Legal Concealed Carry of Rifles

[lonesouth]

There is a lot of discussion abounding on the net about this topic, however, I am coming up short when reviewing statutes. What laws allow a person to carry a concealed rifle or shotgun to or from a place of purchase or residence and vehicle or mode of transportation? Or a SBR/SBS in a backpack?

790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.—(1) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is authorized to issue licenses to carry concealed weapons or concealed firearms to persons qualified as provided in this section. Each such license must bear a color photograph of the licensee. For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as ahandg un, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(9).

OK, so 790.06 does not provide for concealed carry of a rifle or shotgun with a CWP.

790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.—
(2) USES NOT AUTHORIZED.—
(a) This section does not authorize carrying a concealed weapon without a permit, as prohibited by ss. 790.01 and 790.02.

So 790.25 clearly does not specifically allow(or give permissions) for concealed carry of any weapon.

(3) LAWFUL USES.—The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:
(h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;
(l)  A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person’s manual possession;
(m) A person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a secure wrapper, concealed or otherwise, from the place of purchase to his or her home or place of business or to a place of repair or back to his or her home or place of business;

So (h) does not apply as that is not the case stated. (l) also does not apply since we're talking about getting to or from a conveyance. (m) specifically states "pistol" and makes no reference to rifles. As an extension, since only those specific locations are cited, would taking your rifle or shotgun to a friend's house to show them not be covered, if we were to assume that "pistol" should be replaced with "firearm"?

790.001 Definitions.—As used in this chapter, except where the context otherwise requires:
(6) “Firearm” means any weapon (including a starter gun) which will, is designed to, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; any destructive device; or any machine gun. The term “firearm” does not include an antique firearm unless the antique firearm is used in the commission of a crime.

Firearm, as defined and used in 790.25, would include rifles and shotguns.

790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.—
(4) CONSTRUCTION.—This act shall be liberally construed to carry out the declaration of policy herein and in favor of the constitutional right to keep and bear arms for lawful purposes. This act is supplemental and additional to existing rights to bear arms now guaranteed by law and decisions of the courts of Florida, and nothing herein shall impair or diminish any of such rights. This act shall supersede any law, ordinance, or regulation in conflict herewith.

Then we come to the construction clause.

790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.—
(15) The Legislature finds as a matter of public policy and fact that it is necessary to provide statewide uniform standards for issuing licenses to carry concealed weapons and firearms for self-defense and finds it necessary to occupy the field of regulation of the bearing of concealed weapons or firearms for self-defense to ensure that no honest, law-abiding person who qualifies under the provisions of this section is subjectively or arbitrarily denied his or her rights. The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall implement and administer the provisions of this section. The Legislature does not delegate to the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services the authority to regulate or restrict the issuing of licenses provided for in this section, beyond those provisions contained in this section. Subjective or arbitrary actions or rules which encumber the issuing process by placing burdens on the applicant beyond those sworn statements and specified documents detailed in this section or which create restrictions beyond those specified in this section are in conflict with the intent of this section and are prohibited. This section shall be liberally construed to carry out the constitutional right to bear arms for self-defense. This section is supplemental and additional to existing rights to bear arms, and nothing in this section shall impair or diminish such rights.

And similarly, and perhaps more importantly, the construction clause in 790.06.

Since there are no legal means by which one can legally carry a concealed rifle, with or with a permit, the liberal interpretation of the law suggests that either 790.06 should include rifles where it says pistols, or 790.25 should default to the definition of firearm as used in 790.001 as used in the rest of 790. Either way, my limited, and free, legal interpretation concealed carry of rifles and shotguns is that there is no law allowing it in any situation, there is no statute in 790.25 specifically excluding them such as the machine gun exemption; ergo there would be a trial to define it, or not depending on the attitude of the DA. So do as you like, but don't be surprised if you get arrested.

 

[lonesouth]

I'm hoping that I overlooked some clause or subsection, that makes me look like a fool, but these are the statutes I found which relate to the topic.

am I worried that a cop will arrest me for carrying a rifle from a store to my car, such as 790.25 3(m)? No, I think it is readily assumed by all that there should be an allowance for rifles. However, that does not make it legal, though I think the court would rule in favor of such activity.

 

[Welldoya]

Is that an AR in your pants or are you just happy to see me ?

 

[lonesouth]

I'm specifically talking about backpack carry. I imagine more than a few people in florida, and likely here, have carried a Sub2000 in a backpack. Same problem.

 

[lonesouth]

I sent Ruger and Kel-Tec inquiries as to if their legal teams have looked into the topic of backpack carry of a 10/22 Take Down or Sub2000 in florida.

Will update if I receive a reply.

 

[wildrider666]

Thanks for the info and your time putting it together. Been a long time since I reviewed it. This is why I went with the pistol version of the Sig 556. The topic does bring up a gray area that I don't want to risk problem with.

There is another simular issue. A Florida "Concealed Weapon or Firearm License". Note: weapon and firearm are singular not plural and seperated by "OR" not "AND". This begs the question: If you carry a primary CC handgun AND a knife or BUG, that equals two: is this a violation? This ties into the truck gun issue. If you have your primary CC handgun AND a truck AR/AK pistol, do you exceed the limits of the License? My current opinion on this is my License covers my CC handgun and the AR/AK pistol (encased) is covered by 790.25 (3)(I).

 

[flyandscuba]

When I was involved in the self defense shooting in Pensacola in December, 2012 - I had a sidearm, a back-up pocket pistol, and an OTF automatic knife. The PPD had no issue with me having multiple weapons while holding a FL CWL.

That's not to say that other agencies or locations may have the same reaction or response.

 

[Dan1612]

Overthinking this a bit?


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[B52]

This is why laws against open carry and laws describing concealed carry are BAD. Any law infringing on 2A leaves the citizen subject to the whim of some political feeling and punishment.

 

[Deersniper270]

Yeah I think the "and or" just means you can conceal a weapon or a firearm. Not all weapons are firearms so they have to specify that too.

To me it says you can conceal a weapon or a firearm. That's it.

I don't read it as you can only conceal a weapon or a firearm. That makes no sense to me.

Also, it says firearm and I believe rifles and shotguns fall under firearm right? To me it's that simple. Your permit allows you to conceal a firearm, shotgun = firearm, shotgun in bag = concealed. Simple

 

[lonesouth]

Yeah I think the "and or" just means you can conceal a weapon or a firearm. Not all weapons are firearms so they have to specify that too.

To me it says you can conceal a weapon or a firearm. That's it.

I don't read it as you can only conceal a weapon or a firearm. That makes no sense to me.

Also, it says firearm and I believe rifles and shotguns fall under firearm right? To me it's that simple. Your permit allows you to conceal a firearm, shotgun = firearm, shotgun in bag = concealed. Simple

All well and good until the statute defines the term specifically, though at the same time somewhat ambiguously.

790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.—(1) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is authorized to issue licenses to carry concealed weapons or concealed firearms to persons qualified as provided in this section. Each such license must bear a color photograph of the licensee. For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as ahandg un, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(9).

 

[lonesouth]

BTW, ruger replied

It is our suggestion that you contact your local DOJ or law enforcement for more information on the laws in your location.

 

[Deersniper270]

I don't know what to tell you. Contact the proper authorities in your state, county, and city and present them with the question and wait for a reply. Other than that don't carry if you feel like you are breaking the law or it is unclear. At least then you can't break the law

 

[Dan1612]

I hear they'll be shutting down the gun case aisle at all retailers starting April 1st 2017, since their purchase constitutes constructive intent and therefore potential concealment of a rifle, which is not specifically allowed by the law...


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[Big Shrek]

Everyone needs a good Case occasionally,
even if it isn't a specific gun case, it's been modified to be one...




Just remember to put some Bernie Sanders & CHANGE bumper stickers on it,
and no Liberal will ever suspect there are guns in it, until it's opened

 

[wildrider666]

Yippy yi o ky a! Looks SASSy to me!

 

[Big Shrek]

Best thing is, lots of pawn shops sell off their excess guitar cases for $10-20 a pop...
and you can have several quickly set up in hardly any time at all

Heck, the "El Mariachi" series is chock full of great ideas too!!
"Once Upon a Time in Mexico", etc...

And if you don't mind dropping a few AOW tax stamps...
you can do some "Sabata" conversions...

 

[Cootcommander]

HK Operational Briefcase

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[FelixH]

"OR" is not exclusive. If it were meant to be exclusive, it would read, "OR... but not both".
Don't add words or intent to the document.

 

[wildrider666]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/or

Definition of*or
1—used as a function word to indicate an alternative (coffee or tea, the equivalent or substitutive character of two words or phrases, lessen or abate, or approximation or uncertainty as in five or six days)

Or presents an alternative item or idea; being the key: this or that. Simple and common legal usage applied to a car title: If it says Bill or Jane Smith either one can sign and release the title upon sale. If it it listed as Bill and Jane Smith both must sign it upon release.

A District Court concluded OR means alternatives, in this Case salary or Bonuses. The 8th Circut Appeals Court Reversed the decision because the Company that wrote "or" in the Plan was also the one to interpret and apply the Plans application, further the application was reasonable. Thus setting a Case Law precedence that "or" can be interpeted as "and" if the documents controling party wants it to be so. This is also contrary to the St John's paper (PDF) within the Link below.

http://raymondpward.typepad.com/newlegalwriter/2007/02/when_or_means_a.html

We in turn are back to "or" being vague and ambiguous.