Russia to attack Ukraine Wednesday

[seandizzie]

"Let's act like unhinged lunatics because i want to win a dick measuring contest"

>be russian/Chinese general
>nuke pops off just off the coast
>oh my, the americans are crazy, their stealth bombers could be on the way to moscow/beijing
>we hereby agree we're under attack and this was a dud/mistake in targeting
>thereby, send one of ours, target city X
Or
>we can hereby infer we're under attack by a nuclear power with the capabilities to do a decapitation strike. We need to counter while we still can.
>Launch everything we have, glass them

You're deranged. We have our nukes already targeting them, thereby threatening them. That's the whole idea of MAD.

You're suggesting an unprovoked first strike because "my pp is bigger than yours" we can get away with that with norks or iran because they can't retaliate. Chang and Ivan on the other hand have enough missiles to glass the entire country twice over.

We also would lose what little moral superiority we have left. The reason we don't want norks or Iran to get nukes is because we preach that they'll be in the hand of unhinged lunatics that'll use them unprovoked. Your idea to prevent that is to act like unhinged lunatics and try to bully/threaten another country with nuclear holocaust because we can.

If we do that, just to norks or iran, in weeks the russians and chinese will speed their programs and ensure they have working nukes and delivery systems. Nuclear proliferation goes insane because every country now thinks americans are insane and will nuke you if you don't obey them empire style

Jesus Christ, neocons are as bad as commies View attachment 157796

Meh... the whole idea is to remind them they are pointed at them, which you seem perfectly okay with. Its a deterrent action, as apparently just pointing is failing to work anymore. I understand the implications and personally believe its a way of avoiding war. In a simplistic way of describing it.

I say call their bluff.

They don’t wanna die either.

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

EMP/ NUKE high over Kansas and we do ourselves in. No troops needed.

 

[DAS HUGH!]

We could leave a suicide letter that blames Russia too

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[Raven]

"Let's act like unhinged lunatics because i want to win a dick measuring contest"

>be russian/Chinese general
>nuke pops off just off the coast
>oh my, the americans are crazy, their stealth bombers could be on the way to moscow/beijing
>we hereby agree we're under attack and this was a dud/mistake in targeting
>thereby, send one of ours, target city X
Or
>we can hereby infer we're under attack by a nuclear power with the capabilities to do a decapitation strike. We need to counter while we still can.
>Launch everything we have, glass them

You're deranged. We have our nukes already targeting them, thereby threatening them. That's the whole idea of MAD.

You're suggesting an unprovoked first strike because "my pp is bigger than yours" we can get away with that with norks or iran because they can't retaliate. Chang and Ivan on the other hand have enough missiles to glass the entire country twice over.

We also would lose what little moral superiority we have left. The reason we don't want norks or Iran to get nukes is because we preach that they'll be in the hand of unhinged lunatics that'll use them unprovoked. Your idea to prevent that is to act like unhinged lunatics and try to bully/threaten another country with nuclear holocaust because we can.

If we do that, just to norks or iran, in weeks the russians and chinese will speed their programs and ensure they have working nukes and delivery systems. Nuclear proliferation goes insane because every country now thinks americans are insane and will nuke you if you don't obey them empire style

Jesus Christ, neocons are as bad as commies View attachment 157796

Somebody's gotta pop nukes first. Might as well be us. Whoever executes the first strike will win. If the US is the recipient of a preemptive strike then something like 70-80% of our air superiority will be destroyed sitting on the deck, all lined up in rows. The rest of our forces will be sitting ducks without any air cover. Only our deployed Naval firepower and Naval air power will be saved and even then they still have to sail home. It will be a shit show. We're over extended across the whole world, with not much more than veterans, the 2A and reservists defending the homeland

 

[Raven]

When the German death camp guards were asked how they could do such awful things, They would always answer that it was because of propaganda. If I walked up and showed a person a photo of some random stranger and told them they needed to hate them immediately, they'd think I was insane. But somehow, the media does this daily. Heck, I saw a video yesterday of a medic there who boasted of giving orders to his staff to castrate all the POWs. That's what propaganda does to peoples minds. He later apologized but never clarified how many people he did this to tho. People are losing their minds.

Nukes. To me are the pinnacle of crazy talk. The notion that there are harmless nukes is even crazier. No nation wants that anywhere near them. Even if way up high. The winds carry that stuff globally. We had Fukushima particles landing all the way over here ffs. I'm just glad our nukes require multiple levels of security to authorize their use.

I'm not trying to sound better than or correct anyone in some holier than thou manner. Were all human. And this makes us do and say things we may not mean. But each time a person does say these these things. Then the next. Then the next. It gets to the talk of nukes fast. It's hard to watch the innocents there suffer. But it's no 100% fault of either side. And only the 1% of both sides are to blame. And the rest are forced to live with their greed and choices. Especially when peace seemed like such a easy option. Who's to say which side is the real evil. We even have a hand in the evil there also. I'd like to see whoever put those labs there go to jail myself. That alone is a scary thing to have around. Let alone nukes. All that mass destruction crap needs to chill. We've fought 2 world wars over there. I think it's time they clean their own messes for once

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Isolationism will catch on. Empire will throw up a defensive perimeter and hide behind it for 1000 years. It's all cyclical

 

[Raven]

EMP/ NUKE high over Kansas and we do ourselves in. No troops needed.

Thats the plot behind the Jericho tv series. It's called "programming" for a reason

 

[edruken]

Somebody's gotta pop nukes first. Might as well be us. Whoever executes the first strike will win. If the US is the recipient of a preemptive strike then something like 70-80% of our air superiority will be destroyed sitting on the deck, all lined up in rows. The rest of our forces will be sitting ducks without any air cover. Only our deployed Naval firepower and Naval air power will be saved and even then they still have to sail home. It will be a shot show. We're over extended across the whole world, with not much but veterans, the 2A and reservists defending the homeland

The whole concept of us having a nuclear triad, and of M.A.D. means that a preemptive strike is not feasible.
If Chang or Ivan wake up rough and decide they want the world to end, and launch a first strike. If for some contrivance we don't detect the launch with satellites, or early warning radars. Let's say a solar flare knocked everything out.
Missiles land and glass all of the continent... twice for good measure. Well, chang/ivan are patting themselves on the back. "Ha, we sure showed those americans we mean business"
Suddenly, their cities start going nova as the missiles from our boomer submarines which are constantly on patrol land. The counterattack landed and chang/ivan are now the proud rulers of a radioactive wasteland.

There's an insane level of redundancy on the nuclear triad. The whole concept of mad entails nobody can launch a first strike without retaliation. If you start hunting the subs, land missiles and bombers launch. If you strike airfields and silos, boomer nukes fly.

There's enough nukes on the biggest arsenals to ensure the "winner" of such an exchange gets thrown back to the stone age. We spent half a century ensuring there are enough nukes for everyone to get their share.

Everyone who has them wants nobody else to get them since if you have nukes you're untouchable. The price of eating a single nuke is too much to risk. A single nuke that slips through, no matter how crude it might be, would cause tends of thousands of casualties and billions in damage.

If nukes fly, even on a tactical level, there's not gonna be much conventional fighting being done since everyone's logistics and supplies are slagged. The mightiest armored division turns into a ragtag band of marauders that clash with other groups for food or water once their heavy equipment stops running.

 

[Raven]

The whole concept of us having a nuclear triad, and of M.A.D. means that a preemptive strike is not feasible.
If Chang or Ivan wake up rough and decide they want the world to end, and launch a first strike. If for some contrivance we don't detect the launch with satellites, or early warning radars. Let's say a solar flare knocked everything out.
Missiles land and glass all of the continent... twice for good measure. Well, chang/ivan are patting themselves on the back. "Ha, we sure showed those americans we mean business"
Suddenly, their cities start going nova as the missiles from our boomer submarines which are constantly on patrol land. The counterattack landed and chang/ivan are now the proud rulers of a radioactive wasteland.

There's an insane level of redundancy on the nuclear triad. The whole concept of mad entails nobody can launch a first strike without retaliation. If you start hunting the subs, land missiles and bombers launch. If you strike airfields and silos, boomer nukes fly.

There's enough nukes on the biggest arsenals to ensure the "winner" of such an exchange gets thrown back to the stone age. We spent half a century ensuring there are enough nukes for everyone to get their share.

Everyone who has them wants nobody else to get them since if you have nukes you're untouchable. The price of eating a single nuke is too much to risk. A single nuke that slips through, no matter how crude it might be, would cause tends of thousands of casualties and billions in damage.

If nukes fly, even on a tactical level, there's not gonna be much conventional fighting being done since everyone's logistics and supplies are slagged. The mightiest armored division turns into a ragtag band of marauders that clash with other groups for food or water once their heavy equipment stops running.

Good. We don't even have to fly nukes. Arm the whole sub, walk away and blow the whole boat in the water. We have like over 30 of these subs, each with more firepower than was ever dropped on all of Vietnam ever combined. Sail a container ship full of nukes right into the harbor of every one of their major ports, all wide open and inviting, and blow them sky high. Put a drone sub with a MOAB under every one of the carriers and blow them carriers in half. Done Sir Done. Game over. M.A.D. is a myth. Nuclear war can be waged to where the results are completely one sided, and I'd prefer America is the winner. It's called a coordinated preemptive strike big enough to wipe out all opposition in less than a minute all at the same time, and nothing needs to fly anywhere. Blow a 1000 of them at ground level, where nobody will have time to retaliate. If somehow somebody somewhere in the middle of them getting annihilated manages to get a few fired in our direction, it's a small price to pay for winning WW3 and assuring 200+ years of peace. "Born to fight, trained to kill, ready to die, but never will. " because "this world is not my home." Nuke it all. First. People think "nukes" and think Hiroshima. Modern nukes are so huge it would only take two to wipe out half a continent. Whoever shoots first wins.

 

[Raven]

Good. We don't even have to fly nukes. Arm the whole sub, walk away and blow the whole boat in the water. We have like over 30 of these subs, each with more firepower than was ever dropped on all of Vietnam ever combined. Sail a container ship full of nukes right into the harbor of every one of their major ports, all wide open and inviting, and blow them sky high. Put a drone sub with a MOAB under every one of the carriers and blow them carriers in half. Done Sir Done. Game over. M.A.D. is a myth. Nuclear war can be waged to where the results are completely one sided, and I'd prefer America is the winner. It's called a coordinated preemptive strike big enough to wipe out all opposition in less than a minute all at the same time, and nothing needs to fly anywhere. Blow a 1000 of them at ground level, where nobody will have time to retaliate. If somehow somebody somewhere in the middle of them getting annihilated manages to get a few fired in our direction, it's a small price to pay for winning WW3 and assuring 200+ years of peace. "Born to fight, trained to kill, ready to die, but never will. " because "this world is not my home." Nuke it all. First. People think "nukes" and think Hiroshima. Modern nukes are so huge it would only take two to wipe out half a continent. Whoever shoots first wins. View attachment 157919 View attachment 157915

And guess what nobody is talking about in the media... back in 05 when this Swedish sub destroyed our aircraft carriers and our nuclear submarines... the whole world was watching. All of our enemies ran out and bought copies of this Swedish sub that absolutely decimated our entire fleet. If our candy ass sissies in the District let the Commies fire first then we're all dead meat anyways. If we preemptive strike we at least have a chance

 

[edruken]

Good. Let ours fly first. We don't even have to fly nukes. Arm the whole sub, walk away and blow it up in the water. We have like over 30 of these subs, each with more firepower than was ever dropped on all of Vietnam ever combined. Sail a container ship full of nukes right into the harbor of every one of their major ports, all wide open and inviting, and blow them sky high. Put a drone sub under every one of the carriers and blow that carrier in half. Done Sir Done. Game over. M.A.D. is a myth. Nuclear war can be waged to where the results are completely one sided, and I'd prefer America is the winner. It's called a coordinated preemptive strike big enough to wipe out all opposition in less than a minute all at the same time, and nothing needs to fly anywhere. Blow a 1000 of them at ground level, where nobody will have time to retaliate

Okay, I'm not sure if serious or joking. Gonna assume the first for the sake of this post.

Let's assume you want to do that to russia. The russians currently have 12 active service nuclear boomers. Each carries 16 missiles. Some have 1 warhead, some have up to 6 each. Let's assume that half of those are in patrol (aka at sea) at any given time. The other half are in port.

So there we have potentially 96-396 warheads at sea. Let's average at half again that will be launched before the subs can be sunk. We optimistically assume every sub at port got sunk without firing. That's still 48-198 warheads incoming. Let's average at 100.

We have a better boomer fleet, with more subs, and better bombers. The russians have about 300 land based icbms. We asume as we did with the boomer fleet that every static missile silo got blown up. However about 2/3 the arsenal is mobile, heavy tel trucks constantly roaming through the wilderness. So we have at least 200 icbms firing back. Let's say an average of 2 warheads each. Some have 1, some have 4. So that's another 400 warheads, again let's assume we got some of those, so 300 warheads.

Their bomber force is much inferior to ours and i find it highly improbable that anything but a handful would survive to get airborne and launch nuclear cruise missiles. So let's say 0 warheads.

In this hypothetical best case scenario where we struck first, destroyed every fixed silo, several of their mobile launchers, 3/4 of their boomer fleet and prevented their bombers from even getting airborne. There's still 400 nuclear warheads being fired back at us. We're gonna eat 400 nukes. That's 25% of their ACTIVE stockpile. Since we striked first, they'll not waste them on our military infrastructure, but fire straight at population centers. We take 100 million casualties. We "won"

On a more realistic scenario, we won't be able to get as many of their nukes before they fire, so of their 1600 ACTIVE warheads we'll eat at least 900-1200. The country gets turned into a parking lot.

 

[Raven]

So there we have potentially 96-396 warheads at sea. Let's average at half again that will be launched before the subs can be sunk. We optimistically assume every sub at port got sunk without firing. That's still 48-198 warheads incoming. Let's average at 100.

There's no averaging anything. The technology has existed to absolutely decimate forward deployed nuclear subs for over 20 years

 

[Raven]

100,000,000 casualties and we win and we secure a global empire and peace for hundreds of years after ... I can live with that. We have over 330,000,000 people just in America

 

[moron1]

My thoughts are that survivors of a global nuclear event will envy the dead.

 

[Raven]

My thoughts are that survivors of a global nuclear event will envy the dead.

Why? Because they dont have cars, electricity, TV, internet or phones? Oooooohhhh the horrors. People will migrate to the south for heat and to the coasts for food. Just like nowadays. Just like a hundred years ago and two hundred years ago. This is why most of our population centers are waterfront. Food and commerce. Been like this for thousands of years. Life goes on. If we don't strike first then we won't have a Navy or Airforce left to strike with. It is that simple

 

[moron1]

Why? Because they dont have cars, electricity, TV, internet or phones? Oooooohhhh the horrors. People will migrate to the south for heat and to the coasts for food. Just like nowadays. Just like a hundred years ago and two hundred years ago. This is why most of our population centers are waterfront. Food and commerce. Been like this for thousands of years. Life goes on. If we don't strike first then we won't have a Navy or Airforce left to strike with. It is that simple

Why? Radiation poisoning, nuclear winter, starvation, loss of loved ones or watching them suffer a slow death would take away most peoples will to live. Anyways that is what I’ve heard and I tend to believe it.

 

[Longtooth]

Lets keep this on track guys.
Start a different thread for discussing the benefits of Nuking the entire continent if you must, but lets keep this thread on the current conflict in Ukraine.

 

[M60Gunner]

Interesting timing for this tweet

 

[Raven]

Why? Radiation poisoning, nuclear winter, starvation, loss of loved ones or watching them suffer a slow death would take away most peoples will to live. Anyways that is what I’ve heard and I tend to believe it.

Yeah death is part of any war. Part of life too. Accept it. This world is not our home, we're just a passing through

 

[Raven]

Lets keep this on track guys.
Start a different thread for discussing the benefits of Nuking the entire continent if you must, but lets keep this thread on the current conflict in Ukraine.

Roger that. We'll just carpet bomb the Ukrainian Nazi lovers and get the conflict over with. No nukes. They're Nazis! Real Nazis! Why is any freedom loving red blooded American sticking up for them?! Because the TV said to?!

 

[Raven]

Interesting timing for this tweet

Obama will get his stateside army of occupation after all