Bundy Indictment

[Fletch]

http://media.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/other/2016/02/11/clivenbundycomplaint.pdf

Just read it and holy cow is he going to jail for a long time. It also mentions conspirators and the pointing of weapons at federal law enforcement agents from the overpass. Many idiots produced youtube videos proudly admitting they did the very things alleged in the indictment. They literally did the FBI's job for them and made public confessions with video proof of their actions. Probably a lot of conversations like this going on about right now.

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/oBzvMLW0ii4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[JBryan314]

The way things are out West in the ranch regions with the land rights and stuff is something few people understand unless they live out that way. I spent a little time in Arizona and was lucky enough to learn a little bit about how things go out there. Things may seem cut and dry to us, one way or the other, but it's really not. The federal government via the Bureau of Land Management and other entities basically claim ownership to almost everything out there. The ranchers oppose that in a lot of cases though, and it creates friction and dispute. Whether the government officially "legally" owns the land or not doesn't seem to be what most of the disputes are over. A lot of people out that way understand that the laws and books and regulations really do grant the land to the Feds, and they don't argue that. What they argue is that the laws and books and regulations shouldn't have been made to grant the Feds the land in such large amounts. Look at the map of the amount of the land out west is owned by the Feds. That seems to be the big argument.

I fully support the grievances the ranchers out west have with the Feds. I don't think the Feds have the right to control such massive positions of land in the western states. I don't fully support every action taken by the ranchers though. I think this issue that happened in Burns, Oregon, or wherever exactly it was, was a foolish plan concocted by people who didn't know what they were doing or what they were getting into.

The stuff that went down in Nevada at the Bundy's ranch is fine by me though. You had federal agents coming in to take the private property, cattle, of a citizen who allowed the cattle to graze on federal lands that I don't think the Feds should "own" in the first place. Armed free citizens showed up to stop them, no one was hurt (except when some officer tazed someone) and the cattle stayed with the owner.

The U.S. Army field manual on Guerrilla Warfare (FM 31-21, September, 1961, page 5) says: "Resistance movements begin to form when dissatisfaction occurs among strongly motivated individuals who cannot further their cause by peaceful or legal means."

A growing number of people out west and in the US in general feel like their own political causes are impossible to persue legally or peacefully. Stuff like this is going to start happening more often.

 

[3 men & a boat]

I thought the Oregon protestors where upset over the two ranchers that where arrested for performing a controlled burn; tried, sentenced, and served their time, only to later get revisited by federal agents using some odd legal technicality that allowed the fed to skirt around Double Jeopardy.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...he-oregon-militia-standoff-explained-20160103


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[fl57caveman]

The U.S. Army field manual on Guerrilla Warfare (FM 31-21, September, 1961, page 5) says: "Resistance movements begin to form when dissatisfaction occurs among strongly motivated individuals who cannot further their cause by peaceful or legal means."

A growing number of people out west and in the US in general feel like their own political causes are impossible to persue legally or peacefully. Stuff like this is going to start happening more often.

you dang skippy they will

 

[Fletch]

you dang skippy they will

And they will also go to federal prison or be shot if they point weapons at and try to impede federal law enforcement officers carrying out lawful court orders. Just as a bunch of folks who got caught up and lost their heads for a bit are about to find out, actions do indeed have consequences.

 

[fl57caveman]

And they will also go to federal prison or be shot if they point weapons at and try to impede federal law enforcement officers carrying out lawful court orders. Just as a bunch of folks who got caught up and lost their heads for a bit are about to find out, actions do indeed have consequences.

the Nazis had legal court orders also....everything in order, come with me please...


just saying....improper, immoral and illegal actions by govt, should lead to nullification of laws by citizens...it is part of our heritage..

 

[Steve@JCA]

I thought the Oregon protestors where upset over the two ranchers that where arrested for performing a controlled burn; tried, sentenced, and served their time, only to later get revisited by federal agents using some odd legal technicality that allowed the fed to skirt around Double Jeopardy.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...he-oregon-militia-standoff-explained-20160103

Yep. Different situation, but tied to the same family in a way. The ranchers involved in basically the same situation (BLM bought up all the lands around the ranches & then tried to force them off the federal lands the family had legally held grazing rights to since the early 1900's) up in Oregon had gone to Nevada to stand in support of the Bundy family when the feds tried to illegally pull their grazing permits, so Cliven Bundy spoke out in support of the folks in Oregon & his son traveled up there not long ago to stand by the Oregon family facing the same issues.

 

[Steve@JCA]

And they will also go to federal prison or be shot if they point weapons at and try to impede federal law enforcement officers carrying out lawful court orders. Just as a bunch of folks who got caught up and lost their heads for a bit are about to find out, actions do indeed have consequences.

Sorry, I'm confused, which group of folks are you saying are going to find out actions do, indeed, have consequences, the ranchers who held legal paperwork authorizing them to graze on the lands, or the out-of-control federal government that arbitrarily decided to expand the federal government's land ownership WAY beyond the scope allowed for in the US Constitution?

 

[JBryan314]

Threads like these are great for finding out who the statists are.

It's time to start weeding each other out and drawing lines for which side we are on when the it goes down. It's time now.

 

[Seanpcola]

Threads like these are great for finding out who the statists are.

It's time to start weeding each other out and drawing lines for which side we are on when the it goes down. It's time now.

Lets not.

 

[Fletch]

Okay I'm done. Sorry I started this and should have know it would go to hell in a hand basket rather quickly. Sorry mods please close.

 

[Steve@JCA]

Okay I'm done. Sorry I started this and should have know it would go to hell in a hand basket rather quickly. Sorry mods please close.

Sorry Fletch, I honestly wasn't picking. Just wasn't sure which way you meant it. Everyone is free to their own opinion.

 

[fl57caveman]

it is a valid subject, and I understand your view...based on what you see in the msm.

to begin, the bundys had grazing rights in nv going back decades, an agreement, if you want, a contract...the blm, under bill Clinton, changed the terms and fees arbitrarily in the 90's....the bundys never agreed, and the fines starting building....until the bundy ranch incident occurred, under strong pushing from harry reid, the devils right hand man...

they backed off when faced with armed resistance, they could have put a lien & settled after clivens death, but no, they had to push it...


in Oregon, the ranchers set fires to burn underbrush and invasive plants, on land, also under their control, thru grazing rights, and were sentenced to jail, served time and released for arson...

then the govt , calling the original sentence too low, began to push for re-jailing them....and the current situation occurred...





you should have seen Baltimore rioters and burners arrested for arson...but no, they were given room to destroy....

the ranchers destroyed nothing, and are being persecuted for their defiance, by armed resistance, to govt authority...and you can bet the filthy hand of harry reid is on the scales of justice.

read the constitution, it provides the answers...

 

[Seanpcola]

Fletch and everone:

No issue with the OP, just not going to tolerate posts advocating certain actions whether I or the admin agree or not.

 

[rufus11381]

Sean it's hard not to see this series of events as us slipping into totalitarianism, we have Bernie Sanders running for president and a loud portion of the country that doesn't understand the limitations of the federal government, we are in fact currently on the road to a totalitarian communist state and many people want to stop it peacefully, but look back at history and ask yourself how well that has worked out previously, the short answer is that it hasn't

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[Seanpcola]

Trust me, I'm a seriously political animal. Started when my dad made me read the morning paper every day since I was old enough to put the words together. I digest more government transgression info every day than most people do in a month. I've also been a devourer of history for as long. My posts had nothing to do with the info, my opinion of what's wrong or what's going to eventually happen. To spell it out: We don't allow discussion of militias or armed insurgency on GCGF for obvious reasons.

For the record: Statements saying we have to side up against each other, you're a liberal idiot if you don't agree with me or anything close is pushing the envelope of rules here.

 

[rufus11381]

Yeah, not endorsing anything, the pot hasn't boiled yet so to speak, however in the coming years that rule will be hard to avoid, like was previously stated, these things will continue to happen more often, on a ever increasing scale, and become unavoidable to the community at large, I'm not screaming for revolution by any means but I can't see our current trajectory taking us anywhere else, things need to change and in the dichotomy of government corruption change can only come from outside as there is no opportunity to change from within without becoming corrupted and assimilated into the system.

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[DSPLCD1]

Let's RIOT!!!!

 

[Seanpcola]

You? RIOT? You piddled your Underoos over an electrical spark.

 

[DSPLCD1]

No one was suppose to know that Man!! You just can't keep a secret around here. ..