Your thoughts

[Droshki]

What is being lost is the reason why the players are protesting. In 2015 the police in this country killed over 1,100 citizens. Nearly half of those killed were minorities (Black, Hispanics etc . . with the majority being blacks). Twenty-five percent of the black males shot were unarmed. That is twice the rate for whites. Black males are 9 time more likely to be killed by police than whites.

I know that suicide by cop is a real thing and I realize that an unarmed man is still potentially dangerous - still that is nuts. If 25% of the folks shot by concealed carry holders were unarmed - we would collectively lose our rights to carry concealed.

I also understand that confrontations between police and suspects can get heated but several of these killings occur while the suspect is complying (such as the motorist in Minnesota who was shot during a traffic stop, or the motorist in NJ who was shot when, in compliance with police instructions got out of his car with his hands in the air. or the motorist in Tulsa who, in compliance with police instructions was walking towards them with his hands in the air) and in many instances is unable to resist or threaten the officer (panhandler in Louisianan who was laying face down on the ground when officer when he was shot). These shooting are caught on video- what happened in not in question. If I shot an unarmed man who was lying face down on the ground while I stood over him, my ass would be in prison.

I don't view the protest as disrespectful I view it as patriotic. Those who serve in the military do not fight for a flag or an anthem. They fight for us and the principles of our country, including the right to peacefully protest and to voice our displeasure with the government. We as citizens have an obligation and a right to speak out when we feel the system is broken. These athletes are using the spotlight to bring this matter into national attention. Good for them. They are not rioting. They are kneeling quietly in protest of a judicial system that they feel is biased and broken.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-police-killings-2015-young-black-men

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/01/black-americans-killed-by-police-analysis

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...by-police-america_us_577da633e4b0c590f7e7fb17


Thanks for staring this thread. Before I started researching this I was of the opinion that while I did not support the protest, I believe that the players have the first amendment right to protest. Now that I have done some research, I want to take a knee as well.

Word.

Nor is kneeling a sign of disrespect. It's a show of fealty. I know because I've been to church and been told we kneel before God as a sign of submission. Same reason they kneel before the king/queen.

 

[Droshki]

Michael Hayden: In Trump versus NFL, standing up for free speech

As a 39-year military veteran, I think I know something about the flag, the anthem, patriotism, and I think I know why we fight. It's not to allow the president to divide us by wrapping himself in the national banner

.

 

[Garym]

That has to be the biggest load of b.s. I have ever seen. I see they left out why blacks seem to have more run ins with the police. I wonder why that is?

 

[Garym]

First, we find that during the 2012/2013 period, blacks committed an average of 560,600 violent crimes against whites, whereas whites committed only 99,403 such crimes against blacks. This means blacks were the attackers in 84.9 percent of the violent crimes involving blacks and whites. This figure is consistent with reports from 2008, the last year DOJ released similar statistics. Perhaps not coincidentally, that was the year Mr. Obama was elected president.

 

[Viking1204]

Yeah it's easy to only post stats that support your agenda while leaving out the stats that show why those stats exist.

 

[Garym]

Amazing isn't it.

 

[Ricochet]

Amazing isn't it.

Like neurolinguistic programing or cult brain washing or a mental disorder...

 

[Garym]

If they ever start an Olympics for mental gymnastics the liberals would clean house!

 

[wildrider666]

Direct TV offering refunds on Sunday Ticket package to people offended by player/team protests. Ratings drop too. I hope the NFL starts loosing big money from empty seats and hopefully pulled advertising.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2017/09/27/directv-nfl-protest-anthem-ratings/

 

[fl57caveman]

Word.

Nor is kneeling a sign of disrespect. It's a show of fealty. I know because I've been to church and been told we kneel before God as a sign of submission. Same reason they kneel before the king/queen.

I kneel before Him because he is my maker, my reason for being here, a natural part of that is submission, but that is not the reason. He is Lord, the Great I Am, the one who came here as a man, died, and rose again, to live forever more.....I kneel to thank him for my life, I serve, he is my commanding officer.

by the way, every knee will bow to Him, and every tongue confess He is Lord, it is written. whether you accept Him as Lord, or deny him to turn to islams, the easter bunny or atheist....you will acknowledge Him

but you are deflecting issues, it is disrespectful to kneel while the natl anthem or God bless America is sung, do you agree on that?

 

[fl57caveman]

That has to be the biggest load of b.s. I have ever seen. I see they left out why blacks seem to have more run ins with the police. I wonder why that is?

well lets see what a source other than huffington post, vox, mother jones, or the times or post says(king of liberal half fake news)


http://lawofficer.com/laws/police-shootings-and-race/


Eugene has kindly invited me to present findings from my new book, “The War on Cops.” The book argues that the Black Lives Matter narrative about a racist criminal-justice system is false and dangerous — dangerous to innocent black lives that are being lost to rising crime and, it would increasingly appear, to law and order itself as cops become the target of assassination.
In future posts, I will discuss the most controversial aspect of “The War on Cops”: my claim that the current rise in violent crime in many American cities is the result of officers backing off of proactive policing.
Today, however, I want to address the question of police shootings and race, in light of the recent fatal police shootings of Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge and Philando Castile in Falcon Heights, Minn. Those shootings have amplified the charge that the U.S. is experiencing an epidemic of racially driven police shootings. A New York Times editorial, for example, asked, “When Will the Killing Stop?” The chair of the Congressional Black Caucus, Rep. G.K. Butterfield (D-N.C.), asserted on the House floor that “most” of the people fatally shot by the police this year have been African American.
In fact, as of July 9, whites were 54 percent of the 440 police shooting victims this year whose race was known, blacks were 28 percent and Hispanics were 18 percent, according to The Washington Post’s ongoing database of fatal police shootings. Those ratios are similar to last year’s tally, in which whites made up 50 percent of the 987 fatal police shootings, and blacks, 26 percent. (The vast majority of those police homicide victims were armed or otherwise threatening the officer.) But Butterfield could be forgiven his error, given the virtually exclusive media focus on black victims of police officers.
Does the actual distribution of police victims confirm the Black Lives Matter allegation that policing is lethally biased? That depends on the benchmark chosen for assessing police actions.
Typically, activists and the media measure police actions against population ratios. Given that blacks are 13 percent of the nation’s population, a 26 to 28 percent black share of police gun fatalities looks disproportionate. But policing should be measured against crime rates, not population percentages, because law enforcement today is data-driven. Officers are deployed to where people are most being victimized, and that is primarily in minority neighborhoods.
In America’s 75 largest counties, comprising most of the nation’s population, blacks constituted 62 percent of all robbery defendants in 2009, 57 percent of all murder defendants, and 45 percent of all assault defendants — but roughly 15 percent of the population in those counties. In New York, where blacks make up 23 percent of the city’s population, blacks commit three-quarters of all shootings and 70 percent of all robberies, according to victims and witnesses. (Whites, by contrast, commit less than 2 percent of all shootings in New York City and 4 percent of all robberies, though they are nearly 34 percent of the population.)
New York City’s crime disparities are repeated in virtually all American metropolises. They will determine where officers are most often called to a drive-by shooting or an armed robbery, and where officers are most likely to face violent and resisting criminals — encounters which can lead to officers’ own use of deadly force. Police critics have never answered the question of what they think non-biased policing data should look like, in light of the vast differences in rates of criminal offending. Blacks commit homicide at nearly eight times the rate of whites and Hispanics combined. Black males between the ages of 14 and 17 commit gun homicide at nearly 10 times the rate of white and Hispanic male teens combined. Should police stops, arrests and those rare police shootings nevertheless mirror population ratios, rather than crime ratios? The answer is not forthcoming from Black Lives Matter activists.

 

[Droshki]

but you are deflecting issues, it is disrespectful to kneel while the natl anthem or God bless America is sung, do you agree on that?

Then by your reasoning it must be disrespectful to kneel before God. Its the same gesture. The only difference is your personal interpretation.

 

[fl57caveman]

Then by your reasoning it must be disrespectful to kneel before God. Its the same gesture. The only difference is your personal interpretation.

you did not answer the question. my personal belief and millions more, is that it is dis-respectful, to the flag yes, but that is a symbol, it honors those who have died defending it to kneel during the anthem, do you agree, or not?


I don't care what reason is used, just the question above,

 

[Droshki]

you did not answer the question. my personal belief and millions more, is that it is dis-respectful, to the flag yes, but that is a symbol, it honors those who have died defending it to kneel during the anthem, do you agree, or not?


I don't care what reason is used, just the question above,

Is it a disrespectful gesture or not?

 

[fl57caveman]

Is it a disrespectful gesture or not?

I don't how I can say it clearer.

it is disrespectful to kneel when you were taught to stand, for your country, what the flag stands for , (freedom), and the men and women who have died to defend them.

do you agree or not, a simple yes or no

 

[Droshki]

I don't how I can say it clearer.

it is disrespectful to kneel when you were taught to stand, for your country, what the flag stands for , (freedom), and the men and women who have died to defend them.

do you agree or not, a simple yes or no

Is it a disrespectful gesture? Yes or no? Sorry, cant have it both ways.

 

[fl57caveman]

Is it a disrespectful gesture? Yes or no? Sorry, cant have it both ways.

I can only surmise you are a troll, since I asked you twice a direct question, and you have not answered, and returned the question to me...which I have already gave my thoughts, did you not see that???

let's just skip it..

1. Trolls, in general, consider themselves separate from the social order.
2. Trolls do not abide by etiquette or the rules of common courtesy.
3. Trolls consider themselves above social responsibility.
4. Trolls gain energy by you insulting them.
5. Trolls gain energy when you get angry.
6. The only way to deal with an online troll is to ignore him or take away his ability to post online.

 

[fl57caveman]

droshki,

I love your taste in women, I sincerely respect your service to our country if you have served, and I think you have, I like your taste in guns, but we don't see eye to eye on politics, and I suspect religion too, so I will TRY to
keep any future responses to your posts, ones that are on those subjects...

peace out

 

[Garym]

Caveman you have just seen the Democratic playbook in action, When the facts are presented and show that the b.s. narrative they are peddling is a bunch of crap. They deflect, deflect, deflect.

 

[fl57caveman]

Caveman you have just seen the Democratic playbook in action, When the facts are presented and show that the b.s. narrative they are peddling is a bunch of crap. They deflect, deflect, deflect.

yep, seen it before...on a few forums.

seen two small forums ruined totally, no one posts hardly any more, but that was due to the moderators being big progressive liberals, one from mass, one Canadian...and treating their "facts" as more factual than the ones presented in posts, from actual studies, they were true, but didn't fit the "narrative", so they shouted them down

and out