Sales, ATF and the GCGF

[Little Jack]

Whether you know this or not,

The local ATF is aware of this forum and has been/is watching the sales section.

The laws are out there and they are not a secret. If you don't know what they are, find out. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html is a good starting point.

If you're uncomfortable selling to someone, don't complete the sale or do it through an FFL to cover yourself.

FWIW

 

[statdoc]

I have every legal and moral right to sell a firearm privately to someone who presents themselves to me as being legally allowed to purchase it (a resident of my same state who is not a felon, legal age, etc). I appreciate having good cooperative FFL's such as you to handle the interstate transfers as needed, but otherwise, I would rather keep the fees and paperwork to a minimum.

 

[Little Jack]

I'm not saying you need to go through an FFL. It's all kinds of legal to sell without going through an FFL.

I'm saying if someone can't convince you that they aren't a felon or a resident then you should probably think about completing the transaction via a different route or not at all.

This wasn't an attempt to clear an extra $10. The ATF hit someone off the forum recently who wasn't following the law.

THIS IS A HEADS UP ONLY!!

 

[FrankT]

Thanks Nate, checking people twice is a good thing...Nice thing about dealing in a forum is half of us know each other and I don't do business w the noobs unless vouched for. Maybe w the cut backs they can go look for real criminals.

 

[statdoc]

I'm not saying you need to go through an FFL. It's all kinds of legal to sell without going through an FFL.

I'm saying if someone can't convince you that they aren't a felon or a resident then you should probably think about completing the transaction via a different route or not at all.

This wasn't an attempt to clear an extra $10. The ATF hit someone off the forum recently who wasn't following the law.

THIS IS A HEADS UP ONLY!!

Yep, we agree on all this. I was just helping you clarify things. If the nanny statists have their way, you will have to do background checks on every private sale soon, anyway. :frusty:

 

[Little Jack]

Frank,

Here to help.

WRT the real criminals. The few ATF guys I know are Pro 2A. I understand it's US vs. THEM, but the guys they're hitting are committing MULTIPLE sales to people that didn't meet the felon/resident requirements. I would say that people who are knowingly providing weapons to people they aren't supposed to be providing weapons to are real criminals. It's people like that who are threatening the private sales.

I'M ALL FOR PRIVATE SALES. JUST DO IT THE RIGHT WAY.

 

[Stanley13]

Safety second!!!!

 

[feef706]

Frank,

but the guys they're hitting are committing MULTIPLE sales to people that didn't meet the felon/resident requirements. I would say that people who are knowingly providing weapons to people they aren't supposed to be providing weapons to are real criminals.

Sounds like they deserve it...

 

[FrankT]

I agree

 

[flightmedic]

I agree with all of you guys. I made a trade recently and didn't know the guy. But it was a straight up trade. I ran the serial number of the gun he was trading thru the FDLE website prior to the trade, but I did not have him checked out for whether he was legal to own it or not. He was in posession of a gun prior to me trading with him. So by the ATF I have to have reason to believe the person is unable to posess a firearm in order to be held liable. So for him to posess before leads me to belive he is doing so lawfully. So "if" he wasn't allowed to posess a gun...... he posessed one before trading with me..............NOT MY PROBLEM... Move along!

 

[Captken]

They probably look harder at people that sell multiple guns that do not have a FFL. One or two here and there is ok, but when you list several a month, then you are dealing without a license

 

[Bean Counter]

I think you have it captken. There are a small number on here that are probably pushing the envelope when it come to the volume of sales. Did a look into one that has never posted other than in sales and has post count over 200. I just hope the mods/owners couldn't be held liable for complacency. Also this discussion begs the question what should you ask for in a private sale? The ATF says that you can sell a firearm to a person if you do not know or have reason to believe that the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing a firearm under federal law. It also says there are no record keeping requirements for a private sale. I see people here ask for a drivers license or ccw to purchase a firearm. I am not an attorney but one might believe that in doing so you are now going an extra step not required by law that could make you liable if you sold to a prohibited person. Why did you take the number if you weren't going to check it out? How did you know it wasn't a fake DL or CCW? Sometimes going that extra step can get you in trouble. I can only relate to the laws regarding my business but if I take a job and I ask certain questions I can be held liable for performing a service I wasn't engaged or paid to do. In the case of gun sales I would say ignorance is bliss. If you are uncomfortable with selling to someone use a FFL for the transfer otherwise you could be opening up a can of worms that could get you into trouble. Just my .02. If I am wrong please correct me IE let the bashing begin.

 

[SAWMAN]

Just to be clear.....I will not panic. You can't make me panic. I will continue to sell to,and buy from,individuals that are not KNOWN TO ME to be convicted felons,mentally deranged,illegal aliens(undocumented workers),from another world,from another period of time/dimension,or Stanley.

I won't ask....you don't tell. I am not a FFL. I do not know nutin' about nutin'....except what my rights are. I will continue to exercise those rights as long as Da Bro doesn't come to get my guns or you people here accomplish what seems to be your intended goal of putting the fear of God Almighty...or...the BATFE...in me.

You want a gun,I'll sell you a gun. That is unless you come here talking to yourself,tell me you are a convicted felon or otherwise not eligible to own a firearm, or you tell me your first name is Stan. I am one of the good guys. BATFE has nothing to fear from me. AND.......I will continue NOT to fear the BATFE simply because I will never(EVER!)consciously do anything to break the laws of the United States Of America.

OH...and another thing ---> I do hear by acknowledge that I do not know, nor I have ever known, Eric Holder personally ,or have never accepted firearms of any kind from him. :whistle: --- SAWMAN

 

[Bean Counter]

Exactly Sawman. Unfortunately asking a bunch of questions will get you in trouble. In this case ignorance is bliss.

 

[Savage]

If criminals want guns, they will burglarize homes and steal them while people are at work. I have friends in law enforcement and it happens almost everyday in this area. Laws are only good for non-criminals but I guess they give society a false sense of protection.

 

[Little Jack]

As relayed to me, there was very little question about whether the seller was breaking the law with the sales. This was not a technicality or a situation that required the seller to run a background check to find out some obscure piece of information. It was made clear that the buyer was not someone who should not have a firearm.

 

[FrankT]

So Nate, can you publicly or privately allow us to know so we do not buy or sell from this individual inadvertently? I try to use a huge dose of common sense when buying or selling to folks and have turned down several sales because i did not feel comfortable, they were not Fl residents or their first name was stan(jk...lol) Can't sell to Stan w/o an FFL legally, different States.

 

[Telum Pisces]

So Nate, can you publicly or privately allow us to know so we do not buy or sell from this individual inadvertently? I try to use a huge dose of common sense when buying or selling to folks and have turned down several sales because i did not feel comfortable, they were not Fl residents or their first name was stan(jk...lol) Can't sell to Stan w/o an FFL legally, different States.

Sounds like it was a sting type operation. ATF folks pose as the buyer and clearly state to the seller that they cannot pass a background check or that they usually cannot own a firearm if they bought from a store. At that point, you should say, have a nice day and walk away. A lot of people still sell the gun for some crazy reason. Just my guess.

I have heard a lot of stories of this lately.

 

[HughJoergan]

I think we have a winner!!!

 

[b747fp]