Israel / Palestinian conflict

[FrommerStop]

DUDE...

Now Your Talking

Frankly,,,I'd like to see 95% of ALL foreign aid Ended...Including Israel
All Welfare for Illegals Ended.
NO MORE dual citizenship Members in Congress.
Only America First Members in Congress..........ie.. No One who is for the chinese communist party ,russians or Ukranians,,ect... I have NO problem with Patriots of any other country doing what is best for THEIR COUNTRY.
USa Not doing regime changes in other countries ..ie propping up Dictators with Our Money,,,ie foreign aide..

Leave Israel alone... imo... There would be a bloodbath....and imo Israel would grow even larger over there..maybe ,,maybe not.

Making Friends and Allies??? ehhhhhhhhhhhh..... Only IF ,When, They Pay their own way......... Work together? Protect ,,IF our Friend..? sure... PAY THEM TO BE OUR MERCENARIES AND PROXIES...NOFUKNWAYanymore.

sick of seeing Large countries..Bribing Dictators in small countries to wage war for us against Larger Enemies via their proxies...SUX,,SUX,,SUX

I can not argue with that. We need to stop squandering our resources overseas. If we are going to mis-spend our wealth at least do it here.
We have enough oil and gas for our needs last I heard and so stay out of the middle east. If western europe will not defend themselves let their women learn conversational russian.

 

[wildrider666]

Sending U.S. funds to the Palestinians is no different then sending funds/aid to Somali. Everybody knows damn well the vast majority of of funds/aid ends up in the hands of power who "actually control" the Country, Territory or Land. Corruption, skimming, diversion or by force it boils down to very little goes where the U.S. intends it to go.

Refresh recent and past history, Muslim Sects will bestow all the horrors they can on other muslims just because of slight differences in muslim beliefs. They kill each other as insignificantly as the would kill Jews and Christians, it's nothing new. Stronger countries have always used smaller ones or "groups" to do their dirty work, the U.S. is no different.

If the subject issue was about religion/ethnic/race and it actually was an intolerable issue to Arab/Muslim Countries: they would have mounted a larger coalition and won formal Wars and taken the Land long ago. All that oil money could have built several superior armies but they didn't. Their Oil has been used as leverage on countries to sway support away from Israel. Israel did build a great military and continues to do so; the suspicion that they have Nukes and tested them: stands as a major deterrent too. Several countries that opposed Israel (all reasons & conflict) have changed positions finding peace more profitable and less costly in military expenditures.

Is the subject reason about the Land itself? No, thats just something to bitch about to the current possessor/gov. Hardly a unique issue s the Land has been controlled by more different hands than a porn mag at a FOB. Lol. The apparent longest "custodian" through out documented history is Egypt. It's note worthy that Egypt fought Israel and lost the Gaza Strip. Jordan fought and lost the West Bank. Both of those countries are currently at peace with Israel. Odd there was no "Palestinian push back" against the Egyptian or Jordanian masters. Religion falls behind a more unified title of "Arab Control" which sought to remove invaders like the Turks and then colonizers like the Brits and French. Back in 1917 there were attempts to create a National Jewish State and more specifically that Palestine was not and would never be under Arab Control per multiple Agreements. "Palestine" is also claimed as the land including Jordan but they don't launch rockets into Jordan do they? The Philistines/Palistine did not even exist under those terms from Roman times until after WWI. "Palistine" was resurected after WWI specifically to be the "New Israel" and both those nams in quotes were interchangeable in documents with Jewish preference for the latter taking precedence. The Arabs long hatred for Jews was amplified by "Not in my Neighborhood" mentality but they had given up the territory long before 1948 and knlw moves to create the Jewish State we well known back in 1916! So the only Arab option was for some other entity to make claims on what was to be Israel: from the centuries old (Roman times) grave, "Palestinians" claim to exist and want Land they never controlled as a Country "back". In persoective, this is like Vikings claiming ownership of North America.

The notion of Palestinian "Claims" of ownership of the disputed lands are unfounded when they have never had a sovereign Palestinian Country! Even the 1988 State of Palestine is legally disputed as was the PLO's 1974 State in Exile.

Let's ignore the above and focue on the physical conflict which rars its ugly head every 8 to 8 months. There's a recognized Palestinian Authority with jurisdiction over land that harbors and protects terrorists is being used to launch multiple types of attacks on a Sovereign County. Israel will do as it's always done with defensive and offensive attacks against the offending region, making such transgressions more painful every time. Let the chips fall where they may because the initiator was the first to kick the table.

 

[edruken]

The palestine claim of ownership steers from the fact they have been living there before the british started dropping the heavily armed settlers and pretty much created israel of thin air, a jewish state not having existed since roman armies destroyed it. So by that metric israel has no more legitimacy than me raising a flag there and claiming the revival of the crusader states.

There were jews before that in the area, but the issue started when post ww2 when the european jewish settlers arrived. For palestinians it is a matter of such people coming and displacing them from where they have lived for generations. This very outburst of violence started when israel started the eviciton process of a traditionally arab neighborhood in jerusalem in order to "make room"

Israel traditionally has been known to displace the locals as much as they can to make way for their own people. This entire mess started when the new settlers arrived and displaced the local population. Also consider jerusalem is a sacred city to islam also and you have the perfect storm that until recently united a rather fractured arab world into launching several conventional wars against israel starting in 1948.

The palestinians feel they are under a foreign power that opresses and doesn't represent their interests. They don't give a squat about the british mandate and accords, they were living there for generations and suddenly someone comes and drives them out at gunpoint to settle down. Combine that with muslim fanaticism and you've got a conflict that will never end until there's a 2 state solution or one of the sides genocides the other.


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[Duckyou]

The palestine claim of ownership steers from the fact they have been living there before the british started dropping the heavily armed settlers and pretty much created israel of thin air, a jewish state not having existed since roman armies destroyed it. So by that metric israel has no more legitimacy than me raising a flag there and claiming the revival of the crusader states.

There were jews before that in the area, but the issue started when post ww2 when the european jewish settlers arrived. For palestinians it is a matter of such people coming and displacing them from where they have lived for generations. This very outburst of violence started when israel started the eviciton process of a traditionally arab neighborhood in jerusalem in order to "make room"

Israel traditionally has been known to displace the locals as much as they can to make way for their own people. This entire mess started when the new settlers arrived and displaced the local population. Also consider jerusalem is a sacred city to islam also and you have the perfect storm that until recently united a rather fractured arab world into launching several conventional wars against israel starting in 1948.

The palestinians feel they are under a foreign power that opresses and doesn't represent their interests. They don't give a squat about the british mandate and accords, they were living there for generations and suddenly someone comes and drives them out at gunpoint to settle down. Combine that with muslim fanaticism and you've got a conflict that will never end until there's a 2 state solution or one of the sides genocides the other.


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Two state solution was offered. Palestinians declined because they would not have free roam into Israel - and that would make them an island as Egypt & Jordan won’t let them in either.

They could have their own non-terrorist autonomous zone if they would stop all the Bull Shit.

 

[edruken]

Why would they accept the crumbs offered? Israel took the best land and most of the water access. Let's try to put it this way.

You and your family have been living on this farm for generations, it's not much, but it's your, you bury your dead here, you toil the fields and pretty much just mind your own busisness. For ages, the area has been under the control of different local governments, all require taxes but mostly leave you alone. Suddenly the last government in charge comes and says your farm is no longer yours, it's now to be for this other family based on the fact that 30 generations ago their ancestors dwelled there.

They come in heavily armed and with external support. They tell you to pack your shit and move to the bad half of the farm, they take control of the little shrine you pray in, access to the river and the graveyard. You try to resist but they are heavily armed and have vicious hounds. You commit arson, fight, etc. Your neighbors try to help you but they are repelled despite vicious fighting. In the end, your neighboors despite being on your side start having working relationships with the new owners or making peace at the behest of the local politicians. Meanwhile the new owners take more and more of your half under security pretenses or to build a new barn or a guesthouse. Suddenly they offer to sign an accord and legalize whatever is left you control into the property registry. No hard feelings?

Idk, I'd be pretty pissed if that happened to me. Combine it with islam and voila. It's not a white and black issue of israel good, arabs bad.


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[FrommerStop]

........

If the subject issue was about religion/ethnic/race and it actually was an intolerable issue to Arab/Muslim Countries: they would have mounted a larger coalition and won formal Wars and taken the Land long ago. All that oil money could have built several superior armies but they didn't. Their Oil has been used as leverage on countries to sway support away from Israel. Israel did build a great military and continues to do so; the suspicion that they have Nukes and tested them: stands as a major deterrent too. Several countries that opposed Israel (all reasons & conflict) have changed positions finding peace more profitable and less costly in military expenditures.

...

I will add one thing to the above and that is the issue of Israel is used to divert the citizens of surrounding countries from looking at their true oppressors and that is their own corrupt governments.

 

[ccc]

Why would they accept the crumbs offered? Israel took the best land and most of the water access. Let's try to put it this way.

You and your family have been living on this farm for generations, it's not much, but it's your, you bury your dead here, you toil the fields and pretty much just mind your own busisness. For ages, the area has been under the control of different local governments, all require taxes but mostly leave you alone. Suddenly the last government in charge comes and says your farm is no longer yours, it's now to be for this other family based on the fact that 30 generations ago their ancestors dwelled there.

They come in heavily armed and with external support. They tell you to pack your shit and move to the bad half of the farm, they take control of the little shrine you pray in, access to the river and the graveyard. You try to resist but they are heavily armed and have vicious hounds. You commit arson, fight, etc. Your neighbors try to help you but they are repelled despite vicious fighting. In the end, your neighboors despite being on your side start having working relationships with the new owners or making peace at the behest of the local politicians. Meanwhile the new owners take more and more of your half under security pretenses or to build a new barn or a guesthouse. Suddenly they offer to sign an accord and legalize whatever is left you control into the property registry. No hard feelings?

Idk, I'd be pretty pissed if that happened to me. Combine it with islam and voila. It's not a white and black issue of israel good, arabs bad.


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Even the feared Apaches gave up and faded away and accepted what the white man gave him. The Palestinians can continue to lash out several times a year, they will ALWAYS end up with the most dead and most of their already shitty towns left in ruin, and Israel gets much needed target practice, honestly it’s a win win. The Palestinians will NEVER win and Israel will always be victorious. And since the Palestinians have been doing this for eon’s and will continue to do so, they must be a glutton for punishment.

 

[Duckyou]

Public service announcement - see new rules posted before continuing further

 

[HayesGreener]

Why would they accept the crumbs offered? Israel took the best land and most of the water access. Let's try to put it this way.

You and your family have been living on this farm for generations, it's not much, but it's your, you bury your dead here, you toil the fields and pretty much just mind your own busisness. For ages, the area has been under the control of different local governments, all require taxes but mostly leave you alone. Suddenly the last government in charge comes and says your farm is no longer yours, it's now to be for this other family based on the fact that 30 generations ago their ancestors dwelled there.

They come in heavily armed and with external support. They tell you to pack your shit and move to the bad half of the farm, they take control of the little shrine you pray in, access to the river and the graveyard. You try to resist but they are heavily armed and have vicious hounds. You commit arson, fight, etc. Your neighbors try to help you but they are repelled despite vicious fighting. In the end, your neighboors despite being on your side start having working relationships with the new owners or making peace at the behest of the local politicians. Meanwhile the new owners take more and more of your half under security pretenses or to build a new barn or a guesthouse. Suddenly they offer to sign an accord and legalize whatever is left you control into the property registry. No hard feelings?

Idk, I'd be pretty pissed if that happened to me. Combine it with islam and voila. It's not a white and black issue of israel good, arabs bad.


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[ccc]

Public service announcement - see new rules posted before continuing further

I honestly haven’t seen anything that violates that here yet. I could be wrong

 

[HayesGreener]

You are right! We should give the U.S. back to the Indians while we are at it. (TIC)

 

[FrommerStop]

I honestly haven’t seen anything that violates that here yet. I could be wrong

This thread was specifically mentioned in the new guidelines.

 

[ccc]

This thread was specifically mentioned in the new guidelines.

Oh damn, hell I guess I don’t know what offensive is then, I considered this a conversation

 

[edruken]

Tbh this has been pretty civil so far considering the topic, but fine, cease fire it is.

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[polebarn]

How can a discussion about a conflict rooted in politics and religion continue by leaving them out?

 

[ccc]

How can a discussion about a conflict rooted in politics and religion continue by leaving them out?

I totally agree lol but rules are rules, I care about guns and using this forum more than I do friendly banter over a subject like this, so I will comply.

 

[polebarn]

I totally agree lol but rules are rules, I care about guns and using this forum more than I do friendly banter over a subject like this, so I will comply.

As do I. I hadn’t even posted in this thread but that part escapes logic. 2 cents spent.

 

[fl57caveman]

i wasn't planning on posting in this thread, as my views are rather medieval...i would most likely violate the new rules.

medieval: Informal. extremely old-fashioned; primitive.


carry on

 

[PaulT]

Two state solution was offered. Palestinians declined because they would not have free roam into Israel - and that would make them an island as Egypt & Jordan won’t let them in either.

They could have their own non-terrorist autonomous zone if they would stop all the Bull Shit.

fact

 

[wildrider666]

It's reported that three rockets were launched toward Israel from Syrian territory which has long had Iranian provided rockets and operators. The missiles fell well short.

Its also widely reported that an IDF Officer told a reporter the IDF ground forces "entered" Gaza on the condition that the info would remain "Confidential and unreported". Of course, the reporter leaked it to another reporter who ran the Story in seconds so she could then run hers referencing the "other Source" and other reporters followed suit and the report flowed to the World. The IDF knew damn well it would leak immediately, be picked up by Hamas and their leadership and followers would run into their "Secret Tunnels". The IDF had pre-planned air and artillery strikes dialed in and in short order unleashed all hell on the tunnel network. Two hours after the misinformation was passed that same Officer made a "correction" that ground forces were firing into Gaza but didn't enter, yet. The Media is crying foul that they were manipulated and in part duped into supporting the Tunnel attacks on poor terrorists. Odd how quickly they ignore the confidential "misrepresented" tactical information was deliberately Leaked. The initial reporter had no integrety (probably well known), so its not that the IDF put out bait, its that the Leak made the media trigger a very effective and deadly trap. Well played IDF!