Trump

[JBryan314]

The stupid republicans keep telling us "Oh! We can't get anything done until we get the White House back!"

Seriously? That's complete bullshit! The SCOTUS lean slightly right and we gave the Republicans nice majorities in both houses of Congress! You're telling me that you can't get ANYTHING done? It's a lie. A complete lie. The establishment hates Cruz because he bucks them and pushes them to fulfill the promises they made.

 

[Roaster's Gallery]

I just can't decide between a Canadian in the white house, or a natural-born commie. Canadians seem better natured than some of those mean-assed Yugoslavians. Tough call.

 

[JBryan314]

I just can't decide between a Canadian in the white house, or a natural-born commie. Canadians seem better natured than some of those mean-assed Yugoslavians. Tough call.

I know you may be joking, but he's actually not Canadian. He's been American since birth and has already renounced his dual citizenship. It's been settled but there are many who choose this to attack him with because there is nothing else.

 

[Mozella]

I know you may be joking, but he's actually not Canadian. He's been American since birth and has already renounced his dual citizenship. It's been settled but there are many who choose this to attack him with because there is nothing else.

There is no doubt that he is an American citizen, but until very recently he was indeed a Canadian. That changed when he formally renounced his citizenship. What's more important is the actual meaning of "natural born" as it relates to eligibility to be president. That question is not settled....... not by a long shot. Cruz goes further and says it's settled LAW, but that is a hope...... not a fact. He should know better since he claims to have experience with the Supreme Court. It is they who may ultimate decide the definition of "natural born".

Some would argue that a person has a natural affinity for his place of birth and a certain allegiance to that country even though he/she may also hold citizenship in the U.S. It is believed by many that the founders wanted our presidents to have allegiance only to the United States, not some other country. They didn't want to worry about a president having some degree of divided loyalty caused by their place of birth; i.e. they wanted our highest office holder to be purely American. And it follows, from that point of view, that being born on American soil is what "natural born" was meant to describe.

Of course, others disagree and claim that someone like Cruz is qualified simply because his mother was an American citizen, no matter where he was born, because he became an American citizen without having to be naturalized. Others would argue that he's an American because he was "naturalized at birth" by virtue of his mother's citizenship, which could very well be considered different from "natural born".

In other words, some see a clear difference between becoming a citizen in a "natural" way as contrasted with "by rule of law". It is clear, at least to me, that Cruz became an American citizen at birth purely because that is the way an American law was written. Had that law not been in place, he would, by all reasonable reckoning, be a Canadian and a Canadian only. Put another way, a simpleton not knowing anything about any laws would say, "If you're born there, you're from there".

Interestingly, by the argument Cruz is putting forth, it should be noted that Egyptian presidential candidate and anti American radical Sheik Hazem Salah Abu Ismail is also qualified to be an American president, just like Cruz. Somehow I don't think our founders had Sheik Ismail in mind when they used the phrase "natural born", but I could be wrong.

I happen to think that if this question is answered in the near future by our Supreme Court, they would find in Cruz's favor. But since it is NOT actually settled law, in spite of what Cruz claims, it casts a pall on his candidacy and weakens him, at least in the minds of some voters, both in the primaries and in the general election, should he prevail. That's unfortunate, but true.

 

[Roaster's Gallery]

I know you may be joking, but he's actually not Canadian. He's been American since birth and has already renounced his dual citizenship. It's been settled but there are many who choose this to attack him with because there is nothing else.

Yes, I'm joking. But, I have learned over the last 7 years how to keep beating a dead horse like this.

 

[wildrider666]

Pure Trump misinformation and distraction. This specific issue has been addressed with THREE prior canidates ( McCain, G. Romney and Goldwater). Trump camp must feel threatened to start pissing in the wind with crap like this! Just another Trump position without substance or facts.

 

[JBryan314]

So you have a election where all the candidates except one say if elected they will piss on your leg . Some say don't believe that one guy he is lying he also will piss on your leg . You don't won't your leg pissed on . So why you vote for someone you know will piss on your leg instead of giving the guy who says he won't piss on you a chance ? Or not vote and give the election to the pissers, think Romney. I don't like Trump's personality but he is saying the right things and I would vote for a dead skunk in the road before I voted for the establishment ( all others)

So if Cruz doesn't follow the establishment, Bucks the establishment at every turn and the establishment HATES him... It means he is establishment...

Ok. Lol

 

[JBryan314]

Yes, I'm joking. But, I have learned over the last 7 years how to keep beating a dead horse like this.

I see.

So...

AR or AK? Lol

 

[JBryan314]

There is no doubt that he is an American citizen, but until very recently he was indeed a Canadian. That changed when he formally renounced his citizenship. What's more important is the actual meaning of "natural born" as it relates to eligibility to be president. That question is not settled....... not by a long shot. Cruz goes further and says it's settled LAW, but that is a hope...... not a fact. He should know better since he claims to have experience with the Supreme Court. It is they who may ultimate decide the definition of "natural born".

Some would argue that a person has a natural affinity for his place of birth and a certain allegiance to that country even though he/she may also hold citizenship in the U.S. It is believed by many that the founders wanted our presidents to have allegiance only to the United States, not some other country. They didn't want to worry about a president having some degree of divided loyalty caused by their place of birth; i.e. they wanted our highest office holder to be purely American. And it follows, from that point of view, that being born on American soil is what "natural born" was meant to describe.

Of course, others disagree and claim that someone like Cruz is qualified simply because his mother was an American citizen, no matter where he was born, because he became an American citizen without having to be naturalized. Others would argue that he's an American because he was "naturalized at birth" by virtue of his mother's citizenship, which could very well be considered different from "natural born".

In other words, some see a clear difference between becoming a citizen in a "natural" way as contrasted with "by rule of law". It is clear, at least to me, that Cruz became an American citizen at birth purely because that is the way an American law was written. Had that law not been in place, he would, by all reasonable reckoning, be a Canadian and a Canadian only. Put another way, a simpleton not knowing anything about any laws would say, "If you're born there, you're from there".

Interestingly, by the argument Cruz is putting forth, it should be noted that Egyptian presidential candidate and anti American radical Sheik Hazem Salah Abu Ismail is also qualified to be an American president, just like Cruz. Somehow I don't think our founders had Sheik Ismail in mind when they used the phrase "natural born", but I could be wrong.

I happen to think that if this question is answered in the near future by our Supreme Court, they would find in Cruz's favor. But since it is NOT actually settled law, in spite of what Cruz claims, it casts a pall on his candidacy and weakens him, at least in the minds of some voters, both in the primaries and in the general election, should he prevail. That's unfortunate, but true.

He doesn't just claim to have experienced with SCOTUS. He DOES have experience with SCOTUS. He has worked with and learned from one of the great Constitutionalists of our time.

It is settled enough that I guarantee you that the SCOTUS will not take this case up. Cruz is born to an American citizen living abroad. He is an American citizen. This debate is being used by the left and by the republican establishment to discredit and distract. They are terrified of Cruz. Don't be distracted by this circus over his citizenship. He is American and eligible. It's not even a big enough question to make it to any courts.

Don't let the smoke blind you.

 

[Roaster's Gallery]

This is fun!

 

[JBryan314]

This is fun!

View attachment 40185

Thank you. Mother born in Delaware. Cruz is eligible. Again, nothing more than smoke. Everyone screams for diversity, then tries to tear down the most diverse of us running.

So I guess now that we've determined Cruz is eligible and that it doesn't matter if he "looks creepy", can we try to get behind the only Constitutionalist in the race?

 

[Roaster's Gallery]

As the past few years have shown "Birther bullshit" just has to be spoken, then repeated, over & over again. Not because it is fact, just for idiots who care, to piss off other idiots who care. Just fun for everyone, don't you think?

 

[JBryan314]

As the past few years have shown "Birther bullshit" just has to be spoken, then repeated, over & over again. Not because it is fact, just for idiots who care, to piss off other idiots who care. Just fun for everyone, don't you think?

No, not really. I think it's a waste of time and most who continue to put it out there are trolls.

Difference is that little more than a fringe of Republican voters actually ever thought 0bama was born in Kenya and was lying about it. The MSM made a bigger deal of it than it was because they wanted to portray anyone who disagrees with 0bama as a crazy, racist, conspiracy theorist. In the case of Cruz, the mainstream media is trying to get on board and push the lie to distract people.

The same thing can happen to two different candidates, but it's different when one is worshipped by the media and the other is hated by it.

 

[helo_hunter]

My number one concern is the bait and switch the repubs have done to the republican party. Last couple of elections, as I was getting more and more pissed at Obama and the dumbocrats actions, the repubs said "vote for me and I will stop the liberals". Once elected, the repubs became dumbocrats, at least from their voting record. The budget that was sent to Obummer recently is a major case in point.

Long term politicians are proved professional liars, regardless of party. McCain, Boehner, McConnell, Clinton (either), and the list goes on are examples.

Cruz is a Politician. Trump is a businessman.

Cruz has said and done a lot to show that he is not the standard politician but he is still a politician. I believe the US cannot flourish as well under dembocrats as under repubs but both are taking us into socialism where no one flourishes. That slide has to stop.

Hoping that the voter fraud allows the will of the people to be shown and that that will is to stop the slide into socialism and muslim faith the US appears to be heading for.

 

[JBryan314]

My number one concern is the bait and switch the repubs have done to the republican party. Last couple of elections, as I was getting more and more pissed at Obama and the dumbocrats actions, the repubs said "vote for me and I will stop the liberals". Once elected, the repubs became dumbocrats, at least from their voting record. The budget that was sent to Obummer recently is a major case in point.

Long term politicians are proved professional liars, regardless of party. McCain, Boehner, McConnell, Clinton (either), and the list goes on are examples.

Cruz is a Politician. Trump is a businessman.

Cruz has said and done a lot to show that he is not the standard politician but he is still a politician. I believe the US cannot flourish as well under dembocrats as under repubs but both are taking us into socialism where no one flourishes. That slide has to stop.

Hoping that the voter fraud allows the will of the people to be shown and that that will is to stop the slide into socialism and muslim faith the US appears to be heading for.

Voting for someone simply by virtue of the fact that they aren't a politician is pretty dangerous. We should probably pay more attention to past actions and positions. Cruz has pretty much had the right stances from the start. Trump absolutely has not, starting with his support of the AWB in 1994.

 

[Mozella]

... snip....... He is an American citizen. This debate is being used by the left and by the republican establishment to discredit and distract. They are terrified of Cruz. Don't be distracted by this circus over his citizenship. ......... snip............

Nobody is disputing his citizenship. The question has to do with the meaning of "natural born" and how it relates to the constitutional requirement that our president meet that standard. It is clearly a different standard than simple citizenship. The fact that Cruz is a citizen, in and of itself, doesn't make him eligible. If it did, we might very well have The Terminator as president except for that little problem with the cleaning lady and the bastard child.

People, including Cruz, may say that "it's settled law", but that simply isn't true. The fact that the question has been addressed in the past is nothing more than historical trivia. None of the recent candidates, McCain for example, had their situation examined by the courts.

It may be true that the Supreme Court won't hear this case any time soon, but until they do, the question remains is Cruz truly eligible or not. And it's not simply a distraction. Not every citizen is stupid and uninformed. Saying things like "calm down", "it's settled law", "don't be blinded by the smoke" might work for the great unwashed, but some of us have learned that it may be unwise to drink the Kool Aid just 'cause some so-called expert invites (or even demands) us to do so.

Folks obviously have strong opinions on both sides, but until a court case is heard, that's all they are; opinions.

 

[JBryan314]

Nobody is disputing his citizenship. The question has to do with the meaning of "natural born" and how it relates to the constitutional requirement that our president meet that standard. It is clearly a different standard than simple citizenship. The fact that Cruz is a citizen, in and of itself, doesn't make him eligible. If it did, we might very well have The Terminator as president except for that little problem with the cleaning lady and the bastard child.

People, including Cruz, may say that "it's settled law", but that simply isn't true. The fact that the question has been addressed in the past is nothing more than historical trivia. None of the recent candidates, McCain for example, had their situation examined by the courts.

It may be true that the Supreme Court won't hear this case any time soon, but until they do, the question remains is Cruz truly eligible or not. And it's not simply a distraction. Not every citizen is stupid and uninformed. Saying things like "calm down", "it's settled law", "don't be blinded by the smoke" might work for the great unwashed, but some of us have learned that it may be unwise to drink the Kool Aid just 'cause some so-called expert invites (or even demands) us to do so.

Folks obviously have strong opinions on both sides, but until a court case is heard, that's all they are; opinions.

There will be no court case, and the fact that a court case has not been heard does not by default mean there is a problem. Heck, it's not even Cruz's responsibility to send it to a court in the first place. It'll never see a court.

Why? Because it's been defined well enough what "natural born citizen" means.

The Congressional Research Service is a group that acts as the research arm for the US Congress. It is a legislative branch agency and works directly for members of the US Congress. This research body has defined "natural born citizen" to mean anyone who meets the requirements of US citizenship AT BIRTH, whether born in the US OR ELSEWHERE. Ted Cruz met the requirements of US citizenship at the day of his birth, born of a mother who is a US citizen born in Delaware.

It IS settled. Not everything requires a Supreme Court ruling, but it seems some people will accept nothing less, unless it meets the needs of their political agenda.

A US Congressional agency has defined, for the purposes of use in in the body of the US Congress, what a natural born citizen is. Is that not sufficient?

 

[Zeroed in]

The problem I have with it is, the constitution was clear, But amendments were made to trump the original constitution. Being that if any man born within the jurisdiction of the United States, to parents of us citizens, shall be deemed natural-born citizens.
So, Where exactly was cruz born, ah yes, it's on the posted birth certificate, But was that township "within the US jurisdiction"?
It also says born to US Parent(s) abroad. I see that his father was from cuba. Was his father a US citizen? As I read the requirements, it states PARENTS, which is plural, and not in singular form.
Yes I know, but ob was (or they say) born in hawaii, natural-born.
Also, Why were they in Canada? Did they Move there, living there, visiting? Where were his parents married, US or canada?
I believe they were living there because of their inter-racial marriage (wasn't that excepted 45 yrs ago), and therefore, his natural-born status should be revoked, because that to me is the same as denouncing their citizenship.
I bet if someone dug deep enough, they may find were his parents filed for canadian citizenship.
I also do not agree with being born abroad makes a person a natural-born US citizen. I feel they should be classified only as us citizens, but not natural-born.

As I said, this is what I BELIEVE, I'm sure you believe different. So No matter what your rebuttal is, you can't change my mind.

TRUMP for PRESIDENT !!!

 

[FrankT]

The problem I have with it is, the constitution was clear, But amendments were made to trump the original constitution. Being that if any man born within the jurisdiction of the United States, to parents of us citizens, shall be deemed natural-born citizens.
So, Where exactly was cruz born, ah yes, it's on the posted birth certificate, But was that township "within the US jurisdiction"?
It also says born to US Parent(s) abroad. I see that his father was from cuba. Was his father a US citizen? As I read the requirements, it states PARENTS, which is plural, and not in singular form.
Yes I know, but ob was (or they say) born in hawaii, natural-born.
Also, Why were they in Canada? Did they Move there, living there, visiting? Where were his parents married, US or canada?
I believe they were living there because of their inter-racial marriage (wasn't that excepted 45 yrs ago), and therefore, his natural-born status should be revoked, because that to me is the same as denouncing their citizenship.
I bet if someone dug deep enough, they may find were his parents filed for canadian citizenship.
I also do not agree with being born abroad makes a person a natural-born US citizen. I feel they should be classified only as us citizens, but not natural-born.

As I said, this is what I BELIEVE, I'm sure you believe different. So No matter what your rebuttal is, you can't change my mind.

TRUMP for PRESIDENT !!!

You may have hit on something w the mixed race marriage. I do know that for a long time those US citizens that were close and could, living along the Canadian border, tried to go to Canada to have their kids because it was much cheaper and almost free compared to US costs.

 

[JBryan314]

The problem I have with it is, the constitution was clear, But amendments were made to trump the original constitution. Being that if any man born within the jurisdiction of the United States, to parents of us citizens, shall be deemed natural-born citizens.
So, Where exactly was cruz born, ah yes, it's on the posted birth certificate, But was that township "within the US jurisdiction"?
It also says born to US Parent(s) abroad. I see that his father was from cuba. Was his father a US citizen? As I read the requirements, it states PARENTS, which is plural, and not in singular form.
Yes I know, but ob was (or they say) born in hawaii, natural-born.
Also, Why were they in Canada? Did they Move there, living there, visiting? Where were his parents married, US or canada?
I believe they were living there because of their inter-racial marriage (wasn't that excepted 45 yrs ago), and therefore, his natural-born status should be revoked, because that to me is the same as denouncing their citizenship.
I bet if someone dug deep enough, they may find were his parents filed for canadian citizenship.
I also do not agree with being born abroad makes a person a natural-born US citizen. I feel they should be classified only as us citizens, but not natural-born.

As I said, this is what I BELIEVE, I'm sure you believe different. So No matter what your rebuttal is, you can't change my mind.

TRUMP for PRESIDENT !!!

Your use of the word "jurisdiction" is not correct in the context of the US Constitution.

"My belief is my belief, I do not care about facts, the ACTUAL wording of the Constitution, Congressional definitions, or any of that BS. It's more important to me that I never change my mind, so bluh (sticks out tongue)."

Got it. Lol. That's usually the exact type of response I get from someone when I present irrefutable facts/logic. Go figure. I won't bother to engage about that again. I try only to debate and discuss with facts and logic. If those are no good with someone, then I prefer not to waste my time.

So... Anyway, is a definition from the US CONGRESS good for anyone else? Or does anyone else require an edict from God himself to put this ridiculous citizenship BS to rest?