You're gonna want one too!

[DaSandmanCometh]

The G42 is a big letdown.

 

[CCHGN]

I see what you're saying, and I know it differs for everyone, but I personally don't have trouble taming that massive 9mm recoil. I use to Cary 357mag but decided I would trade off power for capacity so I switched to 40 and now have 9+1. I like the r51 but I personally couldn't justify 7+1 in 9mm, might as well go back to 5 rounds of mag power.
The r53..I couldn't find a lot on it, but if it's as thin as the 51, I'd probably like that.

remember it's +P, so it's more like a .357gap.
Let me ask you this, do you carry a gun that you'd be comfortable attempting a double tap head shot with a BG who has your loved one held hostage, as a shield, across a room? Heck,even without a hostage?


I submit that when it comes down to it, 99% of the carry guns out there are TOTALLY wrong for CCW carry. If you can't consistantly, from the draw, double tap and keyhole 2 to the eye socket at 10 yds, you're carrying the wrong pistol. I can do it with my M&P9 but not my P-11.

 

[CCHGN]

I like the price of the R51 and $429 SMSRP, and actually a friend of mine just ordered one here and it was expected in either tomorrow or Monday. Supposedly they are already out there at the distributors.

Hmmm, any dealers here carrying them?

 

[Aaronious45]

I actually don't see the point of people practicing at 7yds, the closest I practice is about 15yds. I feel extremely proficient with my carry weapon (xd subcompact 40)

 

[Aaronious45]

Cchgn, can you find me a link to the r53

 

[Fletch]

remember it's +P, so it's more like a .357gap.
Let me ask you this, do you carry a gun that you'd be comfortable attempting a double tap head shot with a BG who has your loved one held hostage, as a shield, across a room? Heck,even without a hostage?


I submit that when it comes down to it, 99% of the carry guns out there are TOTALLY wrong for CCW carry. If you can't consistantly, from the draw, double tap and keyhole 2 to the eye socket at 10 yds, you're carrying the wrong pistol. I can do it with my M&P9 but not my P-11.

You serious Clark? Speaking for myself I do not carry a dead nuts accurate rifle and think I would have the opportunity to set up in a fashion in which I would dream of taking such a shot that would probably have my nerves fried.

No offense but that is absurd and complete Hollywood inspired fantasy. In a real dynamic situation their head would be moving and it would be an extremely difficult shot for even world class hand gunners to make. Throw in adrenalin and it's just not likely to end well.

Shooting the hostage in the leg would be a better option than potentially blowing their head off. It can't be stressed enough how much more difficult an unpredictably moving target of that small size is to hit. Not even close to the same as double tapping a small target on a square range.

A gun that is easily carried, concealed, and can be quickly deployed to put shots into center mass inside of 7 yards with at best a flash sight picture is what is needed for ccw. This is common knowledge in the training community among the most accomplished and credentialed instructors.




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[CCHGN]

Shooting the hostage in the leg would be a better option than potentially blowing their head off.

well, speaking of being serious,,,,really? The legs? The legs move twice as fast as THE HEAD.

I was presenting an extreme scenario to show the real danger of false bravado of carrying a pistol for it's "cool" factor or some marketing ploy, like a 3" .45.


Anyway, that's what I practice, folks can practice what they want. If I can consistantly double tap keyhole, from the draw, it doesn't matter what the actual target is, we're talking a 1" spot, but mainly it gives me the confidence that I'm going to hit what I aim at.

AFA actual training, the folks I listen to say to shoot the BG to the ground, so that's a whole nother subject. I've done FOF, so know how actual shoot outs go, you're more interested in getting off the X than actually hitting the other guy. In other words, you're more interested in not getting shot than shooting the other guy.

 

[Dan1612]

CCHGN,
Why double tap? If the first round is a good bullet and well placed, you're just wasting ammo.
A 45 XDS is a good and accurate carry pistol, not a marketing ploy IMO. (Though I don't own one, I see the viability).
Do you have the upgraded trigger on that M&P? I like the gun, but don't care for the reset at all. I can't imagine trying to double tap with the same ease as something with more crisp reset.


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[Aaronious45]

Are gene and Clark the same person?!

 

[Urbanfuturistic]

...consistantly(perhaps you meant to use constantly here?) double tap keyhole, from the draw...

I call bullshit and want to see it in person with others there as witness as well. From a draw. Two to the same hole. Multiple times in a row.

 

[CCHGN]

CCHGN,
Why double tap? If the first round is a good bullet and well placed, you're just wasting ammo.

well, imo, the only bullets you waste are the ones that miss or are not shot. Remember, you're shooting for your life. Many instructors say shoot them to the ground, so the first two is only the beginning of many.

A 45 XDS is a good and accurate carry pistol, not a marketing ploy IMO. (Though I don't own one, I see the viability).

well, that's your opinion and you have a right to it. Btw, I was refering to the 3" .45 being a marketing ploy. Anyway, I still hold to my opinion that any pistol that you can't consistantly place tight groups, from the draw, that's the wrong pistol for you( you meaning anyone)..

Do you have the upgraded trigger on that M&P? I like the gun, but don't care for the reset at all. I can't imagine trying to double tap with the same ease as something with more crisp reset.

Yes, absolutely. I prefer the 1911( 5" bbl), with it's SA trigger and short reset. That trigger is as close as I've seen to a SA reset.

 

[CCHGN]

Are gene and Clark the same person?!

Hmmm, things that make ya go hmmm.:shocked:

 

[CCHGN]

Originally Posted by CCHGN
...consistantly{(perhaps you meant to use constantly here?)added by others} double tap keyhole, from the draw...

I call bullshit and want to see it in person with others there as witness as well. From a draw. Two to the same hole. Multiple times in a row.

I wonder why the doubt? You've never done it or seen it done? it's really not that hard, if you have the right combo of parts( pistol, caliber, holster and form).

IS there part of your perception that I don't have a grasp on the English language? If I meant to use constantly there, I would. I used the word I meant. Consistantly means consistantly and constantly means something else..

So, is there any part of your misperception that thinks that if I do it once, that I couldn't do it again and again? Can't you percieve that the more I( meaning anyone) do it, the easier it gets? Really it's a good practice, which shows you( meaning anyone) have found the right combo of pistol, caliber, holster and form.Btw, I've never professed that in a real SHTF scenario( I hope I never have to), I just say that if I did have to, I'd have the confidence that I could.


Btw, why would you need other witnesses? IS your witness not good enough?

Btw, keyhole is not necessarily two in the same hole, it's two that are so close that they look like a keyhole, may or may not be touching, but I really think that same hole has a different term.

Btw, have you ever done force on force? That's really the best real practice. That'll show that you want to do the keyhole thing, one handed, while running for cover.

 

[Dan1612]

well, imo, the only bullets you waste are the ones that miss or are not shot. Remember, you're shooting for your life. Many instructors say shoot them to the ground, so the first two is only the beginning of many.

I've seen, read and heard that. Personally, I don't like it. My carry gun only holds 8+1 (with a double mag pouch, but reloading is not the plan if it's unnecessary , so theoretically , putting them into a threat that has a half inch hole center of mass doesn't really make sense. I believe in enough viable defense until and only until the thread is neutralized. Dumping half a mag into one, when there may be others, just doesn't make sense, to me.

well, that's your opinion and you have a right to it. Btw, I was refering to the 3" .45 being a marketing ploy. Anyway, I still hold to my opinion that any pistol that you can't consistantly place tight groups, from the draw, that's the wrong pistol for you( you meaning anyone)..

3" 1911s , how I wish they worked and that my favorite maker made one, but they don't and for good reason, that's why I'm exploring the XDS, even though it's plastic, has a terrible trigger and no place for my thumb to go.

Yes, absolutely. I prefer the 1911( 5" bbl), with it's SA trigger and short reset. That trigger is as close as I've seen to a SA reset.

Close double taps are much more of a possibility with that piece of gear, which is my favorite as well.

Presenting my sometimes differing opinion, not for argument, but as an alternate point of view. Thanks.




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[CCHGN]

I've seen, read and heard that. Personally, I don't like it. My carry gun only holds 8+1 (with a double mag pouch, but reloading is not the plan if it's unnecessary

well, also, what if you have a catastrophic failure/ what good would extra mags help? I susbscribe to the NYC reload( extra gun)

, so theoretically , putting them into a threat that has a half inch hole center of mass doesn't really make sense. I believe in enough viable defense until and only until the thread is neutralized. Dumping half a mag into one, when there may be others, just doesn't make sense, to me.

Ok, we're talking apples and oranges here. I'm talking about a scenario, where, you have one chance to make one shot( maybe at a standoff or they don't see you). There's no one in the way, you have a clear shot and a double tap to the head would end it.

In most other scenarios where they're likely already shooting( or they see you and are facing you) and you have to duck for cover, sure, aiming center of mass is the most viable solution. I'm all for doing and using what is appropriate for the situation( including de-escalating and begging out).

I'm in my 14th year of IDPA and I've seen dozens of folks shoot whole courses with all head shots( unless the COF required 2 to the chest and 1 to the head). Most scenarios require one (or two) to all targets first and then going back and doing it again. That is another practice that I do.

3" 1911s , how I wish they worked and that my favorite maker made one, but they don't and for good reason, that's why I'm exploring the XDS, even though it's plastic, has a terrible trigger and no place for my thumb to go.

Yeah, there's NO way I'd even consider one.

Close double taps are much more of a possibility with that piece of gear, which is my favorite as well.

IMO, close double taps is as much the gear then the skill, but it can be done. I's just emphasizing the common mistake folks make thinking that because a particular pistol( 3" .45 or long pull DAO) is cool or compact, that'd it be a good CCW. All I say is try it. Can you actually control it. IMo, the worst thing is a miss and hit a bystander. Not to mention, you're missing the BG.

Presenting my sometimes differing opinion, not for argument, but as an alternate point of view. Thanks.

I have NO problem with opposing view points, if presented with civility. Thank you.

 

[Dan1612]

I definitely see your point. What's your NY reload piece? I'm looking for one, myself. Is it a small pocket type thing, or do you do something like this:

While that might be a bit much, I've also seen them angled, which makes more sense, but would probably have to be custom:

I'm dying to get into IDPA


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[Fletch]

I can see rare and unlikely situations where a double tap to the head would be viable. Like a mass shooter wearing body armor for example. However if the need for such a shot were to arise no doubt I would prefer a 5" 1911 with a nice trigger. The hostage scenario is just one in which I would not feel confidant in taking the shot and most likely wouldn't. My "cheap" Rock Island 10mm 1911 will out shoot any polymer gun I've ever handled by a large margin . It's almost too easy at the range just making a big ragged hole in the target. There is just no comparison in accuracy compared to the compact and mid-size polymers.

But carrying a full sized 1911 can get cumbersome. I've tried with a double stitched reinforced gun belt and quality crossbreed type holster and it's doable but gets old. I can feel it dragging my pants down especially if I have to run to cross a street or chase my dog. My favorite carry gun for a blend of comfort, accuracy, and effective caliber had been a Walther PPS 9mm up until recently. Now I have a Taurus PT111 G2 that carries just the same as the PPS and holds 12+1.

It's not as accurate as a 1911 but should get the job done in the most likely scenarios in which one may need to defend themselves with a firearm. At this point I've decided the ease of comfort and carry is worth the trade-off in accuracy and distance. When I'm in athletic clothes or board shorts it's a Diamondback 380 in a pocket holster. It's all a personal decision and there is no one right solution for everyone. Hopefully none of us will ever have to pull a firearm in self-defense. I'm committed to carrying pretty much 24/7 but not willing to dress up around a full-size 1911 24/7.

Each to his own and anything is better than nothing imo. If one feels like they need a full sized 1911, a BUG, 4 extra mags of ammo, an everyday utility knife, a "self-defense" only knife, a leatherman, a trauma kit, main light, a backup light, para cord for emergency repelling, and etc for every situation they may possibly encounter then go for it. If I felt the need for all that I would just say screw it and carry a man purse.

 

[Dan1612]

But carrying a full sized 1911 can get cumbersome. I've tried with a double stitched reinforced gun belt and quality crossbreed type holster and it's doable but gets old. I can feel it dragging my pants down especially if I have to run to cross a street or chase my dog...
I'm committed to carrying pretty much 24/7 but not willing to dress up around a full-size 1911 24/7.

Have you ever tried a lightweight 5"?
I love mine, and wouldn't dare try an all steel gun, the difference is that big IMO.

For days when I go to the office, I don't mind strapping it on in the morning, on my Wilson belt, with a double mag pouch, which also helps balance the weight. I can carry it all day in comfort,

However, I'd like a BUG that can also serve as short errand and gym shorts type carry piece so I can carry 24/7.
I went looking for one this morning, but found a SWEET rifle. It's so sweet I can't even tell you guys about it, so maybe the BUG/ light carry will have to wait a bit.




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[Fletch]

Have you ever tried a lightweight 5"?
I love mine, and wouldn't dare try an all steel gun, the difference is that big IMO.

For days when I go to the office, I don't mind strapping it on in the morning, on my Wilson belt, with a double mag pouch, which also helps balance the weight. I can carry it all day in comfort,

However, I'd like a BUG that can also serve as short errand and gym shorts type carry piece so I can carry 24/7.
I went looking for one this morning, but found a SWEET rifle. It's so sweet I can't even tell you guys about it, so maybe the BUG/ light carry will have to wait a bit.




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No I haven't tried one as usually the cost is just more than I'm wiling to pay for a carry handgun. Especially seeing how it will be a crapshoot as to whether it's reliable or will need work to be so. I do have a bobtailed 4.25 inch commander style that is a little lighter at 35 ounces. Better but still gets to be a load after a while. It is also picky about mags. Loves Kimber mags for some reason and never had a failure. The Act Mag it came with and a couple of pro-mag's from academy cause failures to go into full battery with FMJ or JHP.

I paid $350 for an "el cheapo" Taurus that just goes bang bang bang everytime I pull the trigger regardless of what I feed it with no buffing, tuning, etc. It even takes Sig 226 mags with no problems. Grapefruit size accuracy versus golfball size accuracy at reasonable combat distances and I can live with that for the reliability, low cost, ease of carry, and round capacity. Don't get me wrong though because I much prefer the feel of shooting a finely tuned 1911 as it has no equal. Just not enough to pay over a grand not to mention the headaches of breaking-in for a carry gun.

 

[Fletch]

I definitely see your point. What's your NY reload piece? I'm looking for one, myself. Is it a small pocket type thing, or do you do something like this:

Gold cuff links that match your dual custom gold 1911's......Now that's how you carry with style!

Don't think I can pull off that look but if I ever become a Colombian drug runner I might have to give it a try.