Florida Deputy threatens c/c holder to shoot him...traffic stop video

[Az-Vic]

Frank pretty much nailed it, plenty of errors made on both sides of that stop. I agree there is no need to cow tow or ass kiss during a stop or questioning, they are our servants, we are not subjects. On the same hand, it is incumbent on us to be reasonable and smart, ie: never climb out of the vehicle and start babbling. Sit still, hands on the wheel, wait for line of questions, and see where it goes from there. In some states, there is no requirement to declare you have a firearm, in others it is. I operate on the premise of, if they don't ask, I don't tell?

 

[Floorguy]

The bad language "technique" unfortunatey is common in the academies today... It's garbage - but being perpetuated by instructors who don't have a good grasp on the proper use of the English language. Unprofessional for sure -- but it also shows tremendous insecurity on the part of the LEO using it.

If you want to be perceived and treated as a professional -- act like a professional.
Both parties made poor choices in the video. Fortunately, things didn't turn out worse.

Exactly act like a thug get treated like a thug badge or no badge

 

[Stanley13]

The hell with that bull shit some one should beat that cops ass! Dumb scared redneck prick! If he wanted to shoot him he would have stayed in car and shot him in the face when he walked to window. He should not b arrested. I hope the judge slaps that wimp (cop) and calls him a pussy!

 

[Drauka99]

Mullet...I respect what cops go thru but I also feel that more than a few should have never been issued a badge. I have friends both active and retired from the force and have seen both the good guys and the bad ones in uniform...and trust me it only takes ONE run in with a bad one to make it hard to ever trust them again.
And as Forrest said "that's all I'm gunna say about that"

 

[SAWMAN]

I would agree with most posts above. F&S is absolutely right re. the language thing. Depending on your training tactics you can somewhat easily train males or females WITHOUT resorting to degrading the trainee. Cussin' them is not condusive to most training. ESPECIALLY training someone that carries a badge to interact with someone that doesn't.

How about this LEO's.....treat the ladies like you would want your mother and sister treated. Treat the men as you would want your father or brother treated. Damn simple in my opinion....it's a "do unto others "thing. This whole thread makes me wonder how the cops in the OPEN CARRY states do it. Do they all just explode on the person and throw them around,make 'em get down with a knee in the back of their neck. What kind of training do they get ?? What happens when they stop a driver for 5-9 over,ask the guy to step out of the car,and they exit with a openly displayed sidearm(as per the law of the state). Do the cops just go ahead and shoot them.

As stated above,respect works both ways. I WILL respect the cops that have respect for me. Is that asking too much ?? Wearing a badge does nothing for me,don't expect me to discount anything that you do or say just because you wear one. I will obay the law, you will respect me or I will see you in court and have you standing tall in frount of your Captain/Sheriff. ---- SAWMAN

 

[Viking1204]

So what does the law say? If pulled over and you have a weapon on you because you have a permit are you suppose to tell the officer up front or is the officer supposed to ask you? Seems like a very grey line here. Overall though that officer was very unprofessional. I think he was a dick because he realized he himself screwed up. If he didn't want the guy out of the van he should have told him to remain seated but he didn't. Sounds like the officer needs some remedial training.

 

[Bean Counter]

I think they were both dumb asses. In the past when I used to get pulled over regularly, honest I thought the speed limit was..., I never so much as got my door cracked before being told to stay in my car. They didn't have to use colorful language just a stern voice and I knew that was a bad idea. This didn't happen on just one occasion. It seems the cop in the video never had control of the situation. On the other hand the guy in the van seems almost smart enough to bark. Try paying for the tag and then for the permit idiot. I understand not telling the officer up front that you have a permit and are carrying a gun as it could just delay your stay on the side of the road but, I think if you are carrying and you are asked to get out of the vehicle that should be told to the officer before you open the door to avoid conflicts as we see here. All in all they were both stupid and that cop would have been in real trouble had that guy intended on harming him as he didn't even have control of the situation when he had the guy in cuffs.

 

[DevilDog]

The retired PPD officer that taught my CC class said that he wouldn't recommend immediately notifying officer of CCL during a standard traffic stop because it makes officer unease and lengthens your stop time to run you gun serial number.

Be careful giving this advise as some states require you inform ANY contact with a LEO in official capacity that you are armed and you can AND will go to jail for not doing it. I have been stopped by LEO in those states and simply hold both hands out the window with my license in one and my CCW in the other and inform the officer exactly where I am carrying. It has never lengthened a stop for me nor did they run my serial number. I sat patiently while they checked my DL and was on my way. In NC specifically, the first thing you say to the officer better be that you are carrying. I have been through many a roadside vehicle check or sobriety check and it becomes routine.

In the case of this dumbass in the video he did everything wrong. He did not properly register his vehicle, and yes he does state that it was registered but not putting that little sticker on the tag can be consider not properly registered. He also stepped out of the vehicle when he should have sat his happy ass in the seat. Lastly he was a little jumpy IMO, maybe because he was carrying and was making contact with LEO. Some people get that way, but all the more reason to sit still and relax.

Yes, there are prick cops in the world.....some of them are good friends of mine. But in a time of stress you can not blame anyone for the words they use. He was trying to control what he felt was or could be a bad day. Level heads prevail in the end.

Be smart when you go out into public armed. Know the laws EVERYWHERE you will be going and when in doubt do not carry until you do.

 

[Bean Counter]

Even if it did take a little longer on the side of the road it would be better looking down the wrong end of a barrel.

 

[wildrider666]

FL Statue has a specific exception for permit holders that addresses accidental exposure of the firearm. This will be thrown out. False arrest as the officer does not know the law! I declare mine when I talk to a Officer but I do not know of a Fl requirement to declare that you have a CWP and are currently armed.

Here is another link: http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.c...holder-in-the-back-during-traffic-stop/31929/

 

[SteveC]

I see a cop that has poor officer safety... I also see ems coming to the mans aid after I dumped him on the ground or tazed his ass for not following instructions. Also probably would have dumped his ass when he got out of his car and approached me. The cop should have secured the gun, also should have never let fatty get back in his truck to retrieve paperwork... After I had biggun on the ground disarmed, and cuffed, I would have held the women at gunpoint, made her raise her hands and walk backwards till she was where i could safely watch both SUSPECTS on the ground till backup arrived. I have done this type scenario many times... Also before you bastards criticize my answer... How was the deputy supposed to know the fat guy had a concealed carry permit... Do criminals lie? Do they kill cops? Just because you have been granted the privilege to carry, doesn't mean that you have the right to disobey direct orders from LEO while conducting and investigation... He would go to jail for everything I could find in the four inch thick FL statue book... As well as the expired tag..... And I would seize his gun just to make him go through the hassle of getting it back.... It would take at the very least 6 months, I have seen it done many times..... Also I see no issue with the language... Register your vehicle and don't ask for trouble if it hurts your feelings getting cussed at..... Language is a trained tactic and is proven to be very affective, also it is not illegal, nor a policy
violation.....

Wow, so threatening to "shoot you in the fucking back" was acceptable language in whatever departments you have worked in? I agree, the driver should have provided his CCW with his license, but the fact is that as an LEO you are constrained by the law & the law says the CCW holder is responsible for "Informing law enforcement upon demand". I replayed the tape 3 times & still didn't hear the patrolman ask the motorist if he had a weapon. . . . . did you? From your rant about how you would throw the book at this guy (aside from your comments about the motorist & his wife's weight which obviously have nothing to do with the situation), it would appear that you may have some anger management issues, which is something absolutely not needed in any LEO position. Several things motivate people to enter the law enforcement field, but it is often quoted that the two major psychological drives are a) The need to help others & make the community a safer place, and b) The need to demonstrate unwarranted superiority and control over others. Since I do not know you personally, I would certainly not presume to second guess your evaluation of the situation shown in the video, but many of your comments certainly fall inline with the behavior so prevalent in today's LE community, which often creates publicity nightmares for the agencies & completely destroys public support & respect.

 

[wildrider666]

I'm tossing a flag on both players for reasons already beat to death. The only point not covered is the Officers cover your ass and follow through with the arrest. Officer did not control situation until he gets a peek a the bottom of the holster (not a violation of FL Law). Officer panic reaction followed. So panicked he cuffed suspect 1 then walked away leaving gun on suspect near his hands (bad mistake). Bla Bla Bla situation secure.

At this point Officer has reacted badly to a situation that should not have occurred. Officer will push the arrest through and compile every possible violation he can (in addition to the tag) to be bargaining chips for when the crap hits the fan. Tape shows Mr Lawful got put on the ground and cuffed for the legal gun, not the expired tag. I would bet there is a lot of behind the scenes horse trading on this one. Does anyone think a DA is going to take this gun charge to court? I think that PD owes Mr Lawful a big butt kissing apology. All you armchair Blue Liner's take a deep breath and let it out slow. If nothing turned bad for the PD and I was this Officers Lt, I would give him some remedial time riding with FTO. I would also put a letter in his file that would evaporate in six months if he did not have any other issues.

I realize that if the guy had three bodies and 1/2 ton of blow in the van it would be a different story. But this is not the case here. You must only judge the facts not the what ifs'. All LE is tough work and you have to make snap decisions without the luxury of all the info. That's why we got the big bucks right?

How about this what if: Back up arrives. Permit checks, gun is clean, van checked. Officer then goes over and uncuffs Suspect 1 and explains "The sight of the gun caught me off guard and I reacted to what I thought could be a worse case situation that I had to contain immediately. Do you understand why I took that course of action to contain it and figure out the permit issue after things were safe for all of us? Bla bla bla...

Just my humble opinion.

 

[rockb]

What really surprised me is that the officer turned his back on the guy HE KNEW HAD A GUN without securing the gun first. The officer's hands were inches away from the gun while he was cuffing him and he did not secure the gun.

 

[SAWMAN]

Allow me to re-post......how does the LEO's handle different situations in states where OPEN CARRY is legal ???????? Can anyone(ESPECIALLY LEO's)give us insight into this. A LEO walks by a liquor store and the guy standing at the counter has a sidearm PLAINLY showing. Then what. Lemme guess....he runs in and dives on the guy that is presumably guilty,thumps him several times with his expandable baton,then hits him a couple of times with his stun gun/taser,before putting a knee in the back of his neck and cuffing him.

Then after the check, the dispatcher comes up with nothing and seems he was just in there to buy a newspaper. Soooooo the LEO unhooks the "bad guy",sez to him,"sorry for the inconvenience" and strolls out the door ???

The "bad guy" complains,the chief puts a "bad cop,no doughnut" letter in his file then he(his chief),just like magic,makes it disappear in 6 months.

Is that how you would like to be treated ?? How about your father ?? Maybe your sister ?? --- SAWMAN

 

[wildrider666]

Allow me to re-post......how does the LEO's handle different situations in states where OPEN CARRY is legal ???????? Can anyone(ESPECIALLY LEO's)give us insight into this. A LEO walks by a liquor store and the guy standing at the counter has a sidearm PLAINLY showing. Then what. Lemme guess....he runs in and dives on the guy that is presumably guilty,thumps him several times with his expandable baton,then hits him a couple of times with his stun gun/taser,before putting a knee in the back of his neck and cuffing him.

Then after the check, the dispatcher comes up with nothing and seems he was just in there to buy a newspaper. Soooooo the LEO unhooks the "bad guy",sez to him,"sorry for the inconvenience" and strolls out the door ???

The "bad guy" complains,the chief puts a "bad cop,no doughnut" letter in his file then he(his chief),just like magic,makes it disappear in 6 months.

Is that how you would like to be treated ?? How about your father ?? Maybe your sister ?? --- SAWMAN

Drama, drama, Drama Sawman! You miss the point, as you do on many issues. You want to push directly into conflict. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead! Like in your #25 above Demanding respect: "YOU WILL RESPECT ME OR I WILL HAVE YOU STANDING IN FRONT OF YOUR CAPTAIN. ." Really? I go with the whole treat'em as you want to be treated thing and operate that way in all encounters. But and I repeat BUT: I can pull you over demand your (not ask) for all your doc, question you, cite you if warranted, arrest you if needed and I do not have to say Good morning, Sir, Ma'am, Please, Thank you or Have a nice day. You would then complain that I didn't use good manners? What do you expect to achieve? Have your damaged ego stroked? You could tell the judge that I was rude and not polite too. Respect is given but must be earned to continue to receive it. Those who demand it have already shown they are unworthy as demanding respect regulates the other person as inferior.

Respectfully submitted,
WR

 

[SteveC]

Allow me to re-post......how does the LEO's handle different situations in states where OPEN CARRY is legal ???????? Can anyone(ESPECIALLY LEO's)give us insight into this. A LEO walks by a liquor store and the guy standing at the counter has a sidearm PLAINLY showing. Then what. Lemme guess....he runs in and dives on the guy that is presumably guilty,thumps him several times with his expandable baton,then hits him a couple of times with his stun gun/taser,before putting a knee in the back of his neck and cuffing him.

Then after the check, the dispatcher comes up with nothing and seems he was just in there to buy a newspaper. Soooooo the LEO unhooks the "bad guy",sez to him,"sorry for the inconvenience" and strolls out the door ???

I'm fear that is exactly the way Senator Feinstein & our commander & chief feel the situation you describe should be handled.

 

[TraderDan]

wildridder666 , are you a deputy in panama city? are you the one on blue lights that always pulls over the car full of pretty girls, and always lets them go?? lolthat must be a fun city to be a leo in, lots of stupid/drunk action.

 

[SAWMAN]

Uh sorry...I really don't know how to respond to your above wildrider unless I somehow touched a nerve. Anyway we are each entitled to our opinions. I reckon that I will just sit back and allow you to keep showing your ass. Or better still...wait 'til you think of it then simply agree.

I treat people with respect....I DEMAND the same. I do not feel that is asking too much, but apparently you do.

Kinda weird also is that you do not seem to want to talk about(and research)what LEO's do in a open carry state. Your task for the evening is to give this some thought and post the answer in the morning.

We will be waiting. --- SAWMAN

 

[Bean Counter]

Lets try these on for size.
Principle Five of the FDLE's officer requirements

Police officers shall treat all members of the public courteously and with respect.
Rationale
Police officers are the most visible form of local government. Therefore, police officers must make a positive impression when interacting with the public and each other.
Rules
5.1 Police officers shall exercise reasonable courtesy in their dealings with the public, fellow officers, superiors and subordinates.
5.2 No police officer shall ridicule, mock, deride, taunt, belittle, willfully embarrass, humiliate, or shame any person to do anything reasonably calculated to incite a person to violence.
5.3 Police officers shall promptly advise any inquiring citizen of the Department's complaint procedure, and shall follow the established departmental policy for processing complaints.

Guess I don't have to earn respect your rules dictate that you are respectful to me as a citizen.

From the FDLE Basic Recruit Training Program (just a few excerpts from 524 pages)

In order to communicate effectively, officers must not allow emotions to color their words or actions. They must remain calm and show no anger, fear, or other negative emotions. Officers must be the calming presence and not allow anger to worsen the situation. hostility and rudeness have no place in an officer’s relationship with the public. an officer does not gain public support by expressing irritation or frustration. Consequently, the officer should maintain a professional demeanor at all times.
(IN004.2.B.)

Listening
Listening takes practice and hard work and often requires much more energy than talking. a good listener concentrates on what is said, focusing on the words, ideas, and important data related to the subject and pays close attention to the speaker before evaluating his or her statement. also, a good listener never imposes cultural biases on the speaker or the information, not relying on the assumptions and moral values normally used to assess what they hear and see. rather, they should remain open-minded and sincerely listen to the speaker.

Sawman and every citizen is afforded respect from law enforcement by it's own rules. Officers should know the rules they are sworn to abide by.

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/Content...b36-a8e3-09497a911d91/FLBRC-LEV1-2011-07.aspx The excerpts were taken from this document.

 

[SAWMAN]

BC, thank you sir for posting the above. Unfortunately,probably....seems every citizen would be smart to carry a copy of this in their wallet and when asked to produce ID by any LEO, should be handed this also.

Allow me to state also that: 1. I have never been arrested. 2. I have never gotten a traffic ticket..for anything. 3. I have 6 close friends that are LEO's,local,state,and federal. 4. I actually pay taxes, both during the year AND at the end of the year. 5. I do not accept, or want, any type of government aid that I did not earn and pay into.

I harbor NO animosity towards LEO's. I fully understand and would agree that LEO's have voluntarily raised their right hand and swore an oath to do a job for a fair wage that is not an easy job. I acknowledge that it takes special skills to do this job. I understand that this job requires no signed contract. The LEO can turn in his badge ANYTIME he/she feels they cannot(for any reason)do this job anymore. If a LEO does a good job FOR the public he should be rewarded for his special skills. If A LEO does a shitty job,he/she should immediately be fired .... WITHOUT his union protecting him/her.

I think it is sad and tragic when ANY LEO gets harmed in the line of duty. If they do, his insurance should take care of him. Society should understand him, and his dedication to the public. His fellow officers should support and help him.

NOW..... I feel that all know my feelings on this subject, so this will be my last post on this thread. I respect the feelings of others on this subject. Some I feel are dead wrong,some I feel could have "a dog in the fight". Some I feel demand from all LEO's the same respect that is given. --- SAWMAN