Retired Cop shoots man for texting in theater

[Fletch]

Off topic. Flech every time I read one of your posts I have to crenge.. You are shooting up a car that I owned and loved. True story.LOL

Rest easy Snow Bird. Constable Bob, from the TV series Justified, is not shooting up the Gremlin but using it for concealment/cover as he wildly fires at the crooked old men who have finally pushed him to far and not respected his authority!

 

[JohnAL]

On one of the news stations I saw an interview of a female friend of the dead guy's family. I don't remember the exact quote but I do remember the exact word that she used. She said that "he could be ornery at times". Sounds to me like two people with attitudes crossed paths at the wrong time.

 

[flyandscuba]

Schavey nailed it - it will come down to a test of reasonableness. What would another armed citizen do if in the same or a similar situation.

All law enforcement shootings are evaluated by a reasonableness test during the ensuing investigation. What would another equally trained officer do if faces with the same situation.

Factors such as size, gender difference, physical ability/condition and age of the parties is considered in such investigations.

An increasingly armed society will become an increasingly polite society over time - through experience and attrition. Thugs tempted by the "knock out" game will think twice once a few of them are put down in the act. Mess with a crotchety old fart and you just may get shot if you posture and throw an object in his direction...

 

[Centermass556]

These are all some very good points...Whether we want to admit them or not. More and more it is evident we live with a Legal System and not a Justice System. What can my lawyer convince a Judge and Jury the law says...And the more and more I read stories coming out of my home state, it seems to be getting worse.

For the most part I am a mild mannered, curteous, friendly human being. But, there are few things that will set me off and tell you mind your own frakin lane...If I was I texting my Kids during previews at a movie and someone turned around and said something to me, I could see myself telling that person to go get bent. I'm not one to get into a shouting match though. would that cop have shot me?

The people I think that need to be shot without prejudice are the people who leave shopping carts in the middle of the parking lot.

Here in alaska, everyone carries...Everyone. and most of them are unstable. There are two things you can assume about an old man in Alaska. 1, he is a survivor and 2, he is packing.That may be why for the most part people are friendly, but mind their own business here.

 

[FNHman]

The wound in her hand could be perceived that she was trying to pull him back from his attack on the retired cop.

So many unanswered questions at this point.

It should make for an interesting trial for sure.

 

[flyandscuba]

Here in alaska, everyone carries...Everyone. and most of them are unstable. There are two things you can assume about an old man in Alaska. 1, he is a survivor and 2, he is packing.That may be why for the most part people are friendly, but mind their own business here.

Should "them" be "us"? I'm sitting here eating breakfast at a restaurant in Soldotna - with a G30 chambered in 460 Rowland on my side... Almost spewed my plate with diet coke out of my nostrils when I read your post!

Thinking - ok, I'm guilty of "everyone" packing -- but am I guilty of being "unstable" because I choose to carry a hand cannon with moose defense loads (255gr hard cast Buffalo Bore).

You're right though - people do seem more polite here...even more courteous on the roads.

 

[flyandscuba]

The wound in her hand could be perceived that she was trying to pull him back from his attack on the retired cop. So many unanswered questions at this point. It should make for an interesting trial for sure.

I was wondering the same thing - especially if he had a tendency to be ornery... I wonder - if the decedent put his hands on the shooter prior to the gun being drawn and fired. If so, a case of self defense may be plausible.

 

[Fletch]

Schavey nailed it - it will come down to a test of reasonableness. What would another armed citizen do if in the same or a similar situation.

All law enforcement shootings are evaluated by a reasonableness test during the ensuing investigation. What would another equally trained officer do if faces with the same situation.

Factors such as size, gender difference, physical ability/condition and age of the parties is considered in such investigations.

An increasingly armed society will become an increasingly polite society over time - through experience and attrition. Thugs tempted by the "knock out" game will think twice once a few of them are put down in the act. Mess with a crotchety old fart and you just may get shot if you posture and throw an object in his direction...

Using that same logic of experience and attrition, if the "youngsters" texting their daughters started smoking every crotchety old fart who postured at them about the offensive texting, then the old farts would learn to become more polite and just let it go as well. Only an increasingly armed society with just laws and citizens who respect them will become more polite over time imo. Somalia has become an increasing armed society over the decades and they are not becoming more polite with one another.

Most of the facts of this are out. It's not a Zimmerman situation where nobody knows what really happened as this wasn't a dark alley somewhere. There were witnesses within close proximity. They Tampa PD and DA have not given this former colleague any benefit of the doubt what so ever because they know he was out of line. I imagine the off duty deputy's testimony has and will weigh heavily on this case. There is nothing reasonable in his actions. I guess we could starting doing a Clintonesque bending of words and get into the philosophical differences on the meaning of reasonable but the fact is that 95% of potential jurors are not going to see his actions as reasonable.

 

[Centermass556]

I can't bring myself to say "us" yet. If I even mention he desire to retire in Alaska, the wife will file for divorce.

The unstable ones I am thinking of are the guys like he guy who shot the assistant manager at the A street walmart...

I want a .460 conversion, but thinking about the wait sucks. I still may breakdown and do it.

I don't leave home without my keys, wallet, and heat

 

[Fletch]

Maybe if his lawyer can stack his jury with crotchety old farts pissed off at the world he has a chance. I've learned never to say never. As stated by a few earlier if he does get off it will have dire consequences for stand your ground laws in Florida.

 

[Centermass556]

Somalia is flawed analogy... That is a zero sum environment with active aggressors

 

[JohnAL]

Maybe if his lawyer can stack his jury with crotchety old farts pissed off at the world he has a chance. I've learned never to say never. As stated by a few earlier if he does get off it will have dire consequences for stand your ground laws in Florida.

The old man can't use stand your ground. He started the altercation with his mouth. Again, I'm a crochety old fart and don't like most of the world but this guy was way out of bounds. This is not his first altercation in the same theater over texting. He should have changed seats if it bothered him so much.

 

[flyandscuba]

I dunno John - I don't think verbally reminding another patron of the rules regarding the use of electronic devices during the movie would be viewed as starting an altercation.

Whoever used threatening language first "I'm gonna kick you ass", etc. would be viewed as starting the altercation (assault). Standing up, posturing, throwing an object, physically touching someone (battery) would be viewed as escalation.

What the old fart should have considered doing was going to theater management and let them tell the other viewer to cease use of the electronic device or be ejected from the theater. Changing seats would have been another wise choice. Both of those would be wise "best choices".

However, asking someone to cease offensive behavior in public is not starting an altercation.

It will not be until we hear all of the witness testimony or statements before we can definitively pass judgement on the situation. It is no more correct for us to jump to conclusions - proclaiming that this was not a self defense situation, than to automatically invoke justification of the shooter's actions on the basis of "Stand Your Ground".

We just don't know enough at this time...

 

[CCHGN]

An off duty deputy was sitting next to the old man. His testamony will weigh heavy. I doubt if he felt threatened or he would have said something. I'd say the old man pulling his gun took him and everyone completely by surprise.


Btw, there is a point in the theater where they get on there and ask everyone to turn off their phones, usually just before the movie starts. That implies that any time before that is ok.

 

[Snow Bird]

Does anyone know if there was a no fire arms allowed sticker in the lobby?

 

[donr101395]

Does anyone know if there was a no fire arms allowed sticker in the lobby?

It wouldn't mean anything even if it were posted on the seat and flashed on the screen, especially since the guy with the gun is a retired deputy and covered under LEOSA.

 

[Snow Bird]

Thanks,

 

[JohnAL]

What the old fart should have considered doing was going to theater management and let them tell the other viewer to cease use of the electronic device or be ejected from the theater.

One story said that he did go to management and they brushed him off. Then when he got back to his seat the dead guy started taunting him about going to management.

Who knows. Like you say, we will have to wait until it's over and hopefully hear all the facts then.

 

[Centermass556]

One story said that he did go to management and they brushed him off. Then when he got back to his seat the dead guy started taunting him about going to management....

If that is the case, maybe Oulson deserved it..well didnt deserve getting shot, but damn sure deserved a good pistol whipping. Seems like Oulson wanted to continue the engagement. There has to be some point where the Grown-up inside of you steps up and you concede...especially in an instance like this.

everyone keeps saying Oulson was a kind a man and a few said he was not quick to anger...Then why did throw the popcorn or continue the argument.

The first blurb I was read made it seem as if Reeves stuck his nose where it didn't belong and got pissed when told to go get bent. But the articles I have read this afternoon are all kinda saying the same thing...

Oulson was texting. Reeves said something to him. Oulson didn't quit. Reeves told management. Upon reeves' return, Oulson continued the engagment and antagonized him about going to managment. Reeves returned words. Oulson threw the bag of popcorn at Reeves. Reeves reacted and shot.

I wish I could hear the trial on this.

 

[FrankT]

Hardly cause to kill a man let alone discharge a weapon in a crowded theater, you have to be pretty sick to do that in the first place.