envious/jealous off which manifests itself as hatred against the entire class of Jews with no distinction between non practicing ethnic Jews and the devout religious Jews. Clearly, a ethnic only Jew is not a religous threat to other religions or ethnicities other then the broad general "infidel" application towards all "non believers" which covers a large segment of the worlds population. A Jewish Homeland makes a convenient close target.

Though German genocide on Jews (and other undesirables) is well known and Russia which once had th larget population of Jews in the world, Russia committed genocide on Jew for the exact same non religious based reasons.

As mentioned by others, the mostly impoverished, undeveloped and barren Land provided by Treaty, only had multiple religious significance and some tourism before WWII, it was far less important than Mecca to the Muslims/Arabs who were more concerned with their post War recovery than a Minor enclave of Jews. That is until tbe flow of displaced Jews grew and they made the Land prosperous. Ah, the envy/jealousy thing once again fermented under the guise of broad religious differences.

I'm not naive to the pure religious fanaticism against the Jews, but its never broken down to Jews follow the Tora, Muslims follow the Koran and specific religious beliefs differences, same with Christian conflicting beliefs. Before "white supremacy" was so duluted to broad brush all caucasians, what reasons did they spew for their hatred of Jews? It shur wasnt how they Worshipped was it.

Disect the excuse for the hatred and the real reasons are clear.

 

[FrommerStop]

Germany was a place where Jews thrived, over 100K Served (3K Officers, 81 Field Rabbis) in the German military in WW1. ...............

You make a good point about how german jews were highly integrated into german society. Yes in the short period between wars Hitler was able to set up extermination camps for not only germany's jews, but also any jews that they could in the land that the german army invaded. Not all german's were for it of course, but it was quite dangerous to try to do anything about it. Some did risk their lives to save jews.

The Danish King did not wear the star of david, but he and other danes did stand by their jewish fellow citizens and got away with it because the germans were less heavy handed with the danes.

The legend conveys an important historical truth, however: both the King and the majority of the Danish people stood by their Jewish citizens and were instrumental in saving almost all of them from Nazi persecution and death

I will concede that religion is often the excuse to justify horrible behavior, but there are often other drivers behind it.