Myth or Fact? 5.56 was designed to wound.

[Rebel_Rider1969]

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/985672410

Wow! $2 a shot. Cool though.

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

.308 was a 16"

5.56 was 18"

Not that big a difference.

Thickness of skin on projectile makes a huge difference. Ie. Type of bullet.
I've shot deer with tula sp 154 gr and winchester pdx 120gr. Pdx exploded, sp went thru doing good damage. PDX SD round. Dumped 100% energy into the animal and no exit. X39.

 

[seandizzie]

I've seen KIA's with that small .308 hole in their chest, and the hole in their back you could put a fist through. Yep, bullet passed through still carrying energy, so.........

heard.

 

[M118LR]

heard.

I've got more experience with 175 special ball or OTM 175 SMK'S. 147 FMJ M80 not so much. But 7.62 x 51 mm 147 & 168 OTM SMK'S have 800 meter limits for super sonic operations. Transonic shots can get very tricky. JMHO YMMV. 5.56 commonly drops to trans sonic at 650 meters.

 

[seandizzie]

I've got more experience with 175 special ball or OTM 175 SMK'S. 147 FMJ M80 not so much. But 7.62 x 51 mm 147 & 168 OTM SMK'S have 800 meter limits for super sonic operations. Transonic shots can get very tricky. JMHO YMMV. 5.56 commonly drops to trans sonic at 650 meters.

These have a G-1 BC of .547. The only issue is they are long and need to be loaded over max sammi col to get the same case capacity as a 175 smk.

Varget 44 grains
4064. 42.4 grains
Col- 2.860 (+-.002)
Bot- 2.222

Both powder charges get velocity in the 2460-2480 region depending on temp, out of a 16” and don’t tear up the brass( FC/LC). Also cycle reliably in semi autos with out heavy ejector smears. Cases below have about 10 firings and the primer pockets are done.

About 4.9 mils up at 610 yards around 8.2 at 810 and 13.8 at 1060.

Chart below is with a 2480 muzzle velocity.

They transition sub sonic fairly well. The only issue I see with them are the plastic tips occasionally get damaged in the magazine, and flattened out from the recoil in cycling. If you load up a 20 round mag by the time you get to the eighth or tenth shot all the tips of the remaining projectiles deformed. If you just load a few at a time in my opinion, they out shoot the SMK’s past 800.

 

[rossi]

View attachment 223307

These have a G-1 BC of .547. The only issue is they are long and need to be loaded over max sammi col to get the same case capacity as a 175 smk.

Varget 44 grains
4064. 42.4 grains
Col- 2.860 (+-.002)
Bot- 2.222

Both powder charges get velocity in the 2460-2480 region depending on temp, out of a 16” and don’t tear up the brass( FC/LC). Also cycle reliably in semi autos with out heavy ejector smears. Cases below have about 10 firings and the primer pockets are done.
View attachment 223308

About 4.9 mils up at 610 yards around 8.2 at 810 and 13.8 at 1060.

Chart below is with a 2480 muzzle velocity.

View attachment 223309

They transition sub sonic fairly well. The only issue I see with them are the plastic tips occasionally get damaged in the magazine, and flattened out from the recoil in cycling. If you load up a 20 round mag by the time you get to the eighth or tenth shot all the tips of the remaining projectiles deformed. If you just load a few at a time in my opinion, they out shoot the SMK’s past 800.

I used to load the 165gr SST's by Hornady. Awesome Performance!

 

[M118LR]

Nowadays I've just got to expend the thousands I've already got before it's time to startup the press. These are lethal. M118LR needs no introduction, so Sierra: https://www.sierrabullets.com/308-winchester-175-grain-matchking-trajectory-chart/

 

[seandizzie]

Nowadays I've just got to expend the thousands I've already got before it's time to startup the press. These are lethal. M118LR needs no introduction, so Sierra: https://www.sierrabullets.com/308-winchester-175-grain-matchking-trajectory-chart/

ELDM will expand much more rapidly. I believe the SST acts similar.



Those modern tipped bullets, I'd take a look at them.

 

[Sojurn]

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/985672410

If I can ever find that stuff in a larger quantity I'm going to buy it. I understand it isn't a good idea to use in a bolt gun.

 

[M118LR]

If I can ever find that stuff in a larger quantity I'm going to buy it. I understand it isn't a good idea to use in a bolt gun.

Most bolt action are chambered for .223 not 5.56. .223 Remington is safe for use in a 5.56 chamber, it doesn't work the other way round. 5.56 isn't safe for use in a .223 Remington Match Chamber.

 

[Beached]

I have friend that was special forces in Vietnam he was shot with a .25 caliber machine gun the north used for that very reason wound one take three out of play.

 

[DAS HUGH!]

If I can ever find that stuff in a larger quantity I'm going to buy it. I understand it isn't a good idea to use in a bolt gun.

It's largely because thier only source of procurement to the civilian market is crime. That's why it's never in tidy precounted boxes, with pesky labels lol

 

[DAS HUGH!]

I have friend that was special forces in Vietnam he was shot with a .25 caliber machine gun the north used for that very reason wound one take three out of play.

I have a sneaky feelin they intended to kill the fella, luckily he lived tho. Good for him

 

[rossi]

I have friend that was special forces in Vietnam he was shot with a .25 caliber machine gun the north used for that very reason wound one take three out of play.

Trying to figure what machine gun is .25 caliber. Do you mean 7.62x25 ? There were submachineguns chambered for that cartridge.

 

[rossi]

ELDM will expand much more rapidly. I believe the SST acts similar.



Those modern tipped bullets, I'd take a look at them.

All SST'S recovered from deer and hogs were full blown mushrooms.

 

[lakelandmusic]

Yeah. The myth makes the assumption that the enemy cares enough to evac its wounded and have medics etc like we do. For a long while now we've been dealing with enemies who are radical, and don't mind dying. So we being the good guys we'd likely wind up having to care for thier wounded actually if we was wounding them intentionally. I don't think I've ever seen a Taliban "medic" in a way that we think of how medics work here.
Any stories about how that works guys?

You know that's an interesting take. I am not Taliban expert, but I've done a lot of research on most of our wars, and I've never come across mention of a Taliban medic either. I assume that advanced medical technology, procedures, and the actual unit structures required to care for casualties are all but non-existent in their organizations, but since I haven't seen any interviews or materials about it, it's just an assumption.

 

[lakelandmusic]

Not really a good argument. The Effi-be-eye uses it. If everytime they farted they kicked their left leg up, Leo would too.

I hear you, though we are talking about an important component that has gone through a lot of research and development and has been proven to do what it's intended to. It causes death. Any bullet can wound, and placed properly within it's effective range, can kill.

 

[72sofsme]

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

I hear you, though we are talking about an important component that has gone through a lot of research and development and has been proven to do what it's intended to. It causes death. Any bullet can wound, and placed properly within it's effective range, can kill.

True, still not using it on deer, hogs. Reserve the .30 cal stuff for that, but weak thin skinned predators ( both types) 223 is good to go. My Fudd is showing. Lol.

 

[seandizzie]

Yeah. The myth makes the assumption that the enemy cares enough to evac its wounded and have medics etc like we do. For a long while now we've been dealing with enemies who are radical, and don't mind dying. So we being the good guys we'd likely wind up having to care for thier wounded actually if we was wounding them intentionally. I don't think I've ever seen a Taliban "medic" in a way that we think of how medics work here.
Any stories about how that works guys?

Had a room mate who was a Nurse in Iraq. No detailed stories as I have forgotten, its been over 10 years since I have even spoked to her, but she unloaded a lot of it onto me at one point. The overview of what I remember she said it was hard, mentally to go from caring for a Nato solider, then injured civilians and occasionally wounded enemy combatant. Every one was seeking their medical help over anything indigenous. For her, being in the middle of all that was taxing, psychologically