How you measure group size?

[joe]

I went shooting today & was measuring some groups afterwards.

I have to admit until few years ago I always just measured outside edge to outside edge & that was my group.:crazy: I am slow sometimes.

Then I read that you are suppose to measure outside edge to outside edge & subtract the caliber.

Suddenly after reading this I figured out how alot of folks could say they shoot 3/4" groups consistently with large caliber guns. :lol:

I have always shot 4 shots when trying for groups as I shot a magnum most of the time & thats how many it holds. I now have a 308 that holds 5.

I also noticed a guy waiting a few minutes between shots with a Sem Auto hunting rifle. Then he said it was shooting one large whole. Inside I was laughing thinking, I hope that deer holds still & waits for your rifle to cool so you can get that follow up shot. I always let my gun cool between groups but not shots.

So how do you measure groups? How many bullets when shooting for a groups with a hunting gun of 243 caliber or larger.

Joe

 

[Signal25]

Blam!!!!




Ping.

Blam!!!!


Ping.


Thats a good group for me..........:frown:

 

[JohnAL]

Center to center of the outside holes. Outside measurement minus the caliber gives you the same result. Good 3 shot groups seem to be easy to get. Go for five and a damn flyer will get you.

 

[joe]

Yes I can do three shot groups & four a good bit of the time.

What I really seem to have a hard time doing is getting 3 good (1") 4 shot groups in a row. I always seem to screw up one.

I will have to get me an accurate gun thats cheaper to shoot & work on my technique. I need something like 22 mag as I want to shoot a 100 not 50yrds.

 

[M.O.A.]

Interesting enough the hardest I ever worked to get a group was at the appleseed program last year. All you have to do is keep your shots in a 1.5" circle at 25 meters with a .22. Offhand kneeling and prone. Try it sometime if youre bored. Lol

 

[SAWMAN]

Groups......hmmmm....gotta be realistic about this subject or someone with a little experience will call...."BS". Outside to outside the subtract bullet caliber in thousandths(.000") Never use a carpenters ruler to measure. Personally...I cannot relate to 3/8ths,9/16ths,3/4ths,etc,etc.

A group shot should firstly have the range stated. I shoot quite a bit at 50yds. Measured with a laser,BTW. This,especially with the larger bore guns. The guns that will be used for the closer shots IMO do not need to be shot for groups at 100yds. I also mostly shoot 3 shot groups. The number of shots in a group makes a huge difference in braggin' rights. All bench rest is a number of 5 shot groups. Then all groups are measured and averaged.

A 5 shot group that is under .500" is super. Brag about it.....after....you show it to us. And be prepared for me to offer you a $100 bill. --- SAWMAN

 

[M.O.A.]

A 5 shot group that is under .500" is super. Brag about it.....after....you show it to us. And be prepared for me to offer you a $100 bill. ---SAWMAN

Those exist only in myth and legend.

 

[M.O.A.]

Another interesting note is that you will occasionally see better " groups" at 300 yards than at 100. Especially with the long VLD type projectiles. Most of these don't get stable untill after 175-200 yards.

 

[Stanley13]

I'm confused about this measure thing, I mean after I shoot the empty 12 beers there is nothing to measure? And why do y'all need 3 shot groups mine usually bust after one shoot (if I hit it)? Gezzzzzz

 

[dead-bird]

I like to use this:

http://ontargetshooting.com/

 

[Richard J.]

Saw, I knew quite a few that claimed they could shoot under .500. Funny thing is when you ran into them at a range they would have been lucky to hit a tennis ball size group. Always said they were having a bad day. lol. Been around a long time and seen a lot of bragging over the years. Talk is cheap and not many can back it up when it comes to shooting tight groups. Especially if you are claiming .500 or under.

 

[M.O.A.]

I'm confused about this measure thing, I mean after I shoot the empty 12 beers there is nothing to measure? And why do y'all need 3 shot groups mine usually bust after one shoot (if I hit it)? Gezzzzzz

So many unanswered questions there. Were the beers hot or cold ? Coors, Bud, Miller Lite etc ? Standing upright or end on?

 

[JohnAL]

I did it once. Have not been able to duplicate it since. I have a bunch of tiny 3-shot groups but the odds get you when that fourth shot is added.

Like this one -
3 in one ragged hole, one gotcha shot

and this one.
three touching, one gotcha.

 

[M.O.A.]

Best excuse I ever heard for a flyer was " must have hit a bug with that round " of course on some ranges that's almost believable.

 

[JohnAL]

Damn, I'll have to remember that one.

 

[SAWMAN]

Just recently shot this group with my Ruger #1 chambered in 45-70 and using a 405gr WLNGC (hard cast) bullet. The gun has the original front sight and an aftermarket highly adjustable peep. This group, at the widest point,outside to outside,is .634". Subtracting the bullet diameter of .458' this group comes out to .176".

NOW,for the rest of the story ---> This group was shot from bench and bag,at my range. It was shot at 50yds. The number of shots is three.(TOTAL) Yep...I stopped at three. Could I do this again ?? Extremely unlikely. If I were to shoot 5,3 shot groups would the aggregate of the groups be .176". NO !! Not even close. Is this group hanging on the wall of my reloading room ?? Hell yeah !! However....none of my bad groups are. --- SAWMAN

 

[JohnAL]

Is this group hanging on the wall of my reloading room ?? Hell yeah !! However....none of my bad groups are. --- SAWMAN

LOL
Exactly!

 

[Richard J.]

Nice group sawman, especially with that big old bullet. Problem always is no. 4 and no.5. One of these last two one will always get you. Many years ago I spent an awfull lot of time trying this. Had some real nice groups with a lot of different weapons but it just seems that No. 5 is a given flyer. I used to shoot 1,000 yards with a couple of weapons and just thought with my reloading it would be a given at 100 yds. You put all that time into exacting reloads then find out it is a lot harder than you think. Three shot yes, four a few, five shots and you say what the hell happened. Love the bug story. Have to remember that one.

 

[M.O.A.]

One other point of consideration. A " cold bore " shot from a clean weapon can have a significantly different POI than a " group" at ranges beyond 100 yards. Also, A couple of " fouling shots " down the tube can sometimes make a rifle shoot tighter groups . Since most hunting shots are made with a cold cleangun I like to check my hunting rifles by shoot,patch, shoot. Probably completely unnecessary but interesting. As was stated earlier " a deer isn't gonna stand still long enough to run a 5 shot string with a cooldown " lol

 

[joe]

Nice shooting guys!

I do not claim to be that good but I am enjoying getting better. Scope power makes a difference as well compare a group shot with a 9 power & a 16 power are not equal IMO. Ammo factory vs custom reloads.

My ultimate goal is 3 groups all 1" or less in a row on one target. This was from a rem 7-08 I was playing with this winter. Yes there are some dots on the target But I can't remember why. Ideally I would not want any black dots on the target as well.

Example:I gave up on the last group & did not even shoot the fourth shot. 100yrds , bags, 12 power scope, factory Federal Fusion 140 grain.