-
Please read the new forum rules! REQUIRED!
Click Here: https://www.gulfcoastgunforum.com/threads/general-forum-rules-code-of-conduct.70770/
-
New Reloading Sticky Thread for Trading, Swapping Gear, etc.
https://www.gulfcoastgunforum.com/threads/reloading-components-for-trade-item-value-and-photo.104847/
Closed
- Thread starter rossi
- Start date
The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Gulf Coast States
Member Benefits:
Fewer Ads! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
Not a good take at all in my opinion, a bca that runs correctly and has 7k on it is more rare than a unicorn in the wild. Colt, Smith & Wesson, IWI, and other ~$1,000ish rifles are budget friendly reliable rifles; BCA, Anderson, and the like are the cheapest for a reason, and reliability most certainly takes a hit. They cut a lot of corners to sell you a rifle for $600, like not dimpling the bottom of the barrel for gas block grub screws (gas block can work it's way off the port), not staking the gas key screws on the bcg, cheap gas key screws on the bcg (that have a tendency to break off, if they don't back out), low quality metal for receivers (x-ray them, they're full of air bubbles), bcg, and bolt resulting in premature wear, or all out broken stuff (prematurely sheared off bolt lugs), if they manage to run. Their machining is terrible, and their qc is worse, so an unhealthy majority of their products are out of spec. ALL of the cheap guns are overgassed, just to be sure they run, which is bad for the already weaker parts (again, if it manages to run).
I'll never understand why people pinch pennies so hard when it comes to life saving equipment. Save for another two weeks or a month or whatever if you're financially tight, and buy something that doesn't have a reputation for being garbage. Why take the chance on low quality gear, if you may have to replace it anyway? Just buy something duty grade to begin with, train with it, and not have to worry about it. If you aren't on a tight budget and you buy garbage anyway, you either don't know anything about the platform and didn't do any research, or you're being cheap, and it's always the latter who go out of their way to justify buying cheap guns. Either way, gun communities are slam full of both. Ironically, it's always people who can afford better who do this, people on a budget tend to do more research and ask questions to ensure they make a good buy.
At any rate, if that gun actually has 7k on it, congratulations on your unicorn, but I don't believe that it's made it that far without anything breaking or needing adjustment, and hasn't malfunctioned. You'd have an easier time convincing the pope you've met Elvis.
To all who may read this, please disregard this thread if you're looking for a budget rifle, and do plenty of research for yourselves before committing money to something you intend to protect life with. Low quality guns may have an attractive price tag, but they are VERY far from "just as good".
Sincerely, a poor with ~$9k wrapped up in two rifles, a lot of mechanical intellect, and an internet connection (the internet has a lot of information about literally everything, for those who don't know)
I'll never understand why people pinch pennies so hard when it comes to life saving equipment. Save for another two weeks or a month or whatever if you're financially tight, and buy something that doesn't have a reputation for being garbage. Why take the chance on low quality gear, if you may have to replace it anyway? Just buy something duty grade to begin with, train with it, and not have to worry about it. If you aren't on a tight budget and you buy garbage anyway, you either don't know anything about the platform and didn't do any research, or you're being cheap, and it's always the latter who go out of their way to justify buying cheap guns. Either way, gun communities are slam full of both. Ironically, it's always people who can afford better who do this, people on a budget tend to do more research and ask questions to ensure they make a good buy.
At any rate, if that gun actually has 7k on it, congratulations on your unicorn, but I don't believe that it's made it that far without anything breaking or needing adjustment, and hasn't malfunctioned. You'd have an easier time convincing the pope you've met Elvis.
To all who may read this, please disregard this thread if you're looking for a budget rifle, and do plenty of research for yourselves before committing money to something you intend to protect life with. Low quality guns may have an attractive price tag, but they are VERY far from "just as good".
Sincerely, a poor with ~$9k wrapped up in two rifles, a lot of mechanical intellect, and an internet connection (the internet has a lot of information about literally everything, for those who don't know)
Taxesar3theft
Expert
Way more educated than me clearly but i second this.
rossi
Master
21 Years Military and 16 LEO Experience with the Platform. If it was "Crap and Not Reliable", I wouldn't still have it. A lot of what you said about BCA is not true. Throw some "FACTUAL" documents up here, not Internet Musings.
Jevaughn
Master
I've never owned a bear creek, I have had a few dpms, PSA, bushmasters, and a couple of colts over the past 20 years as well as a few home builds, all did the job. Got and finish was the only real difference between any of them and the only problems I had were usually in my builds. Getting a carbine length gas system right is my damned kryptonite. The dpms wouldn't cycle steel cased ammo for shit, but was the most accurate. The PSAs were probably the best bang for the buck of any of them. After Sandy Hook, sold them all and haven't really even wanted another until recently. Now, looking a the Ruger SFAR 308
Taxesar3theft
Expert
Man you're old lol
Honestly, unless you're an armorer, your experience doesn't mean you have any skill or knowledge of the platform beyond basic field stripping and maintenance. Even then, .gov buys stuff in contracts from one manufacturer at a time. Over the last 30ish years, most of the military's AR type weapons have come from Colt, FN, and Daniel Defense until HK and Sig made their appearance. You wouldn't have seen any quality control or out of spec issues (outside of bolts with excessively worn lugs causing bad headspace) if you were an armorer, much less a person carrying one.
I've said nothing untrue, I'm speaking from hands on experience myself, working on guns for one of my friends who had made poor decisions buying guns, and doing research and building plenty others over the past few years, including a few from unfinished receivers that had to be milled out. Moreover, there's more than plenty of other evidence scattered around the web where people have also had the exact issues I've mentioned. Better still, check your receiver end plate for staking, pull your bcg out and look at the gas key screws, and pull your handguard and gas block off and look at that barrel, you'll find everything I've said to be true. While you're at it, inspect the bolt lugs, they'll probably be pretty worn at 7k, if they're all there and none have stress fractures on them.
I'm being realistic here, I've got nothing to gain by arguing with strangers on the internet, it makes no difference to me one way or another what you own, but if I help somebody else who is on the fence about what to buy to protect their family, then I, too, have protected their family myself, by stifling potentially harmful information. I mean no disrespect to you personally, but your one-off good experience (if it's true) with a brand with such a bad rap does not increase the credibility of that brand.
If you spend less than $1000 on an AR-15 in today's market, you've spent your money on a risky liability, period. Those $1000 rifles are the absolute bottom line lowest you can go and get a consistently reliable weapon, they aren't even the good ones, much less the "high dollar" weapons.
I've said nothing untrue, I'm speaking from hands on experience myself, working on guns for one of my friends who had made poor decisions buying guns, and doing research and building plenty others over the past few years, including a few from unfinished receivers that had to be milled out. Moreover, there's more than plenty of other evidence scattered around the web where people have also had the exact issues I've mentioned. Better still, check your receiver end plate for staking, pull your bcg out and look at the gas key screws, and pull your handguard and gas block off and look at that barrel, you'll find everything I've said to be true. While you're at it, inspect the bolt lugs, they'll probably be pretty worn at 7k, if they're all there and none have stress fractures on them.
I'm being realistic here, I've got nothing to gain by arguing with strangers on the internet, it makes no difference to me one way or another what you own, but if I help somebody else who is on the fence about what to buy to protect their family, then I, too, have protected their family myself, by stifling potentially harmful information. I mean no disrespect to you personally, but your one-off good experience (if it's true) with a brand with such a bad rap does not increase the credibility of that brand.
If you spend less than $1000 on an AR-15 in today's market, you've spent your money on a risky liability, period. Those $1000 rifles are the absolute bottom line lowest you can go and get a consistently reliable weapon, they aren't even the good ones, much less the "high dollar" weapons.
Rebel_Rider1969
Well Known Nuisance
Bca just needs to change their name to something catchy and 5x the price. It's just "dick waving" using firearm brands.
Btw I love sidechargers. Don't need fa, bullet bump or stupid zip stick. Stoner originally didn't have any of that crap on it. If you have an issue it's much easier to pull a handle and shake. Another stupid design is the latch on the ch. Why? SI makes a latchless handle that is far superior. Ymmv
Btw I love sidechargers. Don't need fa, bullet bump or stupid zip stick. Stoner originally didn't have any of that crap on it. If you have an issue it's much easier to pull a handle and shake. Another stupid design is the latch on the ch. Why? SI makes a latchless handle that is far superior. Ymmv
Taxesar3theft
Expert
Wouldn't change their qc though so
What is a bullet bump/zip stick? Brass deflector and charging handle?
Charging handle latch is to keep it closed, otherwise gas can blow it backwards and smack you in the cheek, especially shooting suppressed. Also, you can't clear a bolt override malfunction by just shaking it with the bolt back, and double feeds often have to be cleared by locking the bolt, removing the mag, and clearing the obstruction with your fingers through the magwell, unless you can get one through the ejection port, but the mag still has to come out.
Gingershooter
Master
27 people taken into custody by ICE agents during raid at Sanford manufacturing company
Approximately 30 people were taken into custody by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement at a manufacturing company in Sanford Tuesday morning.
abc11.com
Taxesar3theft
Expert
Now as a military guy and Leo you would think this story alone would be enough for him to not care for bca lol27 people taken into custody by ICE agents during raid at Sanford manufacturing company
Approximately 30 people were taken into custody by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement at a manufacturing company in Sanford Tuesday morning.
Rebel_Rider1969
Well Known Nuisance
Well, we better stop eating fruit and vegetables too.... get real.
Taxesar3theft
Expert
At least cheap fruits and vegetables with terrible qc haha
Bowhntr6pt
Master
AR parts prices are back low again.
I think the heart of any good rifle starts with the BCG and barrel. Personally, I believe you can build a rifle today that will see you through the toughest field conditions possible and still be well under 1K before adding an optic.
For the most part breaking a bolt or extractor are the main risks concerning cheaper parts followed by a poor chamber not allowing smooth extraction/feeding that's common with budget barrels.
Any in-spec upper/lower/LPK/CH are pretty affordable right now and usually don't cause issues.
No doubt there is A LOT MORE PURE JUNK out there today.
I think the heart of any good rifle starts with the BCG and barrel. Personally, I believe you can build a rifle today that will see you through the toughest field conditions possible and still be well under 1K before adding an optic.
For the most part breaking a bolt or extractor are the main risks concerning cheaper parts followed by a poor chamber not allowing smooth extraction/feeding that's common with budget barrels.
Any in-spec upper/lower/LPK/CH are pretty affordable right now and usually don't cause issues.
No doubt there is A LOT MORE PURE JUNK out there today.
Gingershooter
Master
Oh I'm not knocking it because of cheap labor. Cheap labor is the only thing that is keeping this country afloat. I'm saying don't boast a company that does bottom barrel practices/work as being just as good. They changed names as a company for a reason.
Attachments
I agree with you insofar as bcg and barrel being your reliability parts, but other problems still arise from lesser quality receivers being out of spec, and stuff like weak/out of spec hammer springs causing light strikes, etc. Sure, you may build one cheap, and get lucky and all the parts fit together, and it may even cycle properly, but if the machine work is out of spec by just a couple thousandths, it won't run correctly nor be long term reliable. If you aren't spending $300+ on new receivers, you're messing up, and $350+ on a barrel and bcg is a reasonable amount you can expect to spend on duty grade parts. The rest of the small parts and furniture will add up quickly, and there's not much price difference between quality small parts and cheap ones. For instance, a cheap trigger is what, 50 bucks? Sure, a geissele runs anywhere from $150-250, but larue's mbt 2s is another great and popular trigger, and it's like, $90. When it's all said and done, you certainly can nickel and dime one together, but a duty grade weapon that's infinitely less likely to give you problems down the road can be had for not much more.
Bowhntr6pt
Master
I base my cost opinions on direct observation with over twenty years LE, SWAT, Agency Instructor on a host of firearms crap, multiple Colt Armorers courses, and over ten years providing training classes with respectable class round counts.
I use to build rifles for guys for duty use, thousands and thousands of rounds in training and in classes. I stopped because people wanted to save $1 here or there and not source the parts from the few places I recommended. My "loaner" rifles I use in my classes have untold round counts and never has a student of mind experienced a malfunction, and we use the rifles fairly hard in my classes. They are all home built from reasonable parts sources.
I disagree with your cost requirement and price point on receivers. Notice I said in-spec above. An in-spec upper/lower for $100, which is what they go for now, won't have any issues and offers nothing less than sets costing 3x as much. PSA and Aero now have dependable receiver sets that won't cause issues. STAG, LBR, RRA, Wilson Combat, and a host of others apply as well.
As you might know, STAG is CMT's commercial parts outlet, or use to be, and their standard LPK's are all that's needed for a dependable FCG that will withstand a harsh environment. No need to spend $$$ on a boutique trigger... if it goes bang, it goes bang. A standard LPK from say CMMG or BCM will get the job done and costs less than $60.
I still say and believe a dependable rifle can be assembled for well under 1K, like $650-$700, no additional benefit to a $300 receiver set, and boutique triggers offer nothing for a "fighting" rifle. Precision work perhaps, but not a fighting rifle.
I do agree that $300 is a good price point for a quality CL or Nitride barrel and an MPI tested BCG. Quality BCG prices are really down right now with PSA offering one for like $60.00, sometimes with free shipping.
Just for the record, I carry a home-built AR on duty now that I recently relinquished my SWAT command and no longer carry a Colt Commando. I carry it vs. an agency issued rifle because I trust my life on its performance.
All the above is just one man's opinion, based on one man's observations and experiences.
