Braced Pistols to become SBR's starting in December?

[Ric-san]

So besides putting a 16” barrel on a AR pistol, what’s a workaround…?

Personally while I love the idea, I had a feeling something like this would happen, so I never built/bought one.

 

[stage20]

why do we just take this shit? I’m a 20 something year old guy, all I have seen in the gun community is whining. We whine about it saying “shall not be infringed” all the time. Everything time they pull this crap, gun people get really mad and don’t do a thing. Maybe they switch a vote or call a congressman a time or two. But that’s all, we just yell a lot and that’s it. Look at Waco and Ruby Ridge, gun owners just stood and watched. Like come on, fed agents were killing our fellow US citizens and y’all at the time just watched. Notice not to long after those events the AWB passed, and still y’all did nothing. Like everyone agrees this is overreach, yet everyone is planning to comply. With some hope in the future that a court will overturned this decision??? Maybe I’m young and dumb, but at some point we have to make a stand. We can’t just hope that courts will rule our way forever.

You make a stand. See how far that gets you.
We as a whole have too much to lose by doing anything. It's like there is some problem at your neighbors house but you're not getting involved because you know the outcome. It's not worth taking a stand at this point. There will be a time. On the other side of it, these fools burn and loot because they have no fear or cares. Jail or death may be a better life for them, and if not they have a new TV and a pair of sneakers. I don't want my life to be that. Plus there isn't anything you can do to them because you'll be the one in the slammer. It's just how it is. I hate it as much as you do.

 

[Longtooth]

why do we just take this shit? I’m a 20 something year old guy, all I have seen in the gun community is whining. We whine about it saying “shall not be infringed” all the time. Everything time they pull this crap, gun people get really mad and don’t do a thing. Maybe they switch a vote or call a congressman a time or two. But that’s all, we just yell a lot and that’s it. Look at Waco and Ruby Ridge, gun owners just stood and watched. Like come on, fed agents were killing our fellow US citizens and y’all at the time just watched. Notice not to long after those events the AWB passed, and still y’all did nothing. Like everyone agrees this is overreach, yet everyone is planning to comply. With some hope in the future that a court will overturned this decision??? Maybe I’m young and dumb, but at some point we have to make a stand. We can’t just hope that courts will rule our way forever.

Voting and getting behind pro 2a organizations (My choices are FPC, Defender Coffee and GOA - FPC is a little sketchy in my book now though) is in my opinion the best way to influence the culture.

Its a very vocal minority are getting Drag time story hour in libraries. Those of us with real jobs are too busy to care until its in our faces. We need to be just as vocal and adamant.
1. Call Reps
2. Email Reps
3. Local level is most critical
4. Local LE is only as good as the local community.

Be informed - Read up on what reps are actually voting on - not what they say, but what they do, and who money goes to/ from.

Im young and have a family that I want to make sure has the same quality of life/ standard of living I had growing up. The next generation is what we live for, and I'm not going to quit or give up.

"Making a Stand" can happen many ways and only the young look forward to violence. I don't know you and I'm not downing your point of view, but try to think about winning harts and minds as the priority over kinetic action - There are no winners once that happens.

Just my .02

 

[Snake-Eyes]

 

[DAS HUGH!]

I'm about as politically tone deaf as possible, especially when it comes to local elections. It would be cool if someone who's in the know of it all can make a post here someplace listing who all is running and what merits there running on. Then break down who they think is best for the 2A. Heck maybe even invite some here for some local Q&A. it would be a great way for them to reach voters, especially if they plan to be running on a pro 2A promise. The only politics I have time for is basically who's running for president, and left or right basics. So yeah maybe we can reach out here and make some changes and have our concerns heard. Because I don't know about yall but I'd vote for a platypus in a tuxedo at this point if he promises he's pro 2A and backs it up lol

Local politics may eventually be one of out last hopes in the long run. The blue states and cities have laid the groundwork on how to pick and choose what laws they wish to follow. They've even decided to totally ignore federal agencies such as ICE. If we can get at least state governors that can assure us they will do the same bit in reverse for us that will be at the very least a safety net later. Because if they can ignore ICE, dammit we can ignore the AFT lol. Texas is making waves in this manner. They're taking the taxation of suppressors to the courts. I haven't followed the case but they did come out and say they would allow cans to be bought, made and sold within thier state legal. The way the law works is the AFT is only "supposed" to be able to tax "interstate" commerce. Much like how they do with cigarettes and alcohol. Both of those tho you can make and consume tax free so long as it's for personal use and don't cross state lines. How they got into regulating gun types and stuff is a mystery to me. I'm sorta rambling again but yeah, let's see if we can talk to some of them

 

[Longtooth]

I'm about as politically tone deaf as possible, especially when it comes to local elections. It would be cool if someone who's in the know of it all can make a post here someplace listing who all is running and what merits there running on. Then break down who they think is best for the 2A. Heck maybe even invite some here for some local Q&A. it would be a great way for them to reach voters, especially if they plan to be running on a pro 2A promise. The only politics I have time for is basically who's running for president, and left or right basics. So yeah maybe we can reach out here and make some changes and have our concerns heard. Because I don't know about yall but I'd vote for a platypus in a tuxedo at this point if he promises he's pro 2A and backs it up lol

Local politics may eventually be one of out last hopes in the long run. The blue states and cities have laid the groundwork on how to pick and choose what laws they wish to follow. They've even decided to totally ignore federal agencies such as ICE. If we can get at least state governors that can assure us they will do the same bit in reverse for us that will be at the very least a safety net later. Because if they can ignore ICE, dammit we can ignore the AFT lol. Texas is making waves in this manner. They're taking the taxation of suppressors to the courts. I haven't followed the case but they did come out and say they would allow cans to be bought, made and sold within thier state legal. The way the law works is the AFT is only "supposed" to be able to tax "interstate" commerce. Much like how they do with cigarettes and alcohol. Both of those tho you can make and consume tax free so long as it's for personal use and don't cross state lines. How they got into regulating gun types and stuff is a mystery to me. I'm sorta rambling again but yeah, let's see if we can talk to some of them

I need some untaxed Florida made suppressors and cigars whenever that becomes a thing. lol

 

[.22 cents]

I really encourage you guys to look into what Law of the Land and Common Law are. Also what Admiralty Maritime Law are. Long story short Law of the Land like the Constitution applies to the living free man John of the family Doe and goes something like if there is no victim no crime is committed. No killing, harm, defrauding, breach of verbal or written contract, theft. Stuff like that are the only true laws.

The rest is garbage and called Admiralty Maritime Law used to control the plebians, the sheeple by threats and gaining their compliance no different than mafia tactics. That shit applies to something called a LEGAL FICTION that us retarded slaves think are us and comply to. All the ones you vote for and worship know this. Your Mast-ers on top of your ship.

They use a language called LEGALESE to scare the shit outa you and have you unknowingly give up your rights to a name spelled in all CAPS that was assigned to you at birth. That legal fiction is the one they tax and fine and threaten to jail with their stupid threats. It doesn’t apply to the living man but those who have no clue to their slavery will say the wrong shit and end up serving time for this legal fiction in all CAPITALS. Just as a corporation is spelled in all CAPITALS so is the legal fiction spelled that way on your SS card JOHN DOE and on your tombstone when your slavery is done. That legal fiction is taxed and you pay for it. Your slavery is then paying for it and then traded on the market as US Treasury Bonds. What society do we live in? Its called CAPITALIST for a reason.

There are slaves and freemen. Slaves comply because they don’t know theyre slaves and dont comprehend that attaching a piece of plastic to something is not a crime. Please dont say you “understand” me or anyone because it’s LEGALESE a language they use to trick people. Say comprehend. Understand means to stand under authority and give up sovereignty. So when a cop or judge says “do you understand” …. Well you have the right to remain silent. When they yell “all rise” and you stand up for a judge 3 tiers above you, what do you think your conveying in the court? Yeah understanding.

I can go on forever about Maritime Law and LEGALESE how they consider us ships (citizen-ships) and give us an SS number at berth from a berth canal by a dock-tor, we work for cache and mon-eye (one) or current-sea. Keep our cache in a bank like a river. If we go negative we are drowning in depth. They can freeze our assets and if they boat is taking on water and no longer producing for them it needs someone to bail them out a BAIL-BONDS man. Register means to forfeit to authority. Like Regent or Regency. Thats why the state has you register everything and you pay fees to rent it. Sad thing is berth registration yeah kids belong to the state by unknowing mother and father.. but the pair can rent them. Parents. Do you own your house and land if youre being taxed or are you in a pledge agreement til death called mort-gage. Like mortal or mortician. Anyway just saying do your research. These are just threats and for those who dont know these truths yeah you can put yourself into deep shit by vouching for a strawman.

Ill die free whether tomorrow or when im 100 and chained in a cell lol ill still be free. Living free is the goal, dying free is the blessing. Many have their minds chained to a rock. Sorry for the long post. Crazy guy out!

 

[72sofsme]

Very serious discussion all around here. So, where to begin? I have been in rather lengthy discussions with my coworkers about this HOT topic mostly out of the fact that we all seem to share a common interest in firearms. I wanted to share some of the decision matrices we are using to come to our own conclusions about what to do about this potential event that may impact us as owners and bearers of our fundamental rights.

First off is the importance of the issue and the impact it will have on us. Potentially this will lead to same legal issues with any select-fire/machine gun regulations for any one who possesses these items.

1) So, with the legal implications laid out there is the first of many decisions to be made: [decision step 1, get rid of firearm that are in question or keep]. Getting rid of the articles that make a firearm a "pistol with a brace" is an easy step but to many it is a step that involves money, or something that was already invested in. If the decision is made to get rid of the said articles that make it a "pistol with a brace" then its a legal step that anyone can do without any paperwork or getting into trouble, its a legal transition. But if the decision is made to keep in a pistol form with a brace, the decision is different.

2) Keeping the firearm and making this into an SBR [decision step 2] to satisfy the pending legal requirement by the ATF. This step is unique in that this is the first time since WWII that the Government will offer a AMNESTY period. The benefit for anyone choosing to go this route is that you will now be the owner of an SBR and will have paid $0.00 for it! This is enticing for many, I certainly am looking at it from this aspect (though I don't own or possess anything to qualify at the time of this writing). This provides several positive aspects in that one can own or get their hands on an SBR for free (Tax Stamp) and enjoy the use of said items legally of their own choosing.
The draw backs are equally as many but offer surprises that many who are considering this route may not know about. As stated in the videos that opened this very thread, the transport of such a firearm is RESTRICTED and one who want to travel with it can only do so by filing a request with the ATF in advance (I think 30 days...), and will not be able to sell the firearm through any normal means but will have to transfer the firearm through a properly licensed dealer. This includes upon death unless there is a Trust established prior and the firearm is part of the trust established, I highly recommend hiring a lawyer at that point to establish one [should be an initial decision point]. The other issue that few know about is the ATF can at any time they want, inspect the firearm that is now an SRB. This would potentially create an open invitation into your home to the ATF, and there is nothing anyone can do to stop that unless you surrender the firearm to the ATF or sell through a licensed dealer. Long story short, could be a nasty can of worms to the unsuspecting person.

3) I will say this only once in case anyone may have the thought ... any illegal activity is at your own peril. You are your own master of your own destiny and if you choose to do whatever and its illegal, just remember that ignorance of the law is not a defense.

4) Last note as I sit on the fence here an see how it shakes out ... there are some real advantages to owning an SBR and this is an incredible opportunity to get one, rather unique time to get it and the manner in which you will get it. But just know the potential outcomes of this decision as you go about your journey.

If any of this information is wrong, I blame Jim!

 

[DAS HUGH!]

To me a "SBR" is geared for use as a truckgun. It makes me nervous enough to leave a regular rifle locked in my car/truck. I can't imagine the headache of having a NFA item like that locked up in mine at all times. I've wondered what happens if you have one in there and a thief breaks your window and steals it. Will the police have to then charge you potentially for not having it in multiple layers of security? What level of security do they require for cars? I hear for just the house they want to see it kept in a safe, and only one person (the owner or those on a trust) having access to it only. Then what if that thief then kills 50 people? Seems like a sticky situation to find yourself in. If it's just a regular rifle I can see the news and media not caring as much and treating it as they should, which is a robbery with you being the victim. (So long as the car was locked and youre not being irresponsible.) If it's a NFA item with the same level of phobia as a MG I can see it becoming a feild day. Just a thought I've had. I guess you'd have to buy a fancy truck safe. Even then they can still just take your whole car lol. So many reasons why I just want to avoid it all myself.

 

[.22 cents]

Them saying a brace makes a pistol more deadly and pushing to get rid of them but allowing all to get a free NFA stamp makes no sense. Unless registration/ register means forfeiting property to regals like it did before they told us it was just putting our name on a permission list. This might be what leads to confiscation. Signing over property to authority and paying to rent it or having something they all of a sudden said was a no no. The problem was never about what they allow us to do. The problem is always what we allow them to do to us. Just my .22 cents. No step on snek

 

[Daezee]

Very serious discussion all around here. So, where to begin? I have been in rather lengthy discussions with my coworkers about this HOT topic mostly out of the fact that we all seem to share a common interest in firearms. I wanted to share some of the decision matrices we are using to come to our own conclusions about what to do about this potential event that may impact us as owners and bearers of our fundamental rights.

First off is the importance of the issue and the impact it will have on us. Potentially this will lead to same legal issues with any select-fire/machine gun regulations for any one who possesses these items.

1) So, with the legal implications laid out there is the first of many decisions to be made: [decision step 1, get rid of firearm that are in question or keep]. Getting rid of the articles that make a firearm a "pistol with a brace" is an easy step but to many it is a step that involves money, or something that was already invested in. If the decision is made to get rid of the said articles that make it a "pistol with a brace" then its a legal step that anyone can do without any paperwork or getting into trouble, its a legal transition. But if the decision is made to keep in a pistol form with a brace, the decision is different.

2) Keeping the firearm and making this into an SBR [decision step 2] to satisfy the pending legal requirement by the ATF. This step is unique in that this is the first time since WWII that the Government will offer a AMNESTY period. The benefit for anyone choosing to go this route is that you will now be the owner of an SBR and will have paid $0.00 for it! This is enticing for many, I certainly am looking at it from this aspect (though I don't own or possess anything to qualify at the time of this writing). This provides several positive aspects in that one can own or get their hands on an SBR for free (Tax Stamp) and enjoy the use of said items legally of their own choosing.
The draw backs are equally as many but offer surprises that many who are considering this route may not know about. As stated in the videos that opened this very thread, the transport of such a firearm is RESTRICTED and one who want to travel with it can only do so by filing a request with the ATF in advance (I think 30 days...), and will not be able to sell the firearm through any normal means but will have to transfer the firearm through a properly licensed dealer. This includes upon death unless there is a Trust established prior and the firearm is part of the trust established, I highly recommend hiring a lawyer at that point to establish one [should be an initial decision point]. The other issue that few know about is the ATF can at any time they want, inspect the firearm that is now an SRB. This would potentially create an open invitation into your home to the ATF, and there is nothing anyone can do to stop that unless you surrender the firearm to the ATF or sell through a licensed dealer. Long story short, could be a nasty can of worms to the unsuspecting person.

3) I will say this only once in case anyone may have the thought ... any illegal activity is at your own peril. You are your own master of your own destiny and if you choose to do whatever and its illegal, just remember that ignorance of the law is not a defense.

4) Last note as I sit on the fence here an see how it shakes out ... there are some real advantages to owning an SBR and this is an incredible opportunity to get one, rather unique time to get it and the manner in which you will get it. But just know the potential outcomes of this decision as you go about your journey.

If any of this information is wrong, I blame Jim!

There has been more than one amnesty starting in 1968 (2 that I know of). There is no provision in Federal law to enable inspections of individually owned NFA registered firearms without the owner’s permission. Relatively easy to remove a SBR from the registry if you want to sell it as non-NFA. NFA firearms can transfer to heirs without paying tax, establishing a trust, and going through a dealer (Executor of the estate signs the form to initiate the transfer process). Of course a trust would work also.

In my 50 years of NFA firearms ownership, ATF has contacted me 3 times, 2 of which were via letters.

1) They had an error in the registry (their fault) and asked for a photo of a serial number to make a correction In their records.

2) Asked where was I keeping/leaving a couple of MG’s when I moved from Indiana to NC as I’d only said 1 MG was going with me. In a bank vault. Bank folks were cool after they knew me, with me carrying a MG into their facility.

3) I was called to the Provost Marshall office at Camp Lejeune NC to talk to an ATF agent 2 days after I arrived at my new command. Agent: I was notified you brought a Thompson submachine gun with you. I’m investigating ammo thefts from the Marine Corps base. If you are ever offered stolen ammo, here’s my card and please call me.

I was never offered stolen ammo. I was provided a can of 45 ball ammo to shoot at the rifle range if I let a couple of Marine instructors there each shoot a mag full in the TSMG. Good times. Kept my TSMG in the 2nd Medical Battalion armory. Skipper made me an “alternate armorer”, so I had complete armory access and could take in and issue weapons if the Marine armorers were not available. Except for formal inspections, I carried my WWII S&W Navy Victory Model 38. Got a couple of boxes of M41 ball ammo from Special Services to be kept in the armory for my pistol. Could keep personal firearms in the barracks if I was gonna go shooting on the weekend or holiday. Although a medical battalion, the skipper had all personnel, Marines and Navy, carry a firearm in the field so they’d be used to carrying. Also had to check out your firearm every two weeks to field strip and clean. I was a Navy Corpsman. I understand from talking to Marine officers at Whiting Field that what I did with the Marines back in the 1970’s would not be allowed today…heck, I had credibility.

 

[stage20]

I'm reading these free SBR posts. The way I interpret it is that the amnesty is for pistol brace equipped weapons only. Why they are going to require a picture. If you put a stock on an amnesty weapon, you're going to be a felon. The government is going to want their 200 bucks for that stock.

 

[Daezee]

I'm reading these free SBR posts. The way I interpret it is that the amnesty is for pistol brace equipped weapons only. Why they are going to require a picture. If you put a stock on an amnesty weapon, you're going to be a felon. The government is going to want their 200 bucks for that s

I'm reading these free SBR posts. The way I interpret it is that the amnesty is for pistol brace equipped weapons only. Why they are going to require a picture. If you put a stock on an amnesty weapon, you're going to be a felon. The government is going to want their 200 bucks for that stock.

Certainly a possibility. They would somehow have to add a rule (until successfully challenged with a lawsuit) that one can no longer do any alterations to owned/registered firearms. Some think this brace rule USA first step to having all “assault” weapons made NFA.

 

[Bullet Splatter]

There is no weapon classification for “braced pistols” or “braced sbr” an amnesty sbr will be an sbr, end of story.

 

[Daezee]

Wonder why they’re wanting a photo of the braced pistol with the registration paperwork?

 

[skyydiver]

The amnesty is a (not even) thinly veiled way to add names to a registry. They aren’t offering you a benefit here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bullet Splatter]

Wonder why they’re wanting a photo of the braced pistol with the registration paperwork?

This is the question I can’t wrap my head around. Unless y’all are right and they plan on adding a “braced sbr” classification. I don’t understand the point of the photo.

I was considering sbr’ing two pistols earlier this year, but now I don’t know.

 

[stage20]

There is no weapon classification for “braced pistols” or “braced sbr” an amnesty sbr will be an sbr, end of story.

Surely. You registered it under the amnesty period and the photo shows a brace. You have not paid the NFA for a stock. I may be wrong, but don't count your way right.

 

[Bullet Splatter]

Surely. You registered it under the amnesty period and the photo shows a brace. You have not paid the NFA for a stock. I may be wrong, but don't count your way right.

I’d rather pay the 200 and put a stock on than keep the brace for “free”.

 

[stage20]

I’d rather pay the 200 and put a stock on than keep the brace for “free”.

I'm in the air about it. Once you drop 200 or more in a pdw brace, it doesn't make sense to spend 200 to change to a 30 dollar stock. Idk. We will see how the climate is come the time. Hopefully this gets enough backlash it fizzes out. Mid terms will give us a good idea.