FFL Revocations

[72sofsme]

a good article that's only a couple of months old that is covering the topic at hand ... please keep in mind that this is Nation Wide at this point. This also highlights why we ALL need to get involved at our State Level (since this forum covers several States) for a class action lawsuit! If you don't voice these issues with your Representives (State and Federal), then they see you as happy with it and there isn't anything for them to focus on!

Biden Administration Oversteps Its Bounds in Gun Shop Crackdown

In June 2021, the Biden administration announced it would change how it enforces the Gun Control Act of 1968. The act allows the federal government to revoke gun dealers’ license to sell firearms—commonly called federal firearms licenses or “FFLs”—when dealers “willfully” violate federal or...

www.texaspolicy.com

 

[Duckyou]

a good article that's only a couple of months old that is covering the topic at hand ... please keep in mind that this is Nation Wide at this point. This also highlights why we ALL need to get involved at our State Level (since this forum covers several States) for a class action lawsuit! If you don't voice these issues with your Representives (State and Federal), then they see you as happy with it and there isn't anything for them to focus on!

Biden Administration Oversteps Its Bounds in Gun Shop Crackdown

In June 2021, the Biden administration announced it would change how it enforces the Gun Control Act of 1968. The act allows the federal government to revoke gun dealers’ license to sell firearms—commonly called federal firearms licenses or “FFLs”—when dealers “willfully” violate federal or...

www.texaspolicy.com

A class action lawsuit would be nationwide.

Find a big firm and if there is a case then they will take it on contingency. They will make their 40% off the award plus all expenses. Florida would be a good state to start in.

 

[Roaster's Gallery]

When you call in a 4473, a recording says something to the effect - "does the date of birth, address, etc. EXACTLY match the government issued ID", before you even talk to a rep. Kind of like voting regulations proposed by voter suppression advocates.

 

[72sofsme]

When you call in a 4473, a recording says something to the effect - "does the date of birth, address, etc. EXACTLY match the government issued ID", before you even talk to a rep. Kind of like voting regulations proposed by voter suppression advocates.

"call in" ... everything is online now. Yes, small discrepancies are avoidable but also time consuming. With that being said, have you read the article i just posted? there are other WILLFUL simple mistakes going on. But the case with the three FFLs was not one of these! FDLE approved the transaction that the BATFE is saying was denied! That's the case here

 

[Duckyou]

When you call in a 4473, a recording says something to the effect - "does the date of birth, address, etc. EXACTLY match the government issued ID", before you even talk to a rep. Kind of like voting regulations proposed by voter suppression advocates.

"kind of like voting regulations proposed by voter suppression advocates".

WTF are you talking about?

 

[JWrecks]

He's saying that the conversations about voting suppression and FFL suppression are analogous. He is saying that it is hypocritical to claim voter suppression when they are overly fastidious about IDs with voting rights but they are applauding being overly fastidious when it comes to gun rights. At least that's what I think it means. Either way, it's a tu qouque.

 

[Roaster's Gallery]

He's saying that because the conversations about voting suppression and FFL suppression are analogous. He is saying that it is hypocritical to claim voter suppression when they are overly fastidious about IDs with voting rights but they are applauding being overly fastidious when it comes to gun rights. At least that's what I think it means. Either way, it's a tu qouque.

Thank you - I just don' have the energy to explain stuff as well some folks do.

not to mention, I learned a new phrase. I had to look it up.

 

[Duckyou]

He's saying that the conversations about voting suppression and FFL suppression are analogous. He is saying that it is hypocritical to claim voter suppression when they are overly fastidious about IDs with voting rights but they are applauding being overly fastidious when it comes to gun rights. At least that's what I think it means. Either way, it's a tu qouque.

I read it as “ ‘voter suppression advocates’ (which I would say is a derogatory way to refer to those who want voter ID laws) want voter ID laws but don’t want FFLs to have to follow the law”

 

[Roaster's Gallery]

I read it as “ ‘voter suppression advocates’ (which I would say is a derogatory way to refer to those who want voter ID laws) want voter ID laws but don’t want FFLs to have to follow the law”

You did understand what I was saying!

 

[Duckyou]

You did understand what I was saying!

Voter ID does not suppress any votes - check the stats. Georgia saw record turnout WITH voter ID added.

Black and brown people are NOT morons who can’t get an ID.

FFLs should follow the law as well.

 

[Roaster's Gallery]

Voter ID does not suppress any votes - check the stats. Georgia saw record turnout WITH voter ID added.

Black and brown people are NOT morons who can’t get an ID.

FFLs should follow the law as well.

Exactly! FFLs are not morons either. If the information on the ID does not match - you don't transfer a gun, and you don't allow a person to vote. What I'm saying is, people who cry "suppression" or "ATF is revoking FFLs", are allowing their emotions to affect their thought process.

 

[Snake-Eyes]

If a person is “denied” a vote because their ID doesn’t match (signature, name, address, whatever), they still have options to correct the problem. (Update their ID, correct an error on the roster, whatever). They still have an ability to Vote, just not at that exact moment.

If an FFL had a typographical error IN THE PAST, they usually had an opportunity to correct it, too.

NOW, it’s one-and-done. “Willful” error. FFL revoked. Do not pass Go. Turn in your records, and don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

Another difference is that voter ID requirements are written down as standards, and errors can be addressed.

The FFL inspections are left up to the discretion of the regional “standards” and the inspector. The FFL also can’t control the errors from another agency, yet the FFL is being held responsible for them. Any errors are considered “willful” and therefore there isn’t any room for correction. Just punitive consequences.


The ATF actual IS revoking FFLs for bogus reasons that are now “legitimate” only because of the regime’s marching orders.

Yet another demonstration that the ATF is off the rails.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

If it's been posted I missed it... so what exactly was this "one time" offense that resulted in the revocation?

 

[IronBeard]

FWIW, here is the response I received from my "elected representative" regarding the ATF's recent conduct. My contact e-mail specifically addressed the pending revocation of the FFL of Miles at Tradewinds Pawn Shop. Somehow that was perceived/twisted into pistol braces, but, whatever. I don't have or need a pistol brace, but believe anyone that needs/wants one ought to be able have it, painlessly, and without additional cost/ass-pain.

I find the third and fourth paragraph for the most part appealing/encouraging, but also believe this is just Gaetz, all by himself, tilting at windmills, and hoping to stay in his current job. Reality, IMO.

No, I did not contact my state legislature. Why? One, this is a federal issue. States are no longer "STATES" in that they are monetarily/politically beholden to/afraid of the feds. Therefore states have little/no say/impact, by deliberate action/choice IMO, on anything fedral; they'll just obey/go along. Yep, even Florida, IMO. Two, my local state-level "representative's" family sucked up income ($$$) through a family-owned/operated sporting goods business for years, all the while professing to existing/potential customers ($$$) that he were SO pro-Second Amendment. They were so Second Amendment that they closed business and sold the building when profit wasn't able to support thier chosen lifestyle. You have to wonder what they are doing to make up for the deficit? They damn sure aren't living to a lesser standard than they have come to demand/expect, IMO. In the end, my "representative" is SO Second Amendment that he has legislatively achieved/done jack-$%^& to advance/protect my (your?) firearms rights. But, "he's good people," "he goes to my church." Yep, that's how he gets reelected.......

"My" senators, Scott and Rubio, are no better. I have it, in writing, from both that they will pursue and vote in favor of any firearms legislation that, in their opinion, is about "firearms safety." In turn, I've let both know, in writing, that until I see public/overt proof that they are all about my Second Amendment rights, I will not cast a vote for either of them. Not that that matters...

IMO, if we're counting on/relying on soemone else, we're begging/courting failure. Anyway:

"Dear Mr. IronBeard,

Thank you for contacting my office and sharing your thoughts concerning the new rule issued by the ATF. As your Congressman, I am grateful for the opportunity to reply.

As long as I represent the First Congressional District of Florida in Congress, I will fight to protect your Second Amendment. Recently, the ATF issued a ruling that will force pistol brace owners to register their pistols as short barrel rifles with the federal government or face up to 10 years in jail and a potential $10,000 fine. The ATF abuses its rulemaking authority by creating arbitrary classes of firearms subject to stringent regulations, and in doing so, creates felons out of law-abiding Americans.

The ATF cannot be reformed. A Republican executive branch can’t convert it into an ally. It exists, and will always exist, to infringe upon your 2nd Amendment rights. The continued existence of the ATF is an assault on your right to bear arms, and I’m working to bring it to an end, and to eliminate the ATF once and for all.

That is why I introduced the "Abolish the ATF Act" after the agency's rule against stabilizing braces. This attack was the last straw. My bill would abolish the ATF, so you can continue to enjoy your God given rights.

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to reply to your message. If you would like to stay informed of the issues affecting Northwest Florida and our nation, please sign up for my weekly e-newsletter at http://Gaetz.house.gov.

Sincerely,

Matt Gaetz
Member of Congress"

 

[JWrecks]

FWIW, here is the response I received from my "elected representative" regarding the ATF's recent conduct. My contact e-mail specifically addressed the pending revocation of the FFL of Miles at Tradewinds Pawn Shop. Somehow that was perceived/twisted into pistol braces, but, whatever. I don't have or need a pistol brace, but believe anyone that needs/wants one ought to be able have it, painlessly, and without additional cost/ass-pain.

I find the third and fourth paragraph for the most part appealing/encouraging, but also believe this is just Gaetz, all by himself, tilting at windmills, and hoping to stay in his current job. Reality, IMO.

No, I did not contact my state legislature. Why? One, this is a federal issue. States are no longer "STATES" in that they are monetarily/politically beholden to/afraid of the feds. Therefore states have little/no say/impact, by deliberate action/choice IMO, on anything fedral; they'll just obey/go along. Yep, even Florida, IMO. Two, my local state-level "representative's" family sucked up income ($$$) through a family-owned/operated sporting goods business for years, all the while professing to existing/potential customers ($$$) that he were SO pro-Second Amendment. They were so Second Amendment that they closed business and sold the building when profit wasn't able to support thier chosen lifestyle. You have to wonder what they are doing to make up for the deficit? They damn sure aren't living to a lesser standard than they have come to demand/expect, IMO. In the end, my "representative" is SO Second Amendment that he has legislatively achieved/done jack-$%^& to advance/protect my (your?) firearms rights. But, "he's good people," "he goes to my church." Yep, that's how he gets reelected.......

"My" senators, Scott and Rubio, are no better. I have it, in writing, from both that they will pursue and vote in favor of any firearms legislation that, in their opinion, is about "firearms safety." In turn, I've let both know, in writing, that until I see public/overt proof that they are all about my Second Amendment rights, I will not cast a vote for either of them. Not that that matters...

IMO, if we're counting on/relying on soemone else, we're begging/courting failure. Anyway:

"Dear Mr. IronBeard,

Thank you for contacting my office and sharing your thoughts concerning the new rule issued by the ATF. As your Congressman, I am grateful for the opportunity to reply.

As long as I represent the First Congressional District of Florida in Congress, I will fight to protect your Second Amendment. Recently, the ATF issued a ruling that will force pistol brace owners to register their pistols as short barrel rifles with the federal government or face up to 10 years in jail and a potential $10,000 fine. The ATF abuses its rulemaking authority by creating arbitrary classes of firearms subject to stringent regulations, and in doing so, creates felons out of law-abiding Americans.

The ATF cannot be reformed. A Republican executive branch can’t convert it into an ally. It exists, and will always exist, to infringe upon your 2nd Amendment rights. The continued existence of the ATF is an assault on your right to bear arms, and I’m working to bring it to an end, and to eliminate the ATF once and for all.

That is why I introduced the "Abolish the ATF Act" after the agency's rule against stabilizing braces. This attack was the last straw. My bill would abolish the ATF, so you can continue to enjoy your God given rights.

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to reply to your message. If you would like to stay informed of the issues affecting Northwest Florida and our nation, please sign up for my weekly e-newsletter at http://Gaetz.house.gov.

Sincerely,

Matt Gaetz
Member of Congress"

An aside: it's funny to me the Representative Gaetz had a response ready to go on this. I emailed, texted, and phoned his office two different occasions two months apart when he initially rejected extending sanctions on Russia with 7 other reps.

All I got was a ""sorr,y. We're really busy, we'll get back to you email." maybe I should write him again...

 

[Welldoya]

Requiring an ID to vote is not voter suppression. It helps insure a fair election.
Now, and this is my own personal opinion, do we really want someone who is too worthless to have an ID voting on our (supposed) leaders?

 

[IronBeard]

An aside: it's funny to me the Representative Gaetz had a response ready to go on this. I emailed, texted, and phoned his office two different occasions two months apart when he initially rejected extending sanctions on Russia with 7 other reps.

All I got was a ""sorr,y. We're really busy, we'll get back to you email." maybe I should write him again...

Yeah, I'm pretty sure most all of these people have some type of boiler plate response ready for an aide to send. Still, maybe that means they've heard enough about the ATF that they felt compelled to draft a generic response. I personally, will not be betting on the ATF being abolished, although I'd welcome that.

 

[Roaster's Gallery]

Internal ATF docs show ‘zero tolerance’ guidelines for shutting down gun stores

Fox News Digital exclusively obtained internal documents from the ATF detailing its "zero tolerance" policy being used to revoke gun stores' federal firearms licenses.

news.yahoo.com

 

[Welldoya]

I’m staying at Navarre Beach for the Mardi Gras parade that yesterday they said was going on rain or shine then cancelled 3 hours before it was supposed to start.
So, with nothing to do, I went down to Tradewinds to look around.
I live in Pace so haven’t been in there in 3 or 4 years.
I really like the concept of the shop and he appears to have a very good inventory but daaaaaamn (and I’ve said this before), come up with better displays.
I tried to look at the guns but after 5 minutes my back and neck were killing me.
I saw at least 6 or 8 revolvers that I might be interested in. I asked to see two but they were priced quite a bit more than I wanted to pay so I didn’t bother to ask to see the others.
He really needs better cabinets but two things that would be cheap, easy to do and improve his displays greatly would be lighting in the cabinets and tags with the price in large numbers.
Make sure the tags are turned over so the price is visible. It would also help if the make & model is visible on the tag.
I could have easily walked out of there with 1 or 2 guns but instead left with nothing but a stiff neck.

 

[Duckyou]

I’m staying at Navarre Beach for the Mardi Gras parade that yesterday they said was going on rain or shine then cancelled 3 hours before it was supposed to start.
So, with nothing to do, I went down to Tradewinds to look around.
I live in Pace so haven’t been in there in 3 or 4 years.
I really like the concept of the shop and he appears to have a very good inventory but daaaaaamn (and I’ve said this before), come up with better displays.
I tried to look at the guns but after 5 minutes my back and neck were killing me.
I saw at least 6 or 8 revolvers that I might be interested in. I asked to see two but they were priced quite a bit more than I wanted to pay so I didn’t bother to ask to see the others.
He really needs better cabinets but two things that would be cheap, easy to do and improve his displays greatly would be lighting in the cabinets and tags with the price in large numbers.
Make sure the tags are turned over so the price is visible. It would also help if the make & model is visible on the tag.
I could have easily walked out of there with 1 or 2 guns but instead left with nothing but a stiff neck.

No need to invest in it now.