Developers Are Destroying North Pace

[863jfk]

Hell where I'm at. Used to be nothing but orange groves and cow pasture. Now it's subdivisions and apartment buildings. Seems like you can't get an acre out here for less than 100,000 with nothing on it.

 

[Telum Pisces]

I'll constantly be moving out to the edges of civilization. Moved out to Baker. If civilization comes to us here, I'll find another area.


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[MarkS]

I'll constantly be moving out to the edges of civilization. Moved out to Baker. If civilization comes to us here, I'll find another area.


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We use to hunt the woods where your neighborhood is 40 years ago


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[Telum Pisces]

We use to hunt the woods where your neighborhood is 40 years ago


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Yep, I hunt a lot of woods around here. Some is a private plot of 50 acres. Land owner is talking about selling to a developer to try and put in another neighborhood on that 50 acres here in Milligan/Baker. I'm allowed to hunt till the dozers come in! Haha

I'm sure in 40 years I'll be saying the same about a lot of this land in the Baker area. The Crestview bypass I think will open up the south end of Baker here in Milligan to more houses for sure!

 

[MarkS]

One of my neighbors where I grew up in Milligan bought up most of the homes in my old neighborhood and has refurbished them. He then sold them to folks from up north for a lot more than any of them were worth IMO. I still remember one of my distant cousins wife making him build a driveway so she didn’t have to drive home through the slums


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[Idoono]

It is the same over in Panama. People who live here can't afford to buy houses. When I built my retirement home on 10 acres town seemed a long way away.....now, not so much. Give it another 10 years and Panama City to Pensacol will be just like Tampa / St. Pete / Clearwater is now.

Idoono

 

[Ron]

Yes sir, I included you in that phase, but I didn’t mean it as an insult. Money is what motivated me to work as hard as I did. Some folks say I was just lucky, but it seemed that the harder I worked the luckier I got.

My dad worked hard, all it got him was more work!

 

[justapilgrim]

It’s not ideal, but it’s basic economic principles at work.

Things I hear people say:
“We want affordable housing.”
“We want good jobs and industry.”
“We want to be close to amenities.”
“We want more infrastructure.”
“We want to stay rural.”
“It’s growing too fast.”

Well, you can’t have it all…

"You can't have it all" ...true that, but everyone wants to find their own version of paradise, move there and then padlock the gate behind them to keep others from doing the same. Humans are gonna do what humans do....ain't no fixing 'em.

 

[MarkS]

As much as I dislike what has been done to this area I did make a fairly good living helping to make it possible


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[lettheairout]

**Old land owners are selling out and destroying North Pace**

Fixed it for you

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Let me fix it for you. Old land owners have died, the kids are selling it off to make the most they can.

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[Michael888]

debt is slavery....

Why I have NONE and have Not had any debt for 8 years Now THANKYOUGOD

 

[Longtooth]

The communists are freaking out right now. China has a housing bubble bursting right now, today. And a lot of American mortgages are owned by the Chinese mega corporations, all controlled by the Chinese government. A few years ago China was on record as that years largest buyer of American mortgages as investments, driving prices up as investors flipped houses for more and more money. Chances are actually pretty good that if you have a mortgage then China owns a percentage of your mortgage or a percentage of the bank that owns your mortgage. We will see this domino effect the whole industry here. Only question is how bad will it be? But we won't know for a little while. When Lehman failed in 2007-2008 it dropped by only like 50%, and it sparked a depression greater than the Great Depression (that we're still fighting to escape and with the amount of money that was printed we won't ever truly escape in our lifetimes) and now we see that this Chinese mega corporation just dropped by 90%, far surpassing Lehman's 50%... the collapse of the American housing bubble could be upon us tomorrow morning

Iv seen reports like this for weeks- Ever since the Evergrand story broke. I don't doubt there will be negative consequences, but the big question is when? I can't just take my life savings to buy cans of food and turtle on my property every time there is some bad news. :/

 

[FLT]

Those housing bubbles have made me a lot of money over the years . This one will likely do the same thing , the realtors and bankers get the most lucrative ones but if your careful and pay attention it’s possible to double you money in a reasonably short time period.

 

[John B.]

More like... View attachment 143586

Don't do Dale like that.

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[WRM]

A few years back, our legislature decided to dismantle the DCA (Dept of Community Affairs) and gut the Growth Management Act. “So what?”, you say. The Act required “concurrency” in development, which is a shorthand way of saying developers would have to pay for the impacts their new developments created (read that as: the consumer would pay, because, as we all know, it’s just passed down to the masses). The DCA’s considerable job was holding localities to account for actually doing what the Act required. Many (most, maybe) localities hated this. Santa Rosa was a lead hater—“it’ll cripple our ability to grow”. Ironically, one of the main claims was: “it just adds too much to the cost of a home”. Well, guess what, the ability to develop is virtually unfettered now, and look at what we are reaping from it!


Counties are free to require concurrency if they choose to. Escambia County actually is now looking at reinstating concurrency, because the infrastructure issues they have created without it are becoming overwhelming. Look at what one new school (much less road work) costs. Santa Rosa is about to be beyond the tipping point if they don’t do it as well. Good luck with that, though! The old Flying Mayor of Milton (the original, not the later pretender to that throne, whom I don't know) led the charge for years to ensure growth would happen and at all costs.


My grandfather came here in the first half of the 1900s to work in the Bagdad timber industry. I grew up here. We’ve been here a minute. There is very little I see that has changed “for the better” at this point. That is my opinion. If you disagree, I couldn’t care less. If I live an actuarial lifespan, I expect to be able to jump roof to roof from here to the Alabama line before I go out. And, you’ll have to, because you dang sure won’t have enough time in the day to drive on the woefully inadequate roads available. I expect that many roads now would be approaching the old standard of LOS (level of service) F under the Act. Development was supposed to have to pay to keep that from happening. Now who pays for it (if it even happens)? That’s right, the taxpayers in direct dollars, and then all of us by wasting our time sitting in traffic and accidents. I have nothing against developers, but I’ve sure never had one send me a check for my troubles.


Everyone here should say this prayer at night: “and please dear, sweet, 8lb 9 oz, first born, Baby Jesus, don’t let the Feds close Eglin AFB and sell it off for development”. Every square inch would be dozed and developed as fast as possible.


Peace—if you can find it, and good luck with that!

 

[M60Gunner]

Now they are planning an RV park off hidden oak just past 10 mile. Plan to go to the meetings and signed the petition but bet it’s a done deal

 

[WRM]

Now they are planning an RV park off hidden oak just past 10 mile. Plan to go to the meetings and signed the petition but bet it’s a done deal

You're dealing with the people who think the Pea Ridge Connector is a good deal for us. Yeah--let's connect the poor guy who moved next to Pond Creek years ago to "get away from it all" to Hwy 90. Hey--maybe somebody might want to develop this ol land next to this thing without having to build a road out. And the beat goes on.

 

[nrajeeper]

If you are on FB, look up "Save our Soundside". This group - i think just 1 woman - does a good job of tracking developments in the Santa Rosa county area and other environmental topics. I don't agree with all that is posted but it's a good source for info IMO.

Below are some highlights they took from another individual's post -

Jubilee Development Alert No. 5:
Friends of northern Santa Rosa County, Jubilee has submitted their proposed plans for phase 1 of the development of the 2700 acres they own in our area. Since most of us are children of the 70’s and 80’s, I’ll use some references we can all understand and relate to.
First impressions…. ***cue Robin, Boy Wonder, with his amazing witticisms***
“Holy Crap Batman”
Phase 1 will encompass an area of 260.03 acres, connecting via Mahogany Rd. After putting in roads, required stormwater ponds, etc…, the area will still have 260 homes. When looking at the attached plans, lot sizes are anywhere from 6000 to 9600 square feet. Now for all of you Alabama fans out there, I’m only an Auburn graduate, but even my limited math abilities show that these lot sizes equate to only 0.14 to 0.22 acres, or nowhere close to one home per acre in accordance with the AG-RR zoning designation. “How can this possibly be” you might wonder. After all, the area is zoned AG-RR which means one home per acre, and Table 2.06.01.a of the Land Development Code even states the minimum lot size for AG-RR must be 43,560 sq. ft.
***Cue Ronco Commercial*** (I'm dating myself with that one)
“But Wait, There’s More”
Apparently, in Santa Rosa County, under the alternative subdivisions process, developers can now get credit for things such as stormwater ponds, undevelopable wetlands, etc… As such, they don’t necessarily have to comply with “minimum lot sizes” stated elsewhere in the Land Development Code as long as the allowable density “for the overall area” isn’t exceeded. Let that sink in for a minute…. Lot sizes are no longer necessarily based on the buildable area. For phase 1 of Jubilee, this means that when the developer constructs the infrastructure needed to not flood the surrounding areas, when they have to leave wetlands alone that they knew were on the property, and when they have to put in, oh roads, the remaining buildable area lot sizes will only be 6000 – 9600 square feet, or four to six/seven homes per acre (which by the way is equivalent to R1 and R1A zoning), and not 43,560 square feet which is the normal lot size for AG-RR. Thanks to this change to the Land Development Code, this is a way for developers to effectively rezone an area without having to go through due process.
So what does this mean to you as someone who has chosen to live in rural north Santa Rosa County? First, for those who live from Five Points to the Chumuckla/Willard Norris intersection, your rural lifestyle is about to go away. In earlier alerts, I questioned whether or not the developer would take into account the existing rural characteristics of the area and do something to complement the same, or would they try to change it completely. I think we now have the answer. Rather than taking the approach of those who have developed Buffalo Ridge, Nobles Plantation, Saddle Club and other areas, developers who made the effort to build upon the rural nature of the area, Jubilee instead wants to change the area to suburban. At the end of the day, Jubilee holds an area encompassing 2700 acres. Development will not stop at the first 260 acres. It will continue, and will continue in an area that is 4.2 square miles in size. To put this in perspective, it is roughly three quarters the size of the incorporated limits of the City of Milton (5.8 square miles).
Second, do not think that other developers will not start taking advantage of the same items. Do not assume that you will not see homesites much smaller, and in much greater numbers than you otherwise thought possible in other portions of District 3. By giving developers credit for things the developers must do anyway, the County has effectively given them a back door to much smaller homesites. Developers will play word games, trying to say that the density for the overall area hasn’t increased, but in effect they are being allowed to place more homes in the buildable area than they would previously have been allowed. Again, this is tantamount to rezoning, and there are no notices and no hearings.

 

[WRM]

Now you see how the sausage get made!

One of our long time local developers has sued an individual for defaming his good name based on posts, I believe, placed on that site. It may even be it was the person who runs the site--don't know. I read the posts, and it appeared related to info on flood insurance. Not sure how that's libelous, but you see what the stakes are now.

As I noted earlier, you'll be jumping roof to roof to the AL line before long. That was not an exaggeration.

 

[LowRiderRed]

If you are on FB, look up "Save our Soundside". This group - i think just 1 woman - does a good job of tracking developments in the Santa Rosa county area and other environmental topics. I don't agree with all that is posted but it's a good source for info IMO.

Below are some highlights they took from another individual's post -

Jubilee Development Alert No. 5:
Friends of northern Santa Rosa County, Jubilee has submitted their proposed plans for phase 1 of the development of the 2700 acres they own in our area. Since most of us are children of the 70’s and 80’s, I’ll use some references we can all understand and relate to.
First impressions…. ***cue Robin, Boy Wonder, with his amazing witticisms***
“Holy Crap Batman”
Phase 1 will encompass an area of 260.03 acres, connecting via Mahogany Rd. After putting in roads, required stormwater ponds, etc…, the area will still have 260 homes. When looking at the attached plans, lot sizes are anywhere from 6000 to 9600 square feet. Now for all of you Alabama fans out there, I’m only an Auburn graduate, but even my limited math abilities show that these lot sizes equate to only 0.14 to 0.22 acres, or nowhere close to one home per acre in accordance with the AG-RR zoning designation. “How can this possibly be” you might wonder. After all, the area is zoned AG-RR which means one home per acre, and Table 2.06.01.a of the Land Development Code even states the minimum lot size for AG-RR must be 43,560 sq. ft.
***Cue Ronco Commercial*** (I'm dating myself with that one)
“But Wait, There’s More”
Apparently, in Santa Rosa County, under the alternative subdivisions process, developers can now get credit for things such as stormwater ponds, undevelopable wetlands, etc… As such, they don’t necessarily have to comply with “minimum lot sizes” stated elsewhere in the Land Development Code as long as the allowable density “for the overall area” isn’t exceeded. Let that sink in for a minute…. Lot sizes are no longer necessarily based on the buildable area. For phase 1 of Jubilee, this means that when the developer constructs the infrastructure needed to not flood the surrounding areas, when they have to leave wetlands alone that they knew were on the property, and when they have to put in, oh roads, the remaining buildable area lot sizes will only be 6000 – 9600 square feet, or four to six/seven homes per acre (which by the way is equivalent to R1 and R1A zoning), and not 43,560 square feet which is the normal lot size for AG-RR. Thanks to this change to the Land Development Code, this is a way for developers to effectively rezone an area without having to go through due process.
So what does this mean to you as someone who has chosen to live in rural north Santa Rosa County? First, for those who live from Five Points to the Chumuckla/Willard Norris intersection, your rural lifestyle is about to go away. In earlier alerts, I questioned whether or not the developer would take into account the existing rural characteristics of the area and do something to complement the same, or would they try to change it completely. I think we now have the answer. Rather than taking the approach of those who have developed Buffalo Ridge, Nobles Plantation, Saddle Club and other areas, developers who made the effort to build upon the rural nature of the area, Jubilee instead wants to change the area to suburban. At the end of the day, Jubilee holds an area encompassing 2700 acres. Development will not stop at the first 260 acres. It will continue, and will continue in an area that is 4.2 square miles in size. To put this in perspective, it is roughly three quarters the size of the incorporated limits of the City of Milton (5.8 square miles).
Second, do not think that other developers will not start taking advantage of the same items. Do not assume that you will not see homesites much smaller, and in much greater numbers than you otherwise thought possible in other portions of District 3. By giving developers credit for things the developers must do anyway, the County has effectively given them a back door to much smaller homesites. Developers will play word games, trying to say that the density for the overall area hasn’t increased, but in effect they are being allowed to place more homes in the buildable area than they would previously have been allowed. Again, this is tantamount to rezoning, and there are no notices and no hearings.

Any idea when this is dated?