Bundy Indictment

[rufus11381]

Hey now Sean that's no joke, I was once changing a fuel filter on a crj and had some douche pull a lock out tag and activate some cb's and manage to fire the ignitors, after I got done messing myself I was already dragging him onto the hangar floor and headed to the foremans table

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

 

[Seanpcola]

Hey now Sean that's no joke, I was once changing a fuel filter on a crj and had some douche pull a lock out tag and activate some cb's and manage to fire the ignitors, after I got done messing myself I was already dragging him onto the hangar floor and headed to the foremans table

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

I'm so used to injury and things blowing up in my face that I don't even flinch anymore.:dizzy:

 

[Fletch]

Said I was done but did run across an article on the matter worth sharing imo.


https://www.hcn.org/articles/malheur-occupation-oregon-ammon-bundy-public-lands-essay



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fl57caveman]

link is broken

 

[rufus11381]

Gif is broken too

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

 

[fl57caveman]

got it to work...interesting thoughts..

 

[fl57caveman]

more interesting...

https://www.facebook.com/2MillionBikersDC/videos/1062888677107311/

 

[MarkS]

Hey now Sean that's no joke, I was once changing a fuel filter on a crj and had some douche pull a lock out tag and activate some cb's and manage to fire the ignitors, after I got done messing myself I was already dragging him onto the hangar floor and headed to the foremans table

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

My father-in-law had his thumb almost completely severed due to some dumb jackass pulling the lock out tags off the switch's to the industrial fans he was rewiring, damn fan picked him up off his feet and he just managed to get a one hand grip outside the duct and pull himself clear. Almost 5 years of surgery for him to use his right thumb again. Sorry for the hi-jack but lock out tags are serious

 

[JBryan314]

Everyone is free to their own opinion.

Some opinions seem more equal than others on occasion.

 

[donr101395]

Some opinions seem more equal than others on occasion.

That's because they are, this is a forum that is owned by someone who invested their money into it. They get to choose what is acceptable for discussion, what isn't acceptable and who's opinions are to be discarded.

 

[Steve@JCA]

Said I was done but did run across an article on the matter worth sharing imo.

https://www.hcn.org/articles/malheur-occupation-oregon-ammon-bundy-public-lands-essay

Nice. Sadly, I am not at all surprised. One thing I have noticed in life is that, oddly enough, the people who seem to fuss the loudest about things are often the ones who understand the least about them. When you couple that with the fact that most folks are fairly insecure in public (either that, or they are smart enough to keep their mouth shut when the press is around) & the over-riding fact that news agencies & the print press are "for-Profit" businesses, the old saying about "if it bleeds, it leads" ends up resulting in the crazy lady in her bathrobe & house slippers telling us about how the aliens inside the tornado stole her neighbor rather than an interview with someone who is actually well informed about the situation the reporter is there to cover. I really did like the author's comment about how, in his experience, a single outrageous quote could ruin the public's perception of the articles validity. I certainly agree with him on that point & wish the rest of the press would take his lead.

My great-great grandparents on both sides immigrated to the US & settled in Montana where one side began raising sheep and the other side ran cattle. By the time I was born, my Dad's grand-dad had given up on the sheep after he lost his butt when he wasn't smart enough to realize that with the end of WWI, the demand for commercial wool & mutton from the military would disappear & the 25,000 sheep he had would become worth next to nothing in a period of 5 or 6 months. They kept the cattle they had & he entered law enforcement & eventually worked as a revenue agent during the 20s & then was elected as the sheriff of Wheatland county & stayed in that job until he died. My Mom's family ran between 1500 & 2600 head of Hereford cattle on roughly 4700 acres of owned land & 4 leased "school-sections" of grazing land.

The land leased from the State was called school-sections because, as established by the Land Ordinance of 1785, the income produced by the leases held by local ranchers was to be utilized to support the school districts in the county the land was located in. President Teddy Roosevelt pulled most of these lands out of the grazing pool in 1934 when he pushed the Taylor grazing act (the one the author talks about) through congress in order to "protect Federal lands from overgrazing, or other abuses". In typical fashion, people still refer to these areas as school sections (at least where I am from) but then, instead of 100% of the grazing receipts going to the Sate to be used as they saw fit, only 12.5% is given to the State & the federal government gets the rest. When the BLM started pushing ranching families off of grazing lands they had legally-binding, lifetime leases issued for in the mid-70's, many ranchers started putting up legal fights to keep the government from arbitrarily eliminating their ability to continue making a living as cattle ranchers. Surprise Surprise, when many of the ranchers began winning their cases in Federal court, the government passed the Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976 (FLPMA) which preempted the Taylor grazing act of 1934. Under the FLPMA, the BLM can basically do whatever they want with all of the State-held lands they herded together under the 1934 taylor act (even though many constitutional lawyers have always insisted it was illegal for the BLM [Federal Government] to own since the constitution is very limiting in what lands the fed is allowed to possess).

The face of family ranching & farming in the American West has completely changed in the last 30 years. Just as the author said, there are hardly any of the old style cattle & sheep ranches & wheat/barley farms left in MT anymore. There is no cost effective way for someone to just decide they want to farm or ranch any longer. If the land is not already in the family, it is financially impossible to fund the purchase of land, equipment & livestock using the profits generated by running the operation. Other than tiny little hobby operations & the older - existing family ranches, everything where I was raised has been bought up by large corporate farming & ranching operations, or by investment groups from back East who purchase several small ranches, hire a ranch manager & use local people for labor until they can break up the place & sell it off to people from large cities who have made a mint on real estate, or other means, who then decide they want to live in the West. They sell their properties for top dollar in the city & move to the rural areas to retire where they pay a crazy amount for a small hobby ranch & it has driven the land costs through the roof. It works because they want the view & the lifestyle & they have the money in the bank so they are not worried about making a living off the land.

PK, sorry about the rant. I will get off my soapbox now. It just spins me up when stuff like this happens & the media spouts all this BS about something they have no understanding of. That would be ok, but you would think they would at least do a bit of research, like the author of this story did, before they start calling the ranchers & farmer who are trying to scrape by terrorists.

 

[MAXman]

I think the part many people have issue with is the armed take over of a building.

I doubt you'll find many people happy over the systematic destruction of the middle class and small buissness by the bed-mates federal goverment and multi billion dollar corporations. Interesting post Steve,

 

[FUPAGUNT]

I'm so used to injury and things blowing up in my face that I don't even flinch anymore.:dizzy:

Must... resist.........ahhhahshdvfvfbjsnsjdbfhfhfh

 

[Fletch]

That's some great insight from a firsthand perspective offered in a non-confrontational tone. Thank you for that and maybe it will set a good example to follow. As usual it's a hell of a lot more complicated than the cheap bumper sticker slogans folks on both sides throw out.

I can understand the frustration these ranchers have watching their way of life and ability to earn a living disappear. There are lot of competing interest fighting for control of the land out west. Not sure that 100% privatization is the answer though.

The federal and state government's are the only way some amazing wilderness areas will remain open to the common man to hunt and recreate on. That doesn't mean I stand in full agreement with how the BLM and other agencies have handled things though.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ric-san]

Steve...very good history of the west from where you grew up. I think you meant FDR (Prez 1933-45) vs Teddy Roosevelt (Prez 1901-09) as passing the Taylor Grazing Act.
Damn, that is one long read. A friend of mine from High School and Marines and still a buddy is a Sheriff's Deputy in Mohave County Arizona, home of the FLDS in Colorado City AZ. I hear of their craziness all of the time. Uncle Warren Jeffs flock. I didn't realize that the Bundy's were Mormons. Not too sure how much that has to do with their acts of defiance towards the government. I know they are fighting for grazing rights, but I don't think one family or even one group of people who may or may not have been wronged can hold the government hostage to their demands. We are a country of laws and rules, not just anarchists. If you are wronged you go to the courts. No matter what your position (left or right), thats how we roll here in this country. You are not going to win every battle. Look at Bush vs, Gore and Citizens United and even obamacare and same sex marriage. You (your party affiliation) win some and you loose some. Pretty simple. I didn't think that in my lifetime I would see gays and even transgenders let in to serve openly, but here we are. I'm just glad to have retired from the Marines 10 yrs ago so I didn't have to deal with the craziness thats going on now. If you support a cause, rock that bumper sticker with pride, send them money, give them your vote....you show up with your guns to support them, you may end up in the pokey or dead, pretty simple, and you will not enjoy the outcome of what happens, weather you (your cause) wins or looses...this is just my $.02

 

[rufus11381]

Steve...very good history of the west from where you grew up. I think you meant FDR (Prez 1933-45) vs Teddy Roosevelt (Prez 1901-09) as passing the Taylor Grazing Act.
Damn, that is one long read. A friend of mine from High School and Marines and still a buddy is a Sheriff's Deputy in Mohave County Arizona, home of the FLDS in Colorado City AZ. I hear of their craziness all of the time. Uncle Warren Jeffs flock. I didn't realize that the Bundy's were Mormons. Not too sure how much that has to do with their acts of defiance towards the government. I know they are fighting for grazing rights, but I don't think one family or even one group of people who may or may not have been wronged can hold the government hostage to their demands. We are a country of laws and rules, not just anarchists. If you are wronged you go to the courts. No matter what your position (left or right), thats how we roll here in this country. You are not going to win every battle. Look at Bush vs, Gore and Citizens United and even obamacare and same sex marriage. You (your party affiliation) win some and you loose some. Pretty simple. I didn't think that in my lifetime I would see gays and even transgenders let in to serve openly, but here we are. I'm just glad to have retired from the Marines 10 yrs ago so I didn't have to deal with the craziness thats going on now. If you support a cause, rock that bumper sticker with pride, send them money, give them your vote....you show up with your guns to support them, you may end up in the pokey or dead, pretty simple, and you will not enjoy the outcome of what happens, weather you (your cause) wins or looses...this is just my $.02

I agree with this and very deeply wish for it to be the solution to our country's problems moving forward, but just as a thought experiment where does the line lay for us (we the people) to operate the darkest form of intent laid out in the second amendment? What level of grievousness of corruption brings justification?

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

 

[fl57caveman]

LAS VEGAS (AP) — Federal authorities rounded up 12 people in five states on Thursday, bringing to 19 the number of defendants facing conspiracy, assault and threats charges in a 2014 armed standoff over grazing cattle on U.S. land near renegade cattleman Cliven Bundy's ranch in southern Nevada.

Arrests of alleged co-conspirators in Arizona, Utah, Idaho, Oklahoma and New Hampshire came after a federal grand jury in Las Vegas expanded an indictment already filed against Bundy. It also names two adult Bundy sons and five other men already in federal custody following the end of a nearly six-week armed occupation of a wildlife refuge in Oregon.
Court documents accuse the men of leading more than 200 followers into an armed confrontation that forced federal Bureau of Land Management agents and contract cowboys to abandon an effort to corral and remove Bundy cattle from federal lands where he was accused of letting them graze for decades without paying federal fees.
At the family home in Bunkerville, Nevada, Cliven Bundy's wife, Carol, acknowledged that her husband and sons Ammon, Ryan, Melvin and David Bundy were in federal custody. The mother of 14 adult children pleaded for prayer and echoed her husband's call to fight government overreach.
"I truly believe this is showing the federal government thinks they have unlimited power over we the people," Carol Bundy told The Associated Press in a brief telephone interview. "What kind of government do we have?"
"This is going to be won in the court of public opinion," she added. "When we the people make a stand, that's when we'll win."
Bundy supporters Ryan Payne of Montana, Peter Santilli Jr. of Cincinnati, and Brian Cavalier and Blaine Cooper, both of Arizona, were also already in custody. They were arrested Jan. 26 during the occupation of a federal wildlife refuge in eastern Oregon.
The arrests in the Nevada case came the same day U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch said in Portland, Oregon, that additional charges would be filed "very soon" in the 41-day standoff at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. She didn't provide specifics.
The nine-count indictment in U.S. District Court in Las Vegas is similar to one filed Feb. 11, the day after Cliven Bundy was arrested as he arrived in Portland to visit Ammon and Ryan Bundy in jail.
The brothers were among 16 defendants who pleaded not guilty last week to federal conspiracy charges. A total of 25 people are charged in the occupation. The occupiers had said they wanted the U.S. government to relinquish public lands to locals and free two Oregon ranchers who they say were wrongly imprisoned for setting fires.
In an interview from the Portland, Oregon, jail where Bundy's son, Ammon Bundy, has been lodged since his arrest, he told The Oregonian he's not ashamed of what he and others did in seizing the refuge.
"It's the most difficult thing I've ever done in my life," Ammon Bundy said of being in jail. "But I don't regret what we did because I knew it was right."
The younger Bundy said as he sees it, they went into a public building and carried out a demonstration.
In the Nevada armed showdown case, charges include conspiracy to commit an offense against the United States; threatening a federal law enforcement officer; obstruction of justice; attempting to impede or injure a federal law enforcement officer; and several firearms charges.
The indictment alleges co-defendants recruited, trained and provided support to armed men and other Bundy followers during a dispute over more than $1 million in unpaid grazing fees and penalties. Officials say the fees still haven't been paid.
It identifies Cliven Bundy as the leader and beneficiary of the conspiracy, and Ammon and Ryan Bundy as leaders and organizers of about 200 gunmen and followers.
The result: A picket line of self-styled Bundy militia perched on a high Interstate 15 bridge, pointing military-style AR-15 and AK-47 weapons down at BLM agents and cowboys herding cattle up a ravine to a corral. Dozens of woman and children were in the possible crossfire.
The federal officials backed down, and they released about 400 cows that had been rounded up.
Documents submitted following the Thursday arrest of Gerald "Jerry" DeLemus in Rochester, New Hampshire, said that DeLemus "organized and led armed patrols and security checkpoints" for several following weeks around the Bundy ranch in southern Nevada.
DeLemus was running for Strafford County sheriff in New Hampshire when he was arrested. He appeared in custody in federal court in Concord, New Hampshire, for a detention hearing that was postponed until Monday. His wife, Republican state Rep. Susan DeLemus, said she planned to hire a lawyer for his defense.
Federal officials identified others arrested Thursday as: Blaine Cooper of Humboldt, Arizona; Eric J. Parker and Steven A. Stewart, both of Hailey, Idaho; O. Scott Drexler of Challis, Idaho; Richard R. Lovelien of Westville, Oklahoma; Todd C. Engel of Boundary County, Idaho; Gregory P. Burleson of Phoenix; Joseph D. O'Shaughnessy of Cottonwood, Arizona; and Micah L. McGuire and Jason D. Woods both of Chandler, Ariz

 

[rufus11381]

Here we go, the rap sheets just keep magically getting longer, the media keeps coloring them as guilty before due process is served, prepare for socialism folks, this is the dog and pony show that the establishment wants in order to convince ppl that the state knows best, "remain calm, your government will take care of everything"

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

 

[fl57caveman]

Here we go, the rap sheets just keep magically getting longer, the media keeps coloring them as guilty before due process is served, prepare for socialism folks, this is the dog and pony show that the establishment wants in order to convince ppl that the state knows best, "remain calm, your government will take care of everything"

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

I knew that dirty rat harry reid would not let this rest....citizens defending govt overreach , & getting arrests for felonies.....

they should have started the shooting 2 yrs ago...article reads women & children were in the potential crossfire...

they neglected to mention the women pushed their way up front to confront the feds...

 

[rufus11381]

It's all pandering and semantics, they're making Bundy into the whipping boy to try to cow any patriots who think like he does

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk