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ATF Overstepping AGAIN

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  • Will you contact our leaders about this issue?

    • Yes

      Votes: 3 75.0%
    • No

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    • NO, I'm a communist

      Votes: 1 25.0%

    • Total voters
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    Ned

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    Cross posting from Reddit. EMAIL YOU SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES
    New ATF interpretations restrict certain handgun imports, may require NFA registration.
    renderTimingPixel.png

    TL;DR: the ATF has created new standards to judge pistol imports by, including size and caliber, and has apparently revoked some import permits for pistol versions of rifles. This could signal an incoming policy change with regards to pistol versions of ARs, AKs, etc.

    Here's the link. Wiley is a large and reputable law firm, likely representing clients in the firearm industry. When they refer to recent ATF letters in their alert, you can trust that they're legitimate.
    Summary:
    Many firearms are imported into the US as large pistols in order to avoid the harsh "sporting purposes" restrictions on rifle imports. The HK SP5 is a good example of this. Although it's large, it's imported as a pistol.
    Before the past few months, the ATF didn't care how large those pistols were. As long as it didn't have a stock or vertical foregrip, they considered it a pistol. However, they've apparently recently reversed course and created new standards to judge imports by. According to recent letters, these include:
    • Incorporation of rifle sights;
    • Utilization of "rifle caliber ammunition" (both 5.56mm and 7.62mm have been considered as such);
    • Incorporation of “rifle-length barrel;”
    • The “weapon’s heavy weight;”
    • Ability to accept magazines that range in capacity from 20 rounds to 100 rounds, “which will contribute to the overall weight of the firearm”; and
    • Overall length of the weapon which “creates a front-heavy imbalance when held in one hand.”
    Any combination of the above features may lead to consideration of the firearm as something other
    than a handgun
    . According to the letters, the ATF apparently refuses to create clear standards, and claims that presence of one of those features doesn't necessarily disqualify a firearm from import. However the ATF has also apparently revoked previously-approved import permits, which illustrates a clear change in their interpretation of the law.

    Potential effects on pistols, including AR pistols with braces:
    According to the National Firearms Act (NFA), a firearm with an overall length less than 26 inches that isn't a handgun, rifle, or shotgun is an Any Other Weapon (AOW). AOWs are subject to NFA registration, just like short barrel rifles.

    Because the ATF has apparently begun interpreting firearms with the above listed features as non-handguns when considering import applications, they may choose to mirror that interpretation when considering domestic firearms. This means that many AR and AK pistols (and similar), including ones with braces, could become subject to the NFA. This would require registration and a $200 tax.

    This is speculation however, so you don't need to take any action as of this moment. But beware that a formal announcement from the ATF may come in the near future, as they have already been grappling with transparency requirements when it comes to this apparent reversal.

    Disclaimer:
    Keep in mind that this information comes from a single law firm--Wiley Law in Washington, DC. Although they're a very large firm and federal regulation is one of their specialties, this alert does not represent an official announcement from the ATF. It merely signals that clarification from the ATF may be forthcoming in the near future.

    I have been emailing this to my reps and our 2 Senators. ATF? more like WTF

    "It has come to light that the ATF intends to retroactively reclassify braced AR and AK pistols as Any Other Weapons under the unconstitutional National Firearms Act effectively making hundreds of thousands of law abiding US citizens felons over night. These unlawful and unconstitutional ATF rulings can not stand, the ATF bureaucrats are not elected officials and should not be permitted to arbitrarily create laws, especially laws that undermine the US constitution and that serve to make criminals of law abiding citizens. It is time for the executive branch to hold accountable the bureaucrats at the BATFE and to represent and protect the constitutional rights of the American people. As one of your constituents I demand that you take action on this matter lest hundreds of thousands of Americans be deemed criminals due to an arbitrary ruling by a non-legislative branch of the government. As elected officials it is your sworn duty to uphold the constitution. You must stand for the American people and protect their constitutional right!"

    Do your part, get their inboxes full!
     

    jmfillin1

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    Cross posting from Reddit. EMAIL YOU SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES
    New ATF interpretations restrict certain handgun imports, may require NFA registration.
    renderTimingPixel.png

    TL;DR: the ATF has created new standards to judge pistol imports by, including size and caliber, and has apparently revoked some import permits for pistol versions of rifles. This could signal an incoming policy change with regards to pistol versions of ARs, AKs, etc.

    Here's the link. Wiley is a large and reputable law firm, likely representing clients in the firearm industry. When they refer to recent ATF letters in their alert, you can trust that they're legitimate.
    Summary:
    Many firearms are imported into the US as large pistols in order to avoid the harsh "sporting purposes" restrictions on rifle imports. The HK SP5 is a good example of this. Although it's large, it's imported as a pistol.
    Before the past few months, the ATF didn't care how large those pistols were. As long as it didn't have a stock or vertical foregrip, they considered it a pistol. However, they've apparently recently reversed course and created new standards to judge imports by. According to recent letters, these include:
    • Incorporation of rifle sights;
    • Utilization of "rifle caliber ammunition" (both 5.56mm and 7.62mm have been considered as such);
    • Incorporation of “rifle-length barrel;”
    • The “weapon’s heavy weight;”
    • Ability to accept magazines that range in capacity from 20 rounds to 100 rounds, “which will contribute to the overall weight of the firearm”; and
    • Overall length of the weapon which “creates a front-heavy imbalance when held in one hand.”
    Any combination of the above features may lead to consideration of the firearm as something other
    than a handgun
    . According to the letters, the ATF apparently refuses to create clear standards, and claims that presence of one of those features doesn't necessarily disqualify a firearm from import. However the ATF has also apparently revoked previously-approved import permits, which illustrates a clear change in their interpretation of the law.

    Potential effects on pistols, including AR pistols with braces:
    According to the National Firearms Act (NFA), a firearm with an overall length less than 26 inches that isn't a handgun, rifle, or shotgun is an Any Other Weapon (AOW). AOWs are subject to NFA registration, just like short barrel rifles.

    Because the ATF has apparently begun interpreting firearms with the above listed features as non-handguns when considering import applications, they may choose to mirror that interpretation when considering domestic firearms. This means that many AR and AK pistols (and similar), including ones with braces, could become subject to the NFA. This would require registration and a $200 tax.

    This is speculation however, so you don't need to take any action as of this moment. But beware that a formal announcement from the ATF may come in the near future, as they have already been grappling with transparency requirements when it comes to this apparent reversal.

    Disclaimer:
    Keep in mind that this information comes from a single law firm--Wiley Law in Washington, DC. Although they're a very large firm and federal regulation is one of their specialties, this alert does not represent an official announcement from the ATF. It merely signals that clarification from the ATF may be forthcoming in the near future.

    I have been emailing this to my reps and our 2 Senators. ATF? more like WTF

    "It has come to light that the ATF intends to retroactively reclassify braced AR and AK pistols as Any Other Weapons under the unconstitutional National Firearms Act effectively making hundreds of thousands of law abiding US citizens felons over night. These unlawful and unconstitutional ATF rulings can not stand, the ATF bureaucrats are not elected officials and should not be permitted to arbitrarily create laws, especially laws that undermine the US constitution and that serve to make criminals of law abiding citizens. It is time for the executive branch to hold accountable the bureaucrats at the BATFE and to represent and protect the constitutional rights of the American people. As one of your constituents I demand that you take action on this matter lest hundreds of thousands of Americans be deemed criminals due to an arbitrary ruling by a non-legislative branch of the government. As elected officials it is your sworn duty to uphold the constitution. You must stand for the American people and protect their constitutional right!"

    Do your part, get their inboxes full!
    It's so stupid that law abiding citizens reap the punishment of actions caused by criminals and gang violence. It's clearly an attack of our rights hidden under the cloak of "minimizing gun violence." I would surmise that a fractional percentage of gun violence is committed with firearms that fall under this legislation.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
     

    FrommerStop

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    Hey everyone....Daniel.flanderd is a new member here, but I want to vouch for him 100%. Daniel is a stand up guy, a Veteran, and a shooting buddy of mine. Daniel is good people.
    Well if these are no longer pistols
    Utilization of "rifle caliber ammunition" (both 5.56mm and 7.62mm have been considered as such);
    Then how about some true AP ammo for 5.56, 7.62 Nato, and 7.62x39.
     
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    FrommerStop

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    It's so stupid that law abiding citizens reap the punishment of actions caused by criminals and gang violence. It's clearly an attack of our rights hidden under the cloak of "minimizing gun violence." I would surmise that a fractional percentage of gun violence is committed with firearms that fall under this legislation.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
    It is vicious and not so much stupid. Someone wants your weapons, better ask what they intended to do to you once you hand them over.
     

    FrommerStop

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    ATFE. Alcohol, tobacco, firearms, explosives.

    Do they show as much attention to alcohol and tobacco as they do to firearms. Maybe they should give firearms a rest.


    Maybe focus on regulating high capacity coolers. :oops:

    View attachment 95905

    Two different alphabets do the regulation now days.
    Booze
    The Department of the Treasury's Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB) regulates aspects of alcohol production, importation, wholesale distribution, labeling, and advertising.

    Guns
    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), a division of the Department of Justice, administers the GCA. The ATF also regulates the standards for issuing licenses to gun vendors. Shotguns, rifles, machine guns, firearm mufflers and silencers are regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934
     

    ccather

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    Thanks for the info! Did not realize that.

    So what does the alcohol part of ATFE do?

    I could Google it, but I will likely get a better answer here.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Thanks for the info! Did not realize that.

    So what does the alcohol part of ATFE do?

    I could Google it, but I will likely get a better answer here.
    I do not know the specifics, but the government like any organization likes re-organized things to be more consistent.
    Today most of alcohol regulation is permitting of large factories and dealing with tax issues from it. They do still get on to people for illegal distilling. At the university laboratories they used to a real pain because they needed to regulate and account for the usage of non-denatured alcohol that scientists often require. Than there are the ethanol farming stills all over the place and some people thinking that smaller stills can be used to make distilled alcohol. It is the distilling that is illegal and not the fermentation that makes alcohol.
     

    kidsoncoffee

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    Cross posting from Reddit. EMAIL YOU SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES
    New ATF interpretations restrict certain handgun imports, may require NFA registration.
    renderTimingPixel.png

    TL;DR: the ATF has created new standards to judge pistol imports by, including size and caliber, and has apparently revoked some import permits for pistol versions of rifles. This could signal an incoming policy change with regards to pistol versions of ARs, AKs, etc.

    Here's the link. Wiley is a large and reputable law firm, likely representing clients in the firearm industry. When they refer to recent ATF letters in their alert, you can trust that they're legitimate.
    Summary:
    Many firearms are imported into the US as large pistols in order to avoid the harsh "sporting purposes" restrictions on rifle imports. The HK SP5 is a good example of this. Although it's large, it's imported as a pistol.
    Before the past few months, the ATF didn't care how large those pistols were. As long as it didn't have a stock or vertical foregrip, they considered it a pistol. However, they've apparently recently reversed course and created new standards to judge imports by. According to recent letters, these include:
    • Incorporation of rifle sights;
    • Utilization of "rifle caliber ammunition" (both 5.56mm and 7.62mm have been considered as such);
    • Incorporation of “rifle-length barrel;”
    • The “weapon’s heavy weight;”
    • Ability to accept magazines that range in capacity from 20 rounds to 100 rounds, “which will contribute to the overall weight of the firearm”; and
    • Overall length of the weapon which “creates a front-heavy imbalance when held in one hand.”
    Any combination of the above features may lead to consideration of the firearm as something other
    than a handgun
    . According to the letters, the ATF apparently refuses to create clear standards, and claims that presence of one of those features doesn't necessarily disqualify a firearm from import. However the ATF has also apparently revoked previously-approved import permits, which illustrates a clear change in their interpretation of the law.

    Potential effects on pistols, including AR pistols with braces:
    According to the National Firearms Act (NFA), a firearm with an overall length less than 26 inches that isn't a handgun, rifle, or shotgun is an Any Other Weapon (AOW). AOWs are subject to NFA registration, just like short barrel rifles.

    Because the ATF has apparently begun interpreting firearms with the above listed features as non-handguns when considering import applications, they may choose to mirror that interpretation when considering domestic firearms. This means that many AR and AK pistols (and similar), including ones with braces, could become subject to the NFA. This would require registration and a $200 tax.

    This is speculation however, so you don't need to take any action as of this moment. But beware that a formal announcement from the ATF may come in the near future, as they have already been grappling with transparency requirements when it comes to this apparent reversal.

    Disclaimer:
    Keep in mind that this information comes from a single law firm--Wiley Law in Washington, DC. Although they're a very large firm and federal regulation is one of their specialties, this alert does not represent an official announcement from the ATF. It merely signals that clarification from the ATF may be forthcoming in the near future.

    I have been emailing this to my reps and our 2 Senators. ATF? more like WTF

    "It has come to light that the ATF intends to retroactively reclassify braced AR and AK pistols as Any Other Weapons under the unconstitutional National Firearms Act effectively making hundreds of thousands of law abiding US citizens felons over night. These unlawful and unconstitutional ATF rulings can not stand, the ATF bureaucrats are not elected officials and should not be permitted to arbitrarily create laws, especially laws that undermine the US constitution and that serve to make criminals of law abiding citizens. It is time for the executive branch to hold accountable the bureaucrats at the BATFE and to represent and protect the constitutional rights of the American people. As one of your constituents I demand that you take action on this matter lest hundreds of thousands of Americans be deemed criminals due to an arbitrary ruling by a non-legislative branch of the government. As elected officials it is your sworn duty to uphold the constitution. You must stand for the American people and protect their constitutional right!"

    Do your part, get their inboxes full!
    I emailed Broxson and I hope everyone else emails their Senators. The ATF needs to be disbanded. These pieces of shit can't just make up laws at every whim. They're not elected officials.
     

    Glock31c

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    ATFE. Alcohol, tobacco, firearms, explosives.

    Do they show as much attention to alcohol and tobacco as they do to firearms. Maybe they should give firearms a rest.


    Maybe focus on regulating high capacity coolers. :oops:

    View attachment 95905
    No they got a whole show about moonshine and don’t no changes or changes go against them.
     

    Raven

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    ATFE. Alcohol, tobacco, firearms, explosives.

    Do they show as much attention to alcohol and tobacco as they do to firearms. Maybe they should give firearms a rest.


    Maybe focus on regulating high capacity coolers. :oops:

    View attachment 95905
    Automobile accidents year after year are the number one leading cause of death. I'm sure alcohol plays a role in a large part of them accidents. You dont see anybody screaming for Prohibition again. Nope, because there's too much money and big business involved, you're right Stage20. And that's the text book definition of fascism: big government controlled by big business. Big business is the shadow government, the government above government. And by the way that's why the left really freaked out about Trumps first election and every day since plotted the coup, because Trump is old money, big huge money, the shadow government stepping forward and taking the reigns from the bumbling idiots screwing up the economy. And he turned around and in less than a couple of years built the strongest business economy that any American has seen in decades
     
    Last edited:

    FrommerStop

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    And that's the text book definition of fascism: big government controlled by big business.
    It is more complicated than that. Our government since the civil war for sure has been controlled by big business. But it has never been what I would call a dictatorship. Sure there were excesses, but that is true anywhere.
    But honestly Biden et al has the bigger moneyed interests in his camp is my thinking and is laying the tenets of dictatorship. Mass media and their owners, health care industries, banks and insurance industries and others are pushing the agenda of the democratic party.
    It is the smaller businesses that likely gain the most from trump. Biden will not be taxing the ultrarich regardless of what garbage his mouth is spewing out.
    national health care is not exclusively left wing. Nazis
    The Nazi social welfare provisions included old age insurance, rent supplements, unemployment and disability benefits, old-age homes and interest-free loans for married couples, along with healthcare insurance, which was not decreed mandatory until 1941

    Strictly the word fascist refers to the bundle of sticks with an ax that has been used on US currency.
    Below a fasces that is an ancient symbol of authority. ' The fasces were a bundle of rods and a single axe which were carried as a symbol of magisterial and priestly authority in ancient Rome '
    1603882554256.png


    This is from the US house of representative
    1603882601853.png
     

    FrommerStop

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    how one citizen got a cease and desist letter form the ATF after he sold a cheap gun at a gun show that got traced back to him. My concern is that I wish to cut down on what I own and eventually sell some of my guns that I never use anymore. Looks like the ATF is trying to force everyone to sell through an FFL.




     
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