Red dot on carry gun

[Rebel_Rider1969]

Me, for SD purposes ya probably wouldn't use the sights at SD ranges. Point and click.

 

[Fng1911]

I've trained with RDS for competition and SD. Hell, I draw from my appendix holster everyday to get the dot presentation. I have 5 Romeo 1, 2 RMR type 2, holosun 507K, and DPP. I've shot a friend's holosun 507c but never owned one. IMO RMR and Holosun are the most robust RDS for a carry gun. I've seen people shoot 5-7 yards the range in a calm slow fire environment and I'm not going to talk bad about them however, they can barely hit the target of even come close to the anticipated location they are trying to hit. I applaud then for owning a gun and trying practice with it. Enough about them, I condone using a red Dot on your carry gun and encourage others to do so. Once practiced/trained it'll speed up 1st shot by a many hundredths of a second and the follow up shots even faster.

 

[SAWMAN]

I totally agree with Nate in his above. People tend to believe that the BG engaugement distances will be LONG.
To me (IMO) long is >15yds. Some peoples philosophy is that " if I can put hits on COM at 25-40yds,I can quite easily put hits on COM at 3-5yds. This simply is not true. ESPECIALLY if you factor in the time thing. This is where a club timer is great.
Practice with a buddy. From buzzer - -> time to first shot,between shots,from different positions. All this at different distances. I have found that the real problems surface when you practice at 25yds+. You spend too much time aligning your sights. Then,at the REAL distances (3-5yds) you spend valuable time doing the same.
Red dots on competition/range/plinking/hunting guns is one thing,on real world combat guns ( EDC,SD,HD) is entirely different.
Another thing to consider for your EDC gun is this - -> why red dot sight vs a GREEN LASER ?? I would put my green laser up against a red dot sight any day of the week,at the "normal" BG engagement ranges. And in some cases,out to and past 25yds.
Every situation is different. We can't equip and train for every possible scenario. We all can just study the stats and find what works best for us.
In some cases the "you will fight like you train" thing will be true. HOWEVER - -> if you are a winner at the different competitions,that will not guarantee that you will be a winner in a gun battle on the street,at the gas station,or in your back yard at midnight. ---- SAWMAN

 

[FrommerStop]

Most gunfight distances are close and often occur after sunset. Yes it is true that by pointing the pistol in alignment your eyes and the target, called meat on the metal by some, can result in a lot of holes in the target. The pointing will be better aligned if one points naturally and instead holding the gun at a 90 degree or perpendicular to the ground to turn it to the right in slight homie position. The claim is that with standard human anatomy that this is'natural' for pointing. I once was watching a top bullseye shooter experimenting with that technique on a 50 yard bullseye target. (He was using the sights)

I have not tried it yet, but a red dot can be used with monocular night vision. For a right handed shooter aim with the right and use the monocular with the left eye like below. Supposedly the dot will be superimposed on what the left eye sees through the NV monocular. This was technique was used for hunting goblins in darkened structures.

 

[Fng1911]

I totally agree with Nate in his above. People tend to believe that the BG engaugement distances will be LONG.
To me (IMO) long is >15yds. Some peoples philosophy is that " if I can put hits on COM at 25-40yds,I can quite easily put hits on COM at 3-5yds. This simply is not true. ESPECIALLY if you factor in the time thing. This is where a club timer is great.
Practice with a buddy. From buzzer - -> time to first shot,between shots,from different positions. All this at different distances. I have found that the real problems surface when you practice at 25yds+. You spend too much time aligning your sights. Then,at the REAL distances (3-5yds) you spend valuable time doing the same.
Red dots on competition/range/plinking/hunting guns is one thing,on real world combat guns ( EDC,SD,HD) is entirely different.
Another thing to consider for your EDC gun is this - -> why red dot sight vs a GREEN LASER ?? I would put my green laser up against a red dot sight any day of the week,at the "normal" BG engagement ranges. And in some cases,out to and past 25yds.
Every situation is different. We can't equip and train for every possible scenario. We all can just study the stats and find what works best for us.
In some cases the "you will fight like you train" thing will be true. HOWEVER - -> if you are a winner at the different competitions,that will not guarantee that you will be a winner in a gun battle on the street,at the gas station,or in your back yard at midnight. ---- SAWMAN

Very well said and I agree, it's good to have these types of discussions. What works best for me doesn't work best for others. But I would put my RDS up against a laser any day of the week. But that's just me because I train with my RDS

 

[FrommerStop]

Very well said and I agree, it's good to have these types of discussions. What works best for me doesn't work best for others. But I would put my RDS up against a laser any day of the week. But that's just me because I train with my RDS

There are some ways that a laser might offer some advantage. On an irregular corner, with just enough of the head exposed for an eye to see withthe laser that can be held lower than the head one can shoot fairly well. Not sure if this is an advantage. I put a tiny laser on a keltec 32 and with that super tiny double action essentially almost sightless gun at 50 ft I hit the approximately 3 inch bullseye 3 out of five shots. I was resting the gun on a convenient surface at waist level.
I am not saying that is good technique, but it is possible.

 

[SAWMAN]

During practice with my laser mounted guns (Lasermax Guide Rod Laser) I have found that at below eye level,especially at waist level,trigger control gets to be a "challenge". Breast level,not too bad but not great.
Would suggest that using the laser equipped guns,the user should practice in this manner.
AND - -> you don't turn your long guns sideways do you ?? Soooooooo . . . ?? --- SAWMAN

 

[FrommerStop]

During practice with my laser mounted guns (Lasermax Guide Rod Laser) I have found that at below eye level,especially at waist level,trigger control gets to be a "challenge". Breast level,not too bad but not great.
Would suggest that using the laser equipped guns,the user should practice in this manner.
AND - -> you don't turn your long guns sideways do you ?? Soooooooo . . . ?? --- SAWMAN

A long gun is not a pistol and is not pointed with one hand in most cases. A pistol is designed to be fired from one hand and can certainly be so pointed. It handles quite differently from a long gun.
Everyone's body is different of course and the half homie may not for you. This is a suggestion for what some people use and is topic people discuss and not everyone agrees.

The best natural pointing pistol for me is colt army SA.45 with 7.5 inch barrel. This gun was meant to be used from a horse in combat and I assume it was often just pointed when on a moving horse.

 

[oneshot]

Take a grinder and grind the top smooth and learn to point shoot, that is what will happen in 99 % of all self defence shooting. your distance is going to be 20 feet and under and most likely 5 feet and under and most likely will happen at night and will most likely only happen one time in your life time, And most likely never happen to most of you. You just want to be ready if your number comes up. So this means you practice for that one time. Now if you want to play the shooting games learn to use a dot. This is not just my idea, this is proven, any one that don;t believe this come spend a day with me. Just remember you want be first in any situation, you are going to be second so you have to be better. You aren't going to have time look for that dot day are night more so. So think about this in real time. So buy more ammo and learn to pull the trigger, learn some tactics on survival of a attack.
Start looking a video's of real shooting and watch what happens. Have been there. Just my 5 cents jj

 

[FrommerStop]

Take a grinder and grind the top smooth and learn to point shoot, that is what will happen in 99 % of all self defence shooting. your distance is going to be 20 feet and under and most likely 5 feet and under and most likely will happen at night and will most likely only happen one time in your life time, And most likely never happen to most of you. You just want to be ready if your number comes up. So this means you practice for that one time. Now if you want to play the shooting games learn to use a dot. This is not just my idea, this is proven, any one that don;t believe this come spend a day with me. Just remember you want be first in any situation, you are going to be second so you have to be better. You aren't going to have time look for that dot day are night more so. So think about this in real time. So buy more ammo and learn to pull the trigger, learn some tactics on survival of a attack.
Start looking a video's of real shooting and watch what happens. Have been there. Just my 5 cents jj

Yes what you say is true.
But I sometimes do shoot snakes and other critters so aimed fire can be important.

 

[oneshot]

I didn't address shooting dogs snakes and other critters that is a difference can address that to . I have shot my share of snakes having spend a lot of my time in the woods and around pond fishing growing up. Have even went just shake hunting. This about CCW to live through an attact. Just my 5 cents jj

 

[SAWMAN]

That's right. Install a $450 red dot so you can hit a snake.
GOT IT - - - ->>> ??? ---- SAWMAN

 

[FrommerStop]

I didn't address shooting dogs snakes and other critters that is a difference can address that to . I have shot my share of snakes having spend a lot of my time in the woods and around pond fishing growing up. Have even went just shake hunting. This about CCW to live through an attact. Just my 5 cents jj

I am agreeing SD often required pointing and maybe contact shooting.
I always carry and never know what I will encounter on my little estate.
Last snake was shot in a wood pile 20 ft from the back door. A moccasin is just too dangerous not to kill ASAP if it is by the house where I may step on the it. If the snake is in the woods or swamps, I would not kill it since that is where they belong. I do not kill without a purpose. They are all god's creatures killing for fun is no longer for me.

I could conceivably have longer shots. I normally do not carry a shotgun or rifle about. There is a very bad neighborhood about 1/3 mile away if one goes through the creek bottom. I have smelled strong solvents around there that could be meth cooking. The RDS gives you an option of more precision if needed and the gun is still usable for pointing.

 

[JWlineman]

Sooo, back to the OP. There's a lot of info out there on rds handguns, here's a decent start.

AARs | Big Tex Outdoors

www.bigtexoutdoors.com

 

[FrommerStop]

That's right. Install a $450 red dot so you can hit a snake.
GOT IT - - - ->>> ??? ---- SAWMAN

I can hit anything with it. Could be a bear next time or a coyote or a meth head. They are not signing with an appointment book to announce the time of their arrival. To get a shotgun I have to get back to the house.
Cost is not cheap: To install properly usually requires a milled slide and suppressor sights for co-witness. Cost maybe too much for some. I will pay for it.

Relative to snakes I use to simply beat them to death or use a machete, but in recent years I have leaned toward a firearm.

 

[Fng1911]

I can hit anything with it. Could be a bear next time or a coyote or a meth head. They are not signing with an appointment book to announce the time of their arrival. To get a shotgun I have to get back to the house.
Cost is not cheap: To install properly usually requires a milled slide and suppressor sights for co-witness. Cost maybe too much for some. I will pay for it.

Relative to snakes I use to simply beat them to death or use a machete, but in recent years I have leaned toward a firearm.

Us people that cheat with RDS must stick together. I've used lasers but not my cup of tea. People that want them for whatever reason can use them.

 

[G-rat]

Now that I've hit 50, I have found the front sight to be difficult to pick up. With a red dot you look at the target, not the front sight so its much easier for me...

 

[Duckyou]

Devils advocate....

While I agree there are benefits to the red dot(just like on a rifle) there are some down sides and the utility is diminished when you consider the distances involved in most (not all) defensive engagements. Cost, bulk, batteries, training are all things to consider.

It's the cool thing to do but isn't necessary. Personally, I didn't see much benefit for aiming until past 15yds. Much more precise and as long as you present the weapon properly, the dot is easy to see.

This is the way.... maybe.

Iron sights always work. Good night sights are always on.

Then - at the likely range of 5-10 feet and with your heart going 10,000 beats a minute you will be doing little more than pointing.

Why complicate things.

 

[Little Jack]

Most gunfight distances are close and often occur after sunset. Yes it is true that by pointing the pistol in alignment your eyes and the target, called meat on the metal by some, can result in a lot of holes in the target. The pointing will be better aligned if one points naturally and instead holding the gun at a 90 degree or perpendicular to the ground to turn it to the right in slight homie position. The claim is that with standard human anatomy that this is'natural' for pointing. I once was watching a top bullseye shooter experimenting with that technique on a 50 yard bullseye target. (He was using the sights)

I have not tried it yet, but a red dot can be used with monocular night vision. For a right handed shooter aim with the right and use the monocular with the left eye like below. Supposedly the dot will be superimposed on what the left eye sees through the NV monocular. This was technique was used for hunting goblins in darkened structures.

View attachment 101285

I don't shoot people for a living.......

Holy Christmas!!!

OP: RDS on a ccw anyone?
Frommer: check this shit out!! I love me some tangents

 

[donr101395]

may have been asked before doses anyone do it and doses it stay on target

Yes and yes depending on your skill with the fundamentals.


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