Gun show loophole ??

[outside9]

I hate to sound like a dumb @ss but what are they referring to when they talk about closing the "gun show loophole"?

I occasionally go to gun shows and have bought a gun or two at them. Every time I bought one at a gun show the dealer went through the same process as if I went to Walmart or gun store.

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[rockb]

Person to person sales not through a FFL dealer and therefore no background check.

 

[Dan1612]

I've never bought a gun at a show without filling a form. That's probably because I'm not interested in the Mosins and 10/22s people run around with wanting to privately sell.


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[Steve@JCA]

I hate to sound like a dumb @ss but what are they referring to when they talk about closing the "gun show loophole"?

I occasionally go to gun shows and have bought a gun or two at them. Every time I bought one at a gun show the dealer went through the same process as if I went to Walmart or gun store.

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IT's a great tool the pro gun control types can use to try to scare the crap out of the uneducated public. Rather than telling the truth & saying they want to require background checks for every firearm sale, even those that occur between two private citizens from the same state, it is a much better scare tactic to call it a gun show loophole which, if you are a scared liberal, seems to translate to the fact that all firearm sales at gun shows are conducted without any sort of background check. As you noted, any firearm sale from a FFL to a private citizen already requires a background check, regardless of whether the gun is sold from their storefront, or at a table the dealer sets up at a local gun show. It all started back in the bad old days when there were no cool online forums like GCGF for private citizens to congregate & buy/sell/trade firearms, so they either did it at their local gun club (on the bulletin board), or they would carry around guns they wanted to sell when they went to the local gun show since they knew all the local gun folks would be there. Used to be really common to see someone walking around with a rifle slung over their shoulder & a sign hanging off the barrel advertising how much they wanted for the gun. As long as the buyer & the seller were both private citizens, no background check was required by Federal or State law . . . Hence the dreaded "Gun Show Loophole" .

Same thing with the recent fuss about the "online gun sale loophole" that has been getting all the press lately. Cool forums like GCGF allow all the local private citizens to buy/sell/trade firearms without a background check being done (uh . . . yeah, because legally, there is no background check required as long as both parties are private citizens).

Sorry. I'll get down off the soapbox now.

 

[outside9]

Person to person sales not through a FFL dealer and therefore no background check.

Hell, that really has nothing to do with gun shows. Why don't they call it private sales?

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[oneshot]

You were doing pretty good don't stop Just my 5 cents jj

 

[Steve@JCA]

Hell, that really has nothing to do with gun shows. Why don't they call it private sales?

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My guess would be because if they actually came right out & said they want to require background checks on all firearm sales that take place between private citizens there would be a WHOLE lot more private citizens who would be up in arms about them wanting to take away more of the private citizen's rights. By calling it the Gun Show Loophole, I think a lot of folks kind of ignore it because they figure "ahhh, I don't really care about what happens at gun shows, because only the crazy gun nut types go to those things. Since I don't go to gun shows, whatever they are talking about adding won't effect me."

The sad thing is, if you watch the news shows & listen to some of the people who are supposedly very educated about firearms law in our country (as well as a whole bunch of the members of congress), many of them have no idea that all firearms sold at gun shows by dealers actually do already require a background check. None of them want to do what you had the courage to do & ask someone exactly what is meant by the term gun show loophole.

 

[Ryan]

I thought the gun show loophole was the guys that have 20+ guns at their table that are all "private sales from their collection" so they don't have to have an FFL and on the other end no bg check?

 

[Steve@JCA]

I thought the gun show loophole was the guys that have 20+ guns at their table that are all "private sales from their collection" so they don't have to have an FFL and on the other end no bg check?

Amounts to the same thing (although you'd have to have some big hairy brass ones to try that more than once these days with all the ATF agents "distributing public service leaflets" at all the gun shows). If the guns are from the guy's private collection, he is not a licensed firearms dealer & he sells them to another private citizen, legally there is no requirement for a background check.

The bigger fuss about what you are pointing out is what has the BATFE so up in arms. How many guns does a person have to sell in what amount of time before they become a firearms dealer & are legally required to obtain an FFL. So far, there is no set in stone answer. Some folks have been convicted for selling as few as 2 firearms, although in their publication on the matter, ATF said there were extenuating circumstances in that case. Seems like one of the key considerations they use is whether you are selling firearms to make a profit.

 

[Ross7]

Seems like one of the key considerations they use is whether you are selling firearms to make a profit.

Something to keep in mind the next time I'm haggling with a private seller over a gun. I'll tell him he should really lower his price lest he be construed as a profit seeking, license-less firearms dealer.:biggrin1:

 

[JBryan314]

The GSLH is nothing more than another stepping stone in a long line of stepping stones to eventually confiscate by force all firearms.

The progression of the progressive conversation:

Can we kick in people's doors and take the guns away yet? Not yet, but we can ban machine guns.

Can we kick in people's doors now? Not yet, but we can ban suppressors.

Can we kick in their doors yet? Not yet, but we can require them to obtain permission to carry a gun at all.

Can we finally kick down their doors? Not yet, but we can ban "assault weapons".

Let me guess, we still can't kick in their doors and take their guns? Not yet, but we can close the "gun show loophole" and require all sellers to run background checks and get permission to sell.

Sweet! Now that we track all movement, it's time to kick some doors! Not yet, but we can force a registration on guns.

Alright, now we know the location of all guns, so let's kick in people's front doors and take them away for good!





Yes. Let's go take them.

 

[fl57caveman]

.

Alright, now we know the location of all guns, so let's kick in people's front doors and take them away for good!





Yes. Let's go take them.

and....that's when civil war II starts.

 

[outside9]

I thought the gun show loophole was the guys that have 20+ guns at their table that are all "private sales from their collection" so they don't have to have an FFL and on the other end no bg check?

I didn't know that took place. I just assumed all the vendors were dealers.

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[rockb]

Hell, that really has nothing to do with gun shows. Why don't they call it private sales?

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Like Steve said. Better marketing.

 

[FelixH]

There is no loophole. A registered dealer selling at a gun show must follow the same procedures as if he were selling at his own place of business.
A private seller must conform to the same rules as if he were selling at his own home, or where ever the two parties decided to meet.

The so-called "loophole" is just a way for the anti-gun crowd to disguise their true intentions and standardize a term that can be used in their fear mongering.

 

[slfree]

I always make it a point to strongly state that "There Is No Gun Show Loophole. The State and federal laws that govern the sale of guns apply at the Gun Show as well as the alley behind the show." Only the stupid sheeple do not know and understand this. I am amazed how often gun owners are stupid sheeple too. Too many people have a "I got mine, forget you" attitude. People that only own rifles are some of the worst, thinking themselves a step above because they hunt.
The OP of this thread did not know, and he took the time to ask. He is not a sheeple. We all learned from this. And that is a good thing.
The overwhelming majority of folks I meet at Gun Shows would walk away from a deal in a heartbeat if they sense something is not right. Not just compliance with laws but just feeling the other party is wrong headed. Nice thing about private sales is you can walk at any time. We should just not deal with the others. And those folks in the alley, well they don't much care about the law anyway.
Dealers know their every move is watched by a government that does not look out for them but hopes to put out of business.

 

[barebones1]

what is the gun show loop hole'

No such a thing. That is verbage (new word derived from "garbage").They are just words of "miss- direction" to lead you astray. Our government wish’s you to believe; Obama Quote from town hall meeting, “criminals go to gun shows and purchase, “VAN LOADS of guns". Take them to Chicago and sell them to 13year olds. This is an attempt to paint a horrific picture in your mind. Problem is; it is completely false. There are sellers who walk thru the parking lots of gun shows, only in states that allow “private sale" of guns. You may see 4 or 5 guys with a rifle to sell, out of thousands of people at the gun show. Buy omission of facts, you are lead to believe “unlicensed” dealers fill the isles of gun shows. If people were buying “VAN LOADS’ of guns. They would be detained by the show patrons and held for the authorities. The vast majority of gun shows are patronized by proud, civic minded, proud to be; American (gun carrying) citizens. Here are some examples of what they went to stop. Example; you purchase your buddy’s shot gun. You saw a gun in the want ads of the local paper. They want to charge for and register the sale of every gun in America. So why the smoke and mirrors? Why not just say? Why would that be so bad? Many believe, our government desires to create a "master list of every gun in America. Who has them, how many do they have and where are they. Still what is so bad about that? Many feel this is a master confiscation list. Disarming a populous is one way to convert, citizens into subjects. This is the exact reason the second amendment was written into the constitution. English king tried it, and it didn't work out to well for him.
Obama stated and agreed in his speech." gun sales are up and gun murder is down" this is a 10 year trend!!!! All the guns used in these "a mass shootings" were registered. So what is all this "gun show hoop-blah about? To convert and quote Shakespeare “Crap of any other name is still crap" Just fancy words to make you believe it’s a rose.
This is what he proposes and what is “so bad about it”
2 guys in line to purchase a gun Mr. bad and Mr. Good. Mr. Bad walks up, they look on a "list" and say “no you are Mr. Bad, no gun for you. Please leave" Mr. Good walks up. Again from the list "Mr. Good you may have a gun, first please step over here. You have 6 guns and now you want more? We are required to run a credit check on you also. Where will these guns be located? How much ammo do you have? Etc. etc.........get the picture!!!. Sounds more like registration and categorizing. so to what end is this information used? How does this stop the mass shootings? How does this stop the youth of Chicago from killing each other? (Smell that crap I was talking about)
We are being programmed to believe this social problem is created by guns, and if our government just knew where every gun was, and the credit score of the person who has it........our social problems will go away
Do we have a problem YES!
1 A large portion of a generation raised by welfare moms and MTV. They have no regard for human life.
2 tens of thousands of mentally ill citizens. (Who remembers the Government closing the mental hospitals and turning the patient's out to the streets? so they could fund other pet projects? Pumping our children full of anti- psychotic drugs, before they are fully formed.
3 The “Radical Islamic" issue
May I present an all bull shit aside solution.
If you really want to help this country here is a solution I guarantee will lesson gun deaths and crime. 3 year MANDATORY military service at age 18. That will teach “the poor under privileged city children" " But, they have no hope" we will give them hope! What they need the MOST ...discipline, purpose and direction. This will be a leap in identifying the "mentally ill" and start them on the path to treatment. It will also identify those who cannot adapt to civilized society.
Criminal record? We got a special boot camp for you. Pregnant or have kids? No exemption. In jail now? No problem. You go to special boot camp when you get out.
Our great leaders will argue “the cost of all citizen's being vets will break the bank". I'm no accountant, but all these people not on welfare. Tax paying citizens after service. Less policing expenses. Drop in prison costs. It will balance out. They will have to fix the VA now.
You want to make a real difference Mr. President....man up and make a real difference.
Sorry for the rant.

 

[slfree]

Great rant

 

[FrankT]

They should call it a forum, FaceBook, Armslist or private sale loophole because that is what it is. There are more private sales I would say than gun show sales anyway. It is all semantics about banning private sales and making all sales go thru a FFL nothing to do with gun shows at all

 

[JGill]

The 23 executive actions pertaining to gun control and gun violence that President Obama signed.

http://www.rocklandtimes.com/2016/01/05/a-list-of-obamas-23-executive-actions-on-guns/

Executive Actions:

1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.

3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.

4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.

5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.

6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.

7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.

8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).

9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.

10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.

11. Nominate an ATF director.

12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.

13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.

14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to developinnovative technologies.

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.

18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.

19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.

20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.

21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.

22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.

23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.