Why has the 40S&W fallen out of favor as of late?

[FrommerStop]

I bought a S&W Sigma .40 back in the 1990’s…my first “new” handgun. I’ve put close to 1,000 rds through it, even with its heavy trigger, I’m use to it muscle memory wise and keep it loaded and ready even though I have a platoon of 9mm’s available (at home). The Sigma was the S&W answer to the Glock and at the time a hundred dollars cheaper.

My sigma in 9mm even after being badly abused has always gone bang when the trigger was pulled. But the heavy trigger is a problem in that accurate fire is very slow.

 

[Bay Ranger]

I have a USP .40 and love it for the range. I was able to get a bunch of .40 at auction off of Gunbroker. Actually during the ammo shortage several year ago I was able to buy .40 cheaper than 9mm. That being said, I would not carry my full size USP.

 

[Bamaboy19]

I have a USP .40 and love it for the range. I was able to get a bunch of .40 at auction off of Gunbroker. Actually during the ammo shortage several year ago I was able to buy .40 cheaper than 9mm. That being said, I would not carry my full size USP.

I do! I do have a compact as well, bought a P30 last year and traded it away to buy a new P30ls, and I've been looking at getting a P2000sk, because they come in .40 and the new sk models don't. I buy ammo when ever a deal presents itself; GB auctions, here on GCGF, sale emails! Anyone needing to clear out any unwanted.40, HMU!

 

[frankthediver]

I have to wonder why the 40S&W has fallen out of favor to most folks? I see them for sale with little to no interest and just bump bump bump.
I have a sig 226 in .40 and really like it, I admit I'm not much of a numbers and research person, so I ask why no interest? Ammo cost? it's not too bad, Mag capacity? not too different than a 9mm. Power? or a combination of everything?
I'd like to hear your theory or reasons. Thanks

I have Glock .40 and love them. It is crazy how things evolve. They are phasing out the .338 Lapua as well and I like the .338. Makes no sense.

 

[Pierre]

One reason for the decline of the 40 is most departments found that more people qualified with the 9mm vs the 40 cal...so with the 40 meant more time on the range and more expense due to greater ammo consumption.

 

[Blindeye]

I'm a surgeon, and I've removed 2 40 S&W bullets from 2 separate people: both hollowpoints that were perfectly expanded to about .60 inch. I measured the base myself (in the OR), and confirmed with cops afterwards that they were 40 S&W.

I own 3 pistols in that caliber, my favorite being a Walther PPS. I had the slide and barrel ported on the Walther because muzzle flip slowed my target acquisition on follow up shots.

It's a great caliber. The 41 AE was better.

 

[FrommerStop]

I'm a surgeon, and I've removed 2 40 S&W bullets from 2 separate people: both hollowpoints that were perfectly expanded to about .60 inch. I measured the base myself (in the OR), and confirmed with cops afterwards that they were 40 S&W.

I own 3 pistols in that caliber, my favorite being a Walther PPS. I had the slide and barrel ported on the Walther because muzzle flip slowed my target acquisition on follow up shots.

It's a great caliber. The 41 AE was better.

The 41 AE IIRC had a rebated rim, that is a reduced rim diameter. This was to make a conversion from a 9mm easier to accomplish since one could use the same slide. The 10mm & 40 S&W made the 41 action express obsolete. A rebated rim can in theory cause functional issues relative to feeding .
Below 41 AE and 9x19mm. The rim diameters are the same.
There used to be a Trauma surgeon that was at WT prior to the schism. I was barnetmill over there.

 

[Blindeye]

Yes, the 41 AE is obsolete now. You can make the brass by trimming the length and rim diameter of 10mm.
The 41 AE can be loaded slightly hotter than the 40 S&W.
I'm a neurosurgeon, and both GSW cases with the 40 were adjacent to the spine.

 

[Combatcarl43]

the great caliber debate is over. ALL handgun calibers are pretty bad but .40 has a much snappier recoil impulse. as usual when the FBI switched over to 9mm, so did most police departments. when that happens, civilians seem to think the fed bois and LEOs are some kind of experts and they tend to follow trends. 9mm is cheaper usually, widely available, guns generally hold more boolits and the recoil is less. just my 2 cents tho as i'm no expert either... i'l wait for @Rebel_Rider1969 to start with the .45acp is better, 2 world wars comments any second...

Alot of the fed switch to .40 was post Miami shootout. Feds wanted to go to 10mm. But female agents had a hard time managing. So they went to .40 (IIRC) Then a combination of time, bullet tech, cost and 9mm being easier to shoot they changed again.

 

[Midnight son]

No one has mentioned the expiration of the awb in (`94-`04). During those 10 years if you could only have 10 rounds in the same size gun, .40 made more sense than 9. A positive aspect imo during the ban was the resurgence of the 1911 in .45 for the same reasons, limited capacity.

With mag bans effectively over and advancements in ammunition capabilities, the 9 makes the most sense.

Cost, ease of shooting, effectiveness and capacity rule. Only reason the 1911 has hung on and is popular as ever is because of the platform.

As an aside, .40 used to be very popular in uspsa but rule changes and the fact that everyone wants to shoot a low recoil gun without scoring handicaps made it a relic.

 

[condoor]

I have to wonder why the 40S&W has fallen out of favor to most folks? I see them for sale with little to no interest and just bump bump bump.
I have a sig 226 in .40 and really like it, I admit I'm not much of a numbers and research person, so I ask why no interest? Ammo cost? it's not too bad, Mag capacity? not too different than a 9mm. Power? or a combination of everything?
I'd like to hear your theory or reasons. Thanks

The problem .40 was designed to address no longer exists. The .40 officially debuted in 1990, but it was really born in 1986 from the now infamous FBI shootout where a 9mm silvertip failed to penetrate and incapacitate the bad guy. They (gun industry, fbi, the man) tried to solve this with new mo betta cartridges and developed the 10mm. (awesome round) The FBI created protocols and minimum standards for testing the various calibers and projectiles through different medium with expected penetration and expansion parameters. The 10mm turned out to be way too much for the average patrol or alphabet officer to handle, so hence the .40 - the shortened, easier to carry and shoot .40 was born. That worked for a while, but then some engineer somewhere realized that they could engineer a better hollow point that expands AND penetrates and thus the birth of "modern hollowpoint ammuntion". Fast forward to today and like others have said - what they discovered is that with "modern hollowpoint" ammunition that all of the self defense calibers are very, very similar - they all suck. 9mm came back into favor because it is able to achieve the minimum standards for penetration and expansion in a cost effective, concealable, and controllable package that is attractive to departments and individuals. Nothing wrong with the 40.

(combatcarl said the same thing while I was posting - lol)

 

[chef_josh]

The industry term for .40 S&W became the “40 S& breaker” amongst forearm companies around 2005. It’s a high pressure load and it exerts significantly more wear than 9mm.

All of the armorers and smiths for the major companies will tell you that Glocks (and all other manufacturers, including steel frames) will break in less than 20k rounds in .40.

All these guys on the internet saying “well I’ve got 40k rounds through my Glock 23” are full of it.

Ask any armorer. Ask any engineer for any firearms company. Ask any instructor for one of the major training academies who see several thousand students annually. 40’s break.

 

[ABlaster]

Might have been the gun , but was once issue a Beretta 40 cal as a duty weapon. And it was the least accurate handgun I ever used . It did not group , it patterned. Lol

What kind of Beretta? Just curious.

Like G-Rat said, what the FBI does, most of American LE does as well. If they had stayed in .40, I have no doubt 90% of the agencies in the US that switched (back, probably) to 9mm would have stayed where they were. Never underestimate how much state, county, and local LE agencies look to the FBI for leadership on that topic. Even the FBI's tests showed the .40 was a superior stopping round. Modern 9mm got close, but it didn't beat it. "Close" became "close enough" became "as good as" to a lot of people, but the fact is if you're looking to the FBI's tests to choose a carry round, you would choose a .40 cal.

Of course, like one of my old bosses used to say "The two most overrated things in America are home cooking and the FBI."

 

[ABlaster]

The industry term for .40 S&W became the “40 S& breaker” amongst forearm companies around 2005. It’s a high pressure load and it exerts significantly more wear than 9mm.

All of the armorers and smiths for the major companies will tell you that Glocks (and all other manufacturers, including steel frames) will break in less than 20k rounds in .40.

All these guys on the internet saying “well I’ve got 40k rounds through my Glock 23” are full of it.

Ask any armorer. Ask any engineer for any firearms company. Ask any instructor for one of the major training academies who see several thousand students annually. 40’s break.

Not entirely true. I am a Glock armorer and used to be a serious USPSA competitor. My first Glock 35 lasted over 100,000 rounds before the slide cracked and I'm closing in on 65,000 rounds on the second one. These are a lot newer than 2005, so maybe the generational differences fixed the weak spots. Not saying .40 isn't hard on guns, though. On my Staccato .40 I snap the front sight off about every 10K rounds. The slide has been replaced on that Staccato twice, but the frame easily has 250,000 rounds on it.

I worked for a place that issued a Beretta 96D and some very spicy ammo to go with it. We were required to turn the gun in every 5,000 rounds for inspection because of issues with the gun/ammo combo.

 

[Bamaboy19]

The industry term for .40 S&W became the “40 S& breaker” amongst forearm companies around 2005. It’s a high pressure load and it exerts significantly more wear than 9mm.

All of the armorers and smiths for the major companies will tell you that Glocks (and all other manufacturers, including steel frames) will break in less than 20k rounds in .40.

All these guys on the internet saying “well I’ve got 40k rounds through my Glock 23” are full of it.

Ask any armorer. Ask any engineer for any firearms company. Ask any instructor for one of the major training academies who see several thousand students annually. 40’s break.

The HK USP was engineered for .40 to begin with, the 9mm came later. Being so robust, they added .45ACP! I don't know my round count, but I know I've owned at least one USP .40 for close to 30 years.
I'll admit that I am way more accurate with my Hi power clone in 9mm, like groups at 50yds! So it's my carry pistol...

 

[Bodhi]

I don’t think anyone has mentioned cost. New 9mm is about half the cost of new .40 (ammoseek.com) per round.

 

[FrommerStop]

I don’t think anyone has mentioned cost. New 9mm is about half the cost of new .40 (ammoseek.com) per round.

That is a most potent argument for sure. An empty pistol is not worth a whole lot. Right now I am working on a case of wolf 40 that I purchase a long time ago. But it seems tp be a little underloaded and I have to lube the glock for it to function with the wolf. I added a much heavier wolff spring to it for heavy loads. I need to start loading mine on and I am setting up my press. I have a lot of .40 brass.

 

[850guns]

I have both. Like both. Bought glock and m&p in .40, and got 9mm conversion barrels. Also m&p midsized .40 and got a 9mm slide assembly from a member here.
Also have 9 and 40 Banshees and S2K

Besides what others have mentioned, I will say the .40 is king on a steel range. While I don't recall using much sd ammo on a steel range, the .40 puts the target down with authority! The 9 would sometimes require 2 shots.

Just sayin'...

 

[Brockskennedy]

People will make valid points as to why 9mm returned so strong in law enforcement and I will not say 9mm is a bad cartridge. With that said I will never follow the military/ or law enforcements lead on cartridge selection as cost has a lot to do with it.

9mm is a great cartridge, but to many people try to make claims about it having better ballistic performance. This simply isn’t true. If you push a heavier wider bullet faster you are going to get better terminal ballistics.

The next argument is snappyness. Although this is true that there more felt recoil, it is not as much as people portray in my opinion.

If you can’t shoot a 40 well, don’t carry it or you can train more. If you do shoot it well then carry it because it is a better performing cartridge.

 

[Bodhi]

People will make valid points as to why 9mm returned so strong in law enforcement and I will not say 9mm is a bad cartridge. With that said I will never follow the military/ or law enforcements lead on cartridge selection as cost has a lot to do with it.

9mm is a great cartridge, but to many people try to make claims about it having better ballistic performance. This simply isn’t true. If you push a heavier wider bullet faster you are going to get better terminal ballistics.

The next argument is snappyness. Although this is true that there more felt recoil, it is not as much as people portray in my opinion.

If you can’t shoot a 40 well, don’t carry it or you can train more. If you do shoot it well then carry it because it is a better performing cartridge.

I agree that size matters - assuming one can be accurate. But that said, actual bullet construction and development has gotten better over the last 20 years or so too, so that the “performance envelope” of each caliber has improved. In other words, we don’t see bullets designed for SD fail to perform their function when they impact their target.