Braced Pistols to become SBR's starting in December?

[Krazy1]

This is a very interesting take on it, gives me hope!!

 

[72sofsme]

I'm curious how these MCK Kits will fall into this?

https://caagearup.com/products/mcks-ronis/mck-micro-conversion-kit/

 

[Jevaughn]

I'm curious how these MCK Kits will fall into this?

https://caagearup.com/products/mcks-ronis/mck-micro-conversion-kit/

I was kinda wondering the same thing. If I had to guess, they'll go into the same category. A brace will basically just be considered a stock. If put on a pistol, it becomes an SBR. It's got nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with disarming the people.

 

[Krazy1]

So if I buy a multiuse lower, it was never assigned to a gun so to speak. Then is it up to me to register it if I use it in a pistol with a brace configuration? Once I do that, that lower will always be assigned as a SBR after?

 

[Snake-Eyes]

So if I buy a multiuse lower, it was never assigned to a gun so to speak. Then is it up to me to register it if I use it in a pistol with a brace configuration? Once I do that, that lower will always be assigned as a SBR after?

There is no formal “registry”... yet.

The lower is logged as “other” when processed to you from the FFL. Even if you bought it “built” with a stock (not brace) as a “complete lower”. Since no upper attached, it wasn’t ‘born’ as a complete rifle or pistol.

Most of us recommend you build it as a pistol first, then it can go from pistol to rifle and back.
(Idiotic rules, yes).

If you decide to follow these latest confusingly retarded aft memorandums in December and Form-1 your lower as an SBR with a brace, then sure, you would then have to treat it as an SBR, with all associated headaches.

 

[Krazy1]

There is no formal “registry”... yet.

The lower is logged as “other” when processed to you from the FFL. Even if you bought it “built” with a stock (not brace) as a “complete lower”. Since no upper attached, it wasn’t ‘born’ as a complete rifle or pistol.

Most of us recommend you build it as a pistol first, then it can go from pistol to rifle and back.
(Idiotic rules, yes).

If you decide to follow these latest confusingly retarded aft memorandums in December and Form-1 your lower as an SBR with a brace, then sure, you would then have to treat it as an SBR, with all associated headaches.

Thanks for this!! This is what I thought. I'm going to hold out until I got to register if at all. As soon as the rule rolls out the lawsuits will flood the courts. The theory is that the ATF has no power to make laws, only congress. The SCOTUS just slapped the EPA for the same type thing.

 

[Hinote]

If you buy a complete lower with a stock on it from Colt or Aero it's transferred as a rifle and therefore will always be a rifle. If it's sold with a brace it's transferred as a pistol. If it's sold with just the buffer tube and no brace or stock it's transferred as a firearm and can be made into whatever you want.

 

[DAS HUGH!]

Time for another headscratcher, it's legal to make a MG into a SBR without any extra paperwork!

 

[Daezee]

Time for another headscratcher, it's legal to make a MG into a SBR without any extra paperwork!

Yes. MG registration trumps barrel length. Changing barrel length does not change the MG designation.

Example: Back in the day I bought a M16 stripped lower (for the curious, I paid $1500 and that included the A1 stock and parts, A1 upper 20" barreled receiver and all internal parts). It was papered on the Form 4 as a MG with the barrel and overall lengths listed as Not Applicable. Shortly thereafter, the stock and barrel were attached, I wrote ATF to notify them. ATF wrote back that the record had been updated to reflect it was no longer just a receiver. I keep the ATF letter with the original Form 4, as the Form 4 shows it as just a MG receiver. I routinely swap barreled uppers depending upon what I want to shoot, and since they are not PERMANENT changes, there is no requirement to notify ATF of the temporary changes.

 

[stage20]

If you buy a complete lower with a stock on it from Colt or Aero it's transferred as a rifle and therefore will always be a rifle. If it's sold with a brace it's transferred as a pistol. If it's sold with just the buffer tube and no brace or stock it's transferred as a firearm and can be made into whatever you want.

If my FFL did this I would never use them again. It's incomplete. It's not a pistol or a rifle, regardless of what's attached on the buffer at that point.

 

[Hinote]

Another fun fact. If you have a Colt lower receiver manufactured after 2016 (I think that's the cutoff) it's a rifle because Colt only sent out complete rifle lowers after that year. So if you have a short Colt with a brace on it you better check your dates to stay out of trouble.

 

[Hinote]

It's not the FFL. It's the manufacturer.

 

[stage20]

It's not the FFL. It's the manufacturer.

Show me. The manufacturer does not fill out the 4473

 

[Hinote]

They manufactured a firearm and sold it. They either manufactured a rifle a pistol or a firearm/other.

 

[Hinote]

Look at their websites. They say complete rifle or pistol lower. Some even have a disclaimer warning you as such.

 

[Jevaughn]

You have to worry about the FFL and the Manufacturer paperwork associated with your serial number as to whether it's a pistol or rifle. With the AFT going door to door these days over FRT's, 'Keycards', and solvent traps, I half expect them to go door to door searching for AR's that are in their books as pistols just to make sure that people are 'compliant'.

 

[DAS HUGH!]

Yes. MG registration trumps barrel length. Changing barrel length does not change the MG designation.

Example: Back in the day I bought a M16 stripped lower (for the curious, I paid $1500 and that included the A1 stock and parts, A1 upper 20" barreled receiver and all internal parts). It was papered on the Form 4 as a MG with the barrel and overall lengths listed as Not Applicable. Shortly thereafter, the stock and barrel were attached, I wrote ATF to notify them. ATF wrote back that the record had been updated to reflect it was no longer just a receiver. I keep the ATF letter with the original Form 4, as the Form 4 shows it as just a MG receiver. I routinely swap barreled uppers depending upon what I want to shoot, and since they are not PERMANENT changes, there is no requirement to notify ATF of the temporary changes.

Yeah to me that's crazy. They supposedly make us register SBRs because it makes the ordinary rifle more deadly and easier to conceal. The only way to make that even more true according to them is for you to have a SBR'rd MG lol. That sounds way more scary. They're fine with you making a MG super short but not a semi auto rifle/pistol. Oh hell no don't do that lmao.

They also don't want you to be more more accurate with that scary semi auto pistol/rifle by putting forgrips on it. But!!.. it's ok if it's a MG tho. Put all ya want on those lol.

I just hope this was a legal loophole they forgot to stitch shut. Then they just acted like they meant to write it all this way and pretended it was on purpose. It makes zero sense. Neither do the rest of the laws tho either lol

 

[gunguy#3453]

why do we just take this shit? I’m a 20 something year old guy, all I have seen in the gun community is whining. We whine about it saying “shall not be infringed” all the time. Everything time they pull this crap, gun people get really mad and don’t do a thing. Maybe they switch a vote or call a congressman a time or two. But that’s all, we just yell a lot and that’s it. Look at Waco and Ruby Ridge, gun owners just stood and watched. Like come on, fed agents were killing our fellow US citizens and y’all at the time just watched. Notice not to long after those events the AWB passed, and still y’all did nothing. Like everyone agrees this is overreach, yet everyone is planning to comply. With some hope in the future that a court will overturned this decision??? Maybe I’m young and dumb, but at some point we have to make a stand. We can’t just hope that courts will rule our way forever.

 

[Raven]

But that’s all, we just yell a lot and that’s it

You want to invoke memories of Waco. All of us yelling a lot got that SOB who killed or was at the very least an accessory to killing at Waco kicked out of the running for ATF Director, when he was already a shoe in. That's only one example. Just saying... squeaky wheel gets the grease, and words work. Read up on the NRA-ILA and their words. The ILA, their lawyers and words, is the one thing associated with the NRA that I will support, until they get rid of Wayne LaPierre. Words... yelling... you want to do anything more than that, better make sure it's legal first or else even suggesting to do it in words can be federal time

 

[DAS HUGH!]

why do we just take this shit? I’m a 20 something year old guy, all I have seen in the gun community is whining. We whine about it saying “shall not be infringed” all the time. Everything time they pull this crap, gun people get really mad and don’t do a thing. Maybe they switch a vote or call a congressman a time or two. But that’s all, we just yell a lot and that’s it. Look at Waco and Ruby Ridge, gun owners just stood and watched. Like come on, fed agents were killing our fellow US citizens and y’all at the time just watched. Notice not to long after those events the AWB passed, and still y’all did nothing. Like everyone agrees this is overreach, yet everyone is planning to comply. With some hope in the future that a court will overturned this decision??? Maybe I’m young and dumb, but at some point we have to make a stand. We can’t just hope that courts will rule our way forever.

It kind of reminds me how a frog don't know it's boiling if you heat the water slow enough. Many of the older gun guys saw this happen slowly over time. Younger newer gun guys like you me and others walk into this and get hit with it all at once. Then think wtfffff??? Lol. I'm in my 40s and most all this stuff was law long before I got into guns. So I can relate with how overwhelming it is.
Those who watched at Ruby Ridge and Waco etc was actively being lied to at the time also. The ATF had just gotten to be a big thing then and no one saw stuff like that before. They was being told they was cults and terrorists. It took time for the truth to get out. At the time I think many wanted to believe the Government wouldn't be that way and wouldn't flat out lie to them etc.
Long story short is here we are now. A mix of new and old. Hopefully we all now can agree enough is enough. As far as myself I am legal and have complied. All my items are legal too. If they want to change that, we'll they're free to do so. I may take a cuff off just to be left alone but that's about it for me. I think it's good to have new blood in the herd with a good new perspective on how silly Its all gotten to be. If we all stick to our guns, literally lol... they can do whatever they want but it just won't matter. All these laws rely on self policing and vollentary regulations mostly to work. Without that it falls apart. That's what happened during the prohibition. People just quit complying. It will happen again. They simply can arrest everyone. It only works if people play along