Cop shoots 70 man.

[Little Jack]

No, I said that a cops main job is to come home every shift. Mainly to give ignorant people something to bitch about. You're a hypocrite, you will defend gun laws and cry that you are a free man and should be able to carry as u want...even defend your home. But you put down an officer for neutralizing what e perceived as a threat. Please tell me about your history, while you probably have me beat by a few years I guarantee you that I've been and will be confronted by more guns than you could possibly fathom. Enjoy your little exercise of freedom, hopefully you muster the testicular fortitude to handle your own business before calling 9-1-1...oh and before you shoot...take the extra minute to make sure that gun is real...wouldn't want you to shoot someone with a pellet gun or anything

The main job of an LE is PUBLIC SERVICE. The authority/responsibility that comes with that job should mean that they are held to a higher standard than civilians. You're arguing that an LE should have the same rights as a civilian but have the backing of the State/Gov to excercise those same rights in a less restricted manner. When you are acting as an LE you are no longer a civlian.

A civilian that wants to have a legal machine gun is fine becuase in all likely hood he's never going to use it on anything but some paper, cans and maybe an old washing machine. It's been shown that LE use their weapons on the citizenry resulting in more deaths than the number of LE killed annually. I would bet that most members on this forum, for better or worse, aren't going to count on LE to come save them in any time critical situation.

Using your reasoning, is the primary job of MIL only "to come home"?

Where's the sense of duty? What are you upholding and protecting when your safety is paramount? Is there a line in your oath that states "so long as I'm not in any danger, so help me God."?

 

[Clay]

It looked like a gun...cop told him to stop..what's the issue?

While still being empathetic to the situation, I agree 100%. His age doesn't preclude him from grabbing a shotgun, it's night and he grabbed what appeared to be a black cane which clearly was perceived as having a barrel. After 70 years on the planet, he should know better than to get out of his vehicle and walk toward a cop, then proceed to reach for anything. Cops have shot guys reaching for their cell phones because people don't listen. Traffic stops are notorious for high police mortality rates. I work with many WCSD and every one of them has echoed the same thing 'I'm going home at the end of the night" if someone doesn't listen or does something stupid, they have to live with that. Stay in your vehicle and keep your hands on the wheel, turn off the ignition and as a courtesy, pull far off the road and turn on the overhead light. It's a sad situation, but I believe the officer followed his training.

 

[Fletch]

I'm not a fan of overzealous policemen but I'm not so sure that's the case on this one. The LA cops letting loose on the paper route truck and the other poor bastard going surfing in his black truck was an over reaction......this one not so much imo. I guess they thought ex-cop turned physco Donner threw the surf board in the truck to catch some gnarly waves in between his promised cop killing spree.

The guy obviously wasn't to smart to get out and reach for a long black object in the dark. Everybody knows you don't get out and you dang sure don't go reaching into the bed of the truck.

I completely understand the sentiment to be against this cop but watch this video of the West Memphis shooting by the "sovereign citizen's" 14 year old for little perspective. Go to about the 5:30 mark. Watch how fast the kid comes out of the van with the long black thing pointed. How much time did these cops - who were slaughtered and lost their lives - have to ascertain what that kid was holding in his hands? 1 second maybe? These kind of videos are part of any standard police training and prove if they wait till the weapon is pointed at them then it's to late and lights out for them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikDsWtNQzcg

 

[M.O.A.]

The main job of an LE is PUBLIC SERVICE. The authority/responsibility that comes with that job should mean that they are held to a higher standard than civilians. You're arguing that an LE should have the same rights as a civilian but have the backing of the State/Gov to excercise those same rights in a less restricted manner. When you are acting as an LE you are no longer a civlian.

A civilian that wants to have a legal machine gun is fine becuase in all likely hood he's never going to use it on anything but some paper, cans and maybe an old washing machine. It's been shown that LE use their weapons on the citizenry resulting in more deaths than the number of LE killed annually. I would bet that most members on this forum, for better or worse, aren't going to count on LE to come save them in any time critical situation.

Using your reasoning, is the primary job of MIL only "to come home"?

Where's the sense of duty? What are you upholding and protecting when your safety is paramount? Is there a line in your oath that states "so long as I'm not in any danger, so help me God."?

Well said sir !

 

[flyandscuba]

Police are society's trash collectors. They come along after the fact (in most cases) to collect the trash (criminals) and take them to detention/jail (think solid waste transfer station) - what doesn't qualify for recycling (probation), goes to the landfill (prison).

The garbage man can no more prevent litter - than the police be expected to "protect" you or prevent crime.

 

[Droshki]

The main job of an LE is PUBLIC SERVICE. The authority/responsibility that comes with that job should mean that they are held to a higher standard than civilians. You're arguing that an LE should have the same rights as a civilian but have the backing of the State/Gov to excercise those same rights in a less restricted manner. When you are acting as an LE you are no longer a civlian.

A civilian that wants to have a legal machine gun is fine becuase in all likely hood he's never going to use it on anything but some paper, cans and maybe an old washing machine. It's been shown that LE use their weapons on the citizenry resulting in more deaths than the number of LE killed annually. I would bet that most members on this forum, for better or worse, aren't going to count on LE to come save them in any time critical situation.

Using your reasoning, is the primary job of MIL only "to come home"?

Where's the sense of duty? What are you upholding and protecting when your safety is paramount? Is there a line in your oath that states "so long as I'm not in any danger, so help me God."?

Seconded

 

[Dan1612]

Police are society's trash collectors. They come along after the fact (in most cases) to collect the trash (criminals) and take them to detention/jail (think solid waste transfer station) - what doesn't qualify for recycling (probation), goes to the landfill (prison).

The garbage man can no more prevent litter - than the police be expected to "protect" you or prevent crime.

Very, very well put.

 

[Fletch]

Just watched the West Memphis video to the end and forgot about the game warden who heard about the shooting on his radio, came from over 30 miles, and then upon coming on scene in the mall parking lot goes balls out ramming the van and proceeds to fire his AR-15 through the windshield of his truck while using the engine block and dash as cover from incoming rapid .223 fire at a distance of maybe 8 to 10 feet.

Talking about some courage and putting it on line in the name of public service. I want to be like him when I grow up. Not all cops are spineless rights abusers with itchy trigger fingers waiting to gun down old men for sneezing. And to think he took home the same crappy check at the end of the week and probably had to go work security just to give his family an average standard of living. Thanks for the courageous and selfless act that ended a deadly situation now here's a nice medal for ya.

 

[flyandscuba]

In watching the video - as soon as he had stopped firing, the officer knew he screwed up... That's why he holstered his sidearm before approaching the vehicle to render aid. It looked like most of the rounds launched down range impacted the truck rather than direct hits to the elderly driver. Maybe he was hit with indirect projectiles - thus his failure to be "neutralized"... Tough ol' coot!

 

[Ric-san]

IMO...the cop who shot the 'dumb; old man' is not justified. No I'm not a cop. Just twenty yrs in the Marines...If I would have shot a civilian overseas in theater (iraq/afghanistan)who I thought pulled a gun (cane) on me I'd be court-martialed, plain and simple. Yes the old guy wasn't thinking, but that in itself does not come close to deserving to be shot, again IHMO. My best friends are cops and we go over this stuff regularly (videos of shootings). I get their opinions, they mine. Both have been LEO's for over twenty yrs and are also former Marines. Some of the time we are 180* out opinion-wise, most of the time we agree

 

[Stagman]

I'm not a cop and have never been one and it's easy to pass judgment put yourself in the cops shoes he clearly thought the man had a gun.

 

[Overtime]

I would say 90% of LEO would have done the same thing, I've been pulled over countless times and have close to 15 traffic citations, and I've never been shot at...and if this guy wouldn't have got out of the vehicle neither would he. Seems as basic as stopping at a stop sign.

 

[Little Jack]

I'm not a cop and have never been one and it's easy to pass judgment put yourself in the cops shoes he clearly thought the man had a gun.

Stats dictate that civilians are less of a threat to LE.

That is not the mindset that is being taught or the general consensus in the population. Because most people think that way, they give LE a wide berth. In mind of the public it's OK that you have to tip toe around a LE and make sure you do everything in your power not to piss them off because they have a hard job. The public and the LE believe that a citizen has to comply with anything and everything a LE says (legal or not). When citizens don't comply they get shot at, tased, thrown to the ground, detained for disagreeing or failing to comply. The force used in these encounters is then viewed as justified because of the idea that officer safety trumps all else.

I'm all for LE using appropriate force when there is an actual threat. Dude, comes at an LE with hostile intent, game on. It's the idea that every encounter is going to be violent is causing unnecessary civilian injuries and death.

You'll argue that you don't know who/what/where the threat is coming from. Things can go sideways at any time. No shit. That's part of the job. Again, the numbers indicate that civilians are at a greater danger of being hurt by LE than the reverse.

All the guys on the side of the shooter seem to be OK with the keep your mouth shut, comply, don't do anything to piss off the cop. That's fine. I ask, is that how it's supposed to be? I realize doing that is less trouble, but is it right? Giving LE carte blanche to treat you as a threat all the time and being OK with it is the slow errosion of individual rights. What's a traffic stop going to look like in 20 years?

As Ric-san pointed out, the MIL was limited in their ability to engage. If the mil had the "just get home" attitude every LZ would have been blown to shit, just to be safe. Is that the right thing to do?

 

[HEIST]

I got pulled over around 11pm when I was 17. I opened my door because my window was tented and didnt roll down. I will never do it again, the cop that pulled me over put his gun through the cracked door straight to my head and ordered me to close the door. I did what he said and we waited for backup. Once everything calmed down he let me know not to open my door when I get pulled over and things will go alot smoother.. Lesson learned, also I wont drive when 1 headlight goes out again. I got off with a warning for his reaction though.

 

[Crazydoc68]

This is what happens when you do not comply.

Keep your mouth shut, do what you're told and you won't get shot.

Officer safety over public safety.

Shit when we were about to leave Afghanistan the ROE were so strict we could barely shoot unless these assholes shot at us first. There is an army captain serving 20 years in jail because of a "bad shoot". But yet cops can shoot someone for what looks like a gun. Most of these cops will never know what's it's like to actually get shot at and return well aimed fire. We were more responsible for what was beyond our targets than cops are even. And we were in a war. Not doing a traffic stop.

 

[Droshki]

Shit when we were about to leave Afghanistan the ROE were so strict we could barely shoot unless these assholes shot at us first. There is an army captain serving 20 years in jail because of a "bad shoot". But yet cops can shoot someone for what looks like a gun. Most of these cops will never know what's it's like to actually get shot at and return well aimed fire. We were more responsible for what was beyond our targets than cops are even. And we were in a war. Not doing a traffic stop.

There's a Pensacola cop a few pages back that will tell you that you "can't even fathom" the number of guns he's seen and dealt with, so you couldn't even begin to understand how dangerous a traffic stop is...... ::eyeroll::

 

[Crazydoc68]

I'd love to be able to remember just how many guns I saw over there. What's the population of Afghanistan? Well that answer times 10. So I'm pretty sure I've seen a few guns in my 12 month tour. How long has his career been. Love when cops compare being on the streets to a war. How many IED blasts did they survive? How many of these cops been in a 12hr long gun battle. Yes cops have a risky job but they volunteered to do it just like I did when I signed the dotted line. But both of us took an oath to PROTECT the public and our country.

 

[Droshki]

He went away when he found out that I wasn't the inexpereinced "civilian" that he thought I was

 

[Crazydoc68]

Imagine that. Believe me I'm not against LE. But someone(the public) should hold them accountable to a set standard also.

 

[Droshki]

I'm not either. I told him, my brother is a cop. I've ridden with him. I know the score.

But I also know BS when I see it.