old gun, old ammo, old shooter

[JohnAL]

I purchased my Remington Model 700 BDL .25-06 around 1971 when I was stationed in Montana. It has made over 50 one shot kills on deer and an uncountable number of prairie dogs. I had replaced the 1980 vintage Redfield scope and needed to sight it in. I also had some test reloads to shoot off. I got the Nikon 4x12x40 zeroed with no problem. Actually my old method of bore sighting through the barrel to a spot on a tree and aligning the scope to that was within 2" at 50 yards. I used my test reloads to get it on at 100. I had the last 4 rounds of my hunting loads that I built around 1982 in my bag so I decided to try for a group on a clean target. Sawman would have fussed at me for shooting with the barrel so hot but it was closing time at Styx and I wanted to finish up.

I don't think this is too bad for 30+ year old ammo, a 40+ year old rifle, and a 60+ year old man with a smoking hot barrel. Measure it any way you want, it is just under 3/4". I have used this same load for deer since 1972 and have never found a reason to change. The Nosler Partition bullets have never failed me.

The rifle actually shoots tighter with lighter bullets that I will have to try the next trip.

 

[FrankT]

Nice shooting there John.

 

[dirtyharry]

Very impressive

 

[JohnAL]

Thanks guys. Oh, I forgot. No rear rest. The sand bags at Styx were dripping wet from a rain. I just used my fist for a rear rest.

Yeah, I'm braggin'.

 

[DrifterFisher]

John.I think you are selling your self short. How do you measure? In the rimfire games I play we measure 3-4 shot holes to get the average hole diameter,then we measure the widest part of the group shot and subtract the average hole diameter from the group to get center to center. Makes it sound better and it give the true group size, across all bullet diameters.

BTW,good shootin

 

[SAWMAN]

Several "concerns". 4 shots ??? Wuzzupwitdat ?? Seems that I see some evidence of powder burns on that target paper. OR.....the ol' #2 pencil, darkened with sight black, pushed thru the paper "just where you want it" huh ?? Are those little squares 1 inch. If so that is a 2" group right ??

Good shootin' John. The 25-'06 is a great chambering. The wide range of bullets available and the greater powder capacity of the brass allow for the great speeds and super trajectories at the longer ranges. This round is great for woodchucks at the longer ranges,the bigger white tailed deer,and black bear(with the right bullet). All...first hand knowledge,in Maine.

Anyway........have you ever hit one of these 90lb Flah-Dah deer with a NosPart ?? I quickly switched from my use of the much loved Partitions when I moved down here. They would zip right through these "smallish" deer,they would run,then I would find them dead 50-75yds away. OK in the middle of a 5A food plot...however...where I hunt,if they go 75yds,it would be a tough find and a even tougher drag. I soon switched to a much lighter,higher speed bullet. I now use a 120gr in my 7mm Rem mag,a 130gr in my 308Win,and a 85gr outta my 6.8SPC.(NOTE: I always shoot heart/lungs shots.)

DF, real way to measure a group is, outside to outside of the furtherest apart holes,then subtract the bullets diameter. This is used for any caliber(diameter)bullet.

I do it like this.......I shoot 30-50 shots at the same target,pick 2 of the closest ones then use the above formula. John taught me this. --- SAWMAN

 

[JohnAL]

DriftFisher, I measure the way SAWMAN said. It has always been my understanding that was the proper way to measure. Never heard of averaging anything.

SAWMAN, The very few deer I have had to track were heart/lung shots, no matter the bullet. Even though the chest cavity contained nothing but strawberry jam they still ran 20-40 yards or until the brain runs out of oxygen. I found one 40 yards down the trail under a bush, looking back the way he came, stone dead in a pool of blood. In my old age and with the performance I have had from the Partitions, if I have the option I go for near shoulder or shoot through to the opposite shoulder shots if they are quartering away. I have never had one to run off with shoulder shot. I have shot a couple of little Alabama does up in the center of the state in Bibb County. They were really close, like 15-20 yards. With shoulder shots the Noslers were through and through but maybe 2-3" exit after hitting all the bone. I have loaded up my little shorty .308s with 130 Barnes XTP bullets but I still had $50 worth of Partitions in .257 so I'll use them until they are gone.

The next time we go to the range I'll bring it and let you see what it does wit 75 grain Sierra HP. Something like this:

 

[SAWMAN]

Iffen you wuz a "real man" you would have bought that 257Wby that we looked at last week. I betcha that guy would take your 06' in trade. Of course .....I probably should have picked up that 416Rigby also....soooooooo.....?

But then......... > the above is some pretty damn good shooting using them older Weavers. According to my calculations that 5/16" group equates to just about an inch...right ?? ---- SAWMAN

 

[JohnAL]

That .416 sure was pretty. It's still in the back of my mind but it's too much for my old bones.

 

[wildrider666]

OG's rule! So do old guns.

 

[Fishyfingers]

SAWMAN, The very few deer I have had to track were heart/lung shots, no matter the bullet. Even though the chest cavity contained nothing but strawberry jam they still ran 20-40 yards or until the brain runs out of oxygen. I found one 40 yards down the trail under a bush, looking back the way he came, stone dead in a pool of blood. In my old age and with the performance I have had from the Partitions, if I have the option I go for near shoulder or shoot through to the opposite shoulder shots if they are quartering away. I have never had one to run off with shoulder shot. I have shot a couple of little Alabama does up in the center of the state in Bibb County. They were really close, like 15-20 yards. With shoulder shots the Noslers were through and through but maybe 2-3" exit after hitting all the bone. I have loaded up my little shorty .308s with 130 Barnes XTP bullets but I still had $50 worth of Partitions in .257 so I'll use them until they are gone.

I hunt a Remington 700 SPS, much newer but also in 25-06, and have had consistently similar results. Very few whitetail or hogs I've taken have had exit wounds but those that didn't drop on the spot have not gone more than 20-30 yrds and the vitals appaered to have been run through a blender.
Nice shooting!

 

[ilintner]

Nice shooting John!

 

[SAWMAN]

How's this John.......you buy it,I'll reload for it,and we'll get Bruce to sight it in for us. It would certainly have the recoil of a 300BarackObama,sub load,right ?? --- SAWMAN

 

[JohnAL]

LOL Bill.
It would actually be a consideration but I don't think there is but one bullet mould available. Not much room for experimenting. If Bruce will shoot it he is more man than me. In my younger days, heck yes. Not anymore.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/RCBS_82075_Bullet_Mould_it-162532.aspx?CAT=4124

 

[DrifterFisher]

Tools needed to measure your targets......

A decent set of calipers, they can be the old fashion dial type, or the digital kind, but every target that requires group size measurement must be measured with calipers. Software based measuring programs are not permitted for any SuperStock game, and your target will not be accepted if that is how you measured it.

Every game target requires that you shoot 4 groups, and 4 measuring shots.

Targets....

There are a variety of targets available for download from the "Targets" sticky at the top of the SuperStock forum page, you may use any of those that work best for you, your rifle, and the sights being used, home made targets must be laid out it the same way as the printed one's with an area for 4 groups, and another area for 4 measuring shots.

Groups.....

Every game has different rules applied to the number of shots per group, again you must read and understand the rules to each game before you shoot. For games that require 5 shot groups, all five shots must be placed on your target, in the area or bullseyes for those groupings.

Measuring shots....

4 separate single shots must be fired from the same rifle, using the same ammo as used in the groups, and on the same target or piece of paper. These shots must be separate from each other, and separate from the groups shot, or the target will not count or qualify.

Measuring your target......

Part 1 - Measure each of your 4 measuring shots and record those measurements. Measure from the outside of the smudge marks left by the bullet, and not the actual hole in the paper. You will find that they will on average come out somewhere's between .215" and .230" depending on the ammo, and type of target paper used, but each shot must be measured and it's size recorded on the target next to the shot.
Next, using a calculator, add up all 4 shots, and divide by 4, this will give you your average measurement size, and this number will also be your subtractor for the group size measurements. This number should also be recorded on your target.
Part 2 - Measure the groups from the farthest two points of impact, measure from the outside smudge marks left from the bullet, and not the actual hole, then record this measurement for each of the 4 groups. Subtract the average measurement shot from each group, the remaining number will be your actual group size recorded for that target.
Part 3 - Some games are scored by average group size, this will require one more step or calculation. Take all 4 final group size measurements, add them up, and divide by 4 to get the over all group average.

Some final hints, and suggestions....

When doing your math on a calculator, always use the decimal point so the calculator can break it down.
We usually only use the "tenths", "Hundredths", and "Thousandths" after the decimal point, in other words, your score recorded should look like....( .250" ) and not ( .2495" )
All games but one require you use "Standard" measurements, and one game is calculated in "Metrics", if your calipers only measure in standard format, measure it in standard format, then use a standard to metric conversion program to convert it.

One last thought to keep in mind......

These are all "For Fun" games, there are no prizes, and no one here is compeating against you, we shoot these games for bragging rights only, but more importantly to see how well our rifles and ourselves can shoot. It also helps us improve our shooting skills, and we hope that everyone will put those improved skills to good use at some of the other online matches here at RFC.
The reason there are rules connected with these games is to keep it fair for everyone who wants to play, and by doing it right, and honest, you will also be able to track your own improvements in the target shooting sports.....

Now get out there and have some fun....or walk the plank.....




This is a pic of one of the targets,it was shot at 100yds with a Ruger 10/22 The ammo was Wolf Match Extra.
This is some of what we do on RFC..Hope this helps you understand how we measure.

 

[JohnAL]

I do a little .22 shooting but I only compete with myself and the local possum population. 1" black bulls eye.

 

[SAWMAN]

:shocked::faint: ^^^^^^^^^ .....WHEW !! ---SAWMAN

 

[joe]

Nice work!

Dam good for 30 year old ammo. Its hard not to shot with a hot barrel in this weather.

 

[DrifterFisher]

Pretty good shootin, what was that shot with?

 

[JohnAL]

1940s vintage Mossberg Model 144 target. 28" bull barrel. The possums and tree rats around here fear it. It's weird but our of the dozen or so different types of ammo I tried it likes Mini-Mags and Stiingers the best.

This is not mine in the picture but it's identical except that I have a scope and my barrel is thicker.