This can't be real

[IronBeard]

All great points... thanks.

Not only are citizens hesitant to act, and rightfully so, we are seeing new cops doing the same. I have to approve all of my shift's Use of Force Reports... ANY TIME one of our people do ANY THING other than place cuffs on a WILLING person, we have to do a complete use of force investigation and document that on a completely different form/system. So if we physically force your arms behind your back, no matter how great or less of a degree... report time.

As a result, some cops hesitate as they don't want to "create extra work" I've discussed this with other cops in other places and they have the same issue... that's not safe for any one. When it's time to act, you need to act extra paper work be damned.

My agency is a great place to work, our leadership still holds old school values where we treat people the way they allow us to. Our Administration has also come to the conclusion that bad actors must be weeded out as if we don't police ourselves, there are other institutions that will step in and do so... we have seen this in the past.

As far as Constitutional Policing vs. contemporary LE, again, society as a whole is responsible for the shift in roles and responsibilities spanning back some fifty years. A lack of other non-LE service institutions has resulted in LE being the default for just about every problem a person encounters, examples include:

Spending hours and hours looking for lost dementia patients (nest to suicides and OD cases, this consumes a lot of time)

Spending hours and hours at a residence waiting on the funeral home after a natural or non-suspicious death

Wasting time responding to people on I-75 who were so stupid they ran out of gas

Wasting hours responding to parents complaining that they can't control their 10 y/o

Wasting hours on barking dog calls and other animal/wildlife related calls where there is no real danger or problem

Wasting hours responding to calls because someone simply drove through a neighborhood the person didn't know

Hours and hours wasted responding to civil disputes LE can't do anything about, such as child custody disagreements

Wasting time on landlord/tenant disputes LE can't do any thing about

Responding to drug overdose and suicide threats (this consumes at least 30% or more of a normal day at work)

Wasting time and resources providing escorts so people can retrieve property w/o conflict (post divorce or break up)

Responding to people locked out of their car or house

Responding for welfare checks because the neighbor thinks a newspaper in the driveway means you're dead

One estranged parent wanting welfare checks on their kids as a way to harass/inconvenience the other half

An insane amount hours wasted on DCF calls that are bogus yet the state won't prosecute for false reporting

I could go on and on, but I think readers get the point. With all the "white noise" LEO's have to perform and deal with, there is little time for proactive quality police patrol activities that actually help prevent your house or car from being burglarized.

I blame LE leaders of years past for allowing this encroachment of non-LE related services into the career field. PUBLIC SERVANT now days means call the cops for any problem you might have... including getting the lid off a stuck jar...lol.

Sorry for the long rant... but gone forever are the days of cops doing just cop stuff.

ETA- I know this sounds like be just bitching... I guess I am. I'm worn down, I'm tired, I want out. I can't wait to retire, but until I do, I will continue to provide the best leadership I can to the new kids in hopes they will do the right thing(s).

Had to take some time to process all of this. I certainly agree y'all should not be society's baby sitter or referee. Unfortunately, here we are.

I know a guy down in Jupiter in circumstances similar to yours. No one will take care of you like you, so you make sure to take care of you. Doesn't mean you have to ignore/neglect others. Pick a point between you and where you wanna be and go there. Repeat as necessary. Don't stay static. That just sucks more.

 

[bowona13]

There was a time I'd 100% disagree but now days the quality of officer is in fact on the downslide. We recently fired two, one was on my shift.

It's the other way around...THE CITIZENS HAVE BROUGHT THIS UPON THEMSELVES. Why? Glad you asked.

Over the past ten plus years we've seen LE attacked nationwide, in mass, in organized fashion, led by powerful community leaders and politicians. BLM and other organizations calling for defunding the police, affirmative action hiring practices, reduced/elimination of bail, reduced sentences, liberal insane discretionary prosecution policies, witch-hunt style attacks and prosecutions of officers who did in fact use justifiable force, Clinton proclaiming LE is a "systematically racist institution", yada, yada, yada.

All this time... where in the F was the common man offering push back? Where were the level-headed politicians putting a stop to restrictive/bad policies? Where were the appreciative community leaders supporting their local LE? Crickets for the most part where it mattered most.

The result for those of us in LE ... eroding attitudes as the system just keeps releasing criminals, fear of improper prosecution because visuals (The Wendy's incident in Atlanta, Michael Brown incident, George Floyd incident), lack of confidence in the rest of the CJ system, dwindling numbers due to good people leaving (opens the door for substandard people), lower and lower hiring standards (behaviors that were once disqualifying are now allowed), tolerance for substandard performance in order to keep employees (allowing retraining vs. termination, allowing resignations that carry no consequences vs. IA and termination resulting in bad cops just going to another agency), just an overall downhill slide in quality people, leadership, mentoring, and quality of service to the public.

Make no mistake about what I'm saying... there are LEO's out there who give ample reason for people to dislike and not trust the police. With social media and body cams almost all the bad stuff is captured and shared almost immediately.

I think if our society didn't have such a thirst for drama of the bad kind, one could counter 10:1 great body cam/cell cam footage of cops doing outstanding things... but that's not as attractive and doesn't captivate society's attention as much as a bad cop violating someone's rights.

I guess the point of my post is:

1. You're partially right... but I don't think 65% of cops are bad.
2. The LE community as a whole, as well as society, have equally contributed to the current state of affairs.
3. Bad publicity sells 10X more than a good; there will ALWAYS be cops who perform poorly so it skewers perception.
4. Society as a whole hasn't stood up for the good cops out there as much as the other side has to destroy LE .

OK... I've spoke my mind...

ETA- Just an example to consider... thousands of dangerous mentally ill people are successfully taken into custody for medical/mental treatment every day in the US, at great risk to officers who assume said risk and manage it well, where are those stories?

I Agree, did it for 34 years. When we lowered our standards mainly because of Democrat polices and told everyone you can be the Police, this is what you get! There are people who think they can do the job and people who are born to do the job.
Nuff Said! JMTCW

 

[lil'skeet]

View attachment 271585

Minus 10 points if you completely f#ck up a mag change.

 

[DAS HUGH!]

I haven't been following this since it came out. Is he now seriously free to go and getting 0 charges based on him finally quiting weeks after it happened?
I seriously wonder what kinda charges a civilian would get slammed with if the roles was reversed somehow.
I'm not trying to sound like I'm anti cop either. I'm actually 100% pro police. But.. this case... oh man!

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

I haven't been following this since it came out. Is he now seriously free to go and getting 0 charges based on him finally quiting weeks after it happened?
I seriously wonder what kinda charges a civilian would get slammed with if the roles was reversed somehow.
I'm not trying to sound like I'm anti cop either. I'm actually 100% pro police. But.. this case... oh man!

Culpable Negligence is all you're going to get for discharging a firearm like that in public, however, self defense could easily be an affirmative defense.

Whether or not the officer was legitimate in his fears, based on the totality of the call, is debatable... the mag dump however isn't as there obviously wasn't any target ID.

No sense is wasting more tax payers funds on the incident... tax payers paid enough already.

 

[DAS HUGH!]

Culpable Negligence is all you're going to get for discharging a firearm like that in public, however, self defense could easily be an affirmative defense.

Whether or not the officer was legitimate in his fears, based on the totality of the call, is debatable... the mag dump however isn't as there obviously wasn't any target ID.

No sense is wasting more tax payers funds on the incident... tax payers paid enough already.

Well. I think the department itself ruled that he was in fact not legitimate in his fears.
The whole case hinges on the cop being so afraid by how dangerous this perp is. After all they're there responding to him beating her, stealing her car, threatening to kill her and others, sending threatening photos of him with illegal evil scary guns... all that jazz.
Well... they let him go with 0 charges too lol.
So evidently, he isn't a threat.
Poor girl better pray that idiot don't come back and kill her in the middle of the night.
Well.. unless he's too busy spending his new found millions that is. He can just buy his own cars now I suppose lol
What a clusterf$%^

 

[lil'skeet]

I Agree, did it for 34 years. When we lowered our standards mainly because of Democrat polices and told everyone you can be the Police, this is what you get! There are people who think they can do the job and people who are born to do the job.
Nuff Said! JMTCW

I haven't been following this since it came out. Is he now seriously free to go and getting 0 charges based on him finally quiting weeks after it happened?
I seriously wonder what kinda charges a civilian would get slammed with if the roles was reversed somehow.
I'm not trying to sound like I'm anti cop either. I'm actually 100% pro police. But.. this case... oh man!

If that's true.... What a country. Florida should be ashamed. ESPECIALLY NW FLORIDA!

 

[DAS HUGH!]

If that's true.... What a country. Florida should be ashamed. ESPECIALLY NW FLORIDA!

I'm sure they are embarrassed. I guess they figured just making it go away was the best choice because they was ashamed.
I mean "I get it."
But... I just don't think sweeping it under the rug isn't a good look is all and adds even more shame.
Especially when plebs get ran thru the wringer daily for being forced to use legal legit lethal force daily now it seems.
It just don't send the right message.
But yeah I was just wondering if I missed something. Seems crazy that this can happen with 0 charges is all.
So I guess that's it!?

Again tho... I'm not a anti cop guy. In fact I like all the cops around me alot. They seem great. This case just blows me away tho

 

[FNHman]

He 100% believed he was hit too. What the F@&$

Maybe they should start doing red ryder or paint ball shooting at each other so they can "feel" a hit to simulate that feeling, you know like they do with taser and pepper spray.

 

[sloporsche]

No one knows how they will re-act under real or a false threat situation ...the flip side he didn't freeze up ,he sought cover and returned [falsely] fire . I might ride with him in a M113 but not in a crown vic imho

 

[FNHman]

There was a time I'd 100% disagree but now days the quality of officer is in fact on the downslide. We recently fired two, one was on my shift.

It's the other way around...THE CITIZENS HAVE BROUGHT THIS UPON THEMSELVES. Why? Glad you asked.

Over the past ten plus years we've seen LE attacked nationwide, in mass, in organized fashion, led by powerful community leaders and politicians. BLM and other organizations calling for defunding the police, affirmative action hiring practices, reduced/elimination of bail, reduced sentences, liberal insane discretionary prosecution policies, witch-hunt style attacks and prosecutions of officers who did in fact use justifiable force, Clinton proclaiming LE is a "systematically racist institution", yada, yada, yada.

I understand what your saying and agree some what.

I also think that if the departments would clean themselves instead of hiding behinnd a bunch of BS statements and with holding body cams etc the public would be more supportive and you wouldn't here about the above BLM, political side etc. I have never understood why anybody thinks its ok for the higher ups to stick up for their staff when they make unrecoverable mistakes. The system is overloaded and justice should be more swift like in 2-3 months not years so the public knows that problems are being taking care quickly and certain behavior is not tolerated and leads straight to fired not a paper trail of fake corrected action.

Remove the ability of police to cut audio from the cams, put speed limiters of their cars that dont allow 100 plus mph through red lights that results in instant death to the public.

I witnessed 2 different cops in SUV's responding to a call by T&W flee market the other month blow a red light at about 70mph in a 45 while little kids and adults were walking down the side of the roads everywhere and the cops didnt even have their lights on, never slowed down, nothing. There was already 5-6 cars on scene 6 blocks away and one suspect was in cuffs that I could see as I past.... I reported this to the station immediately and I 100% bet there isn't even a report about it. I wish you had enough connection to find out if they ever discussed my complaint in any meetings with those officers. They wanted the car numbers during my phone call but I couldn't see them at those speeds, I was driving 45 and their 70 makes it like 115 which is a blur for seeing those numbers on the cars. Why cant the PD look at the cars GPS history to find out who was driving like a nut? Do they even have GPS history? Should I have turned around gone back to the scene and start filming the police car numbers????? They would have beat me, cuffed me, and made up a bunch of charges to punish me. Im over all this crap. My biggest concern is that they keep letting these criminals out of jail and that only equals one thing, its only going to get worst.

How do I continue to be a productive member of this failing society whiling keep my eyes closed and finger off the trigger?

OK rant over.

 

[sloporsche]

I understand what your saying and agree some what.

I also think that if the departments would clean themselves instead of hiding behinnd a bunch of BS statements and with holding body cams etc the public would be more supportive and you wouldn't here about the above BLM, political side etc. I have never understood why anybody thinks its ok for the higher ups to stick up for their staff when they make unrecoverable mistakes. The system is overloaded and justice should be more swift like in 2-3 months not years so the public knows that problems are being taking care quickly and certain behavior is not tolerated and leads straight to fired not a paper trail of fake corrected action.

Remove the ability of police to cut audio from the cams, put speed limiters of their cars that dont allow 100 plus mph through red lights that results in instant death to the public.

I witnessed 2 different cops in SUV's responding to a call by T&W flee market the other month blow a red light at about 70mph in a 45 while little kids and adults were walking down the side of the roads everywhere and the cops didnt even have their lights on, never slowed down, nothing. There was already 5-6 cars on scene 6 blocks away and one suspect was in cuffs that I could see as I past.... I reported this to the station immediately and I 100% bet there isn't even a report about it. I wish you had enough connection to find out if they ever discussed my complaint in any meetings with those officers. They wanted the car numbers during my phone call but I couldn't see them at those speeds, I was driving 45 and their 70 makes it like 115 which is a blur for seeing those numbers on the cars. Why cant the PD look at the cars GPS history to find out who was driving like a nut? Do they even have GPS history? Should I have turned around gone back to the scene and start filming the police car numbers????? They would have beat me, cuffed me, and made up a bunch of charges to punish me. Im over all this crap. My biggest concern is that they keep letting these criminals out of jail and that only equals one thing, its only going to get worst.

How do I continue to be a productive member of this failing society whiling keep my eyes closed and finger off the trigger?

OK rant over.

beat you ,cuff you and made up a bunch of charges ? dude serious ....and just who are you holding back on using the trigger on

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

I understand what your saying and agree some what.

I also think that if the departments would clean themselves instead of hiding behinnd a bunch of BS statements and with holding body cams etc the public would be more supportive and you wouldn't here about the above BLM, political side etc. I have never understood why anybody thinks its ok for the higher ups to stick up for their staff when they make unrecoverable mistakes. The system is overloaded and justice should be more swift like in 2-3 months not years so the public knows that problems are being taking care quickly and certain behavior is not tolerated and leads straight to fired not a paper trail of fake corrected action.

Remove the ability of police to cut audio from the cams, put speed limiters of their cars that dont allow 100 plus mph through red lights that results in instant death to the public.

I witnessed 2 different cops in SUV's responding to a call by T&W flee market the other month blow a red light at about 70mph in a 45 while little kids and adults were walking down the side of the roads everywhere and the cops didnt even have their lights on, never slowed down, nothing. There was already 5-6 cars on scene 6 blocks away and one suspect was in cuffs that I could see as I past.... I reported this to the station immediately and I 100% bet there isn't even a report about it. I wish you had enough connection to find out if they ever discussed my complaint in any meetings with those officers. They wanted the car numbers during my phone call but I couldn't see them at those speeds, I was driving 45 and their 70 makes it like 115 which is a blur for seeing those numbers on the cars. Why cant the PD look at the cars GPS history to find out who was driving like a nut? Do they even have GPS history? Should I have turned around gone back to the scene and start filming the police car numbers????? They would have beat me, cuffed me, and made up a bunch of charges to punish me. Im over all this crap. My biggest concern is that they keep letting these criminals out of jail and that only equals one thing, its only going to get worst.

How do I continue to be a productive member of this failing society whiling keep my eyes closed and finger off the trigger?

OK rant over.

Good rant... can't argue with the points you made.

If you want a complaint to be on record with the ability to follow up, do it in writing, in person, at the department.

Excessive speed by cops has always been a problem, we discipline our folks who do so w/o justification. Our old system allowed me to see car speeds of everyone on duty, our new system does not but the speeds are recorded.

Now days, just about all cars are GPS'ed, especially those in the Patrol Division.

Agencies do police their ranks way more than most people believe. You can see this in the annual reports kept by state officials, such as FDLE, reference officer misconduct. If you note the original source of the complaint/investigation, they come from within.

Body cam footage and reports are all public record but are subject to various holds or redactions based on a variety of legal reasons, not just attempts to cover up bad things.

I no longer jump to defend LE because there are still A LOT of numbnuts that that just stomp on their privates... and there are still agencies out there with no/poor mentoring and leadership. YouTube is chalked FULL of examples of poor police performance as well as, like you said, agencies that try to minimize the situation.

Like I said... I'm tired and can't wait to be out of the game.

 

[FNHman]

beat you ,cuff you and made up a bunch of charges ? dude serious ....and just who are you holding back on using the trigger on

Re read my post, I stated "How do I continue to be a productive member of this failing society whiling keep my eyes closed and finger off the trigger?" I'll re write this for you so maybe this will help. How does any modern day American like me, you, your neighbor, continue to keep just pretending that the system is working "its been failing since the 80's war on drugs if your old enough to remember" without ending up in a FORCED life or death situation because either too many violent criminals have been let back out into our streets or even a FORCED life or death situation because some cops wants to sneak up on my property while Im in my own driveway while Im trying to find something in my own car after dark and take 17 shots for NO REASON "this happened here local, thank GOD they missed". I will defend myself from criminals and the police. Didn't you see the apartment video going around where the lady cops shot the home owner because she came to her own door with a gun? I dont care who is shooting at me or why, I will return fire until Im dead.

Anyway, I ask you this....

Lets go talk to a lawyer and have you sign a contract that states you will cover all my expenses for the rest of my life relating to any harm during any engagement from the police with me while I film there car numbers to report any unlawful maneuvers they might have committed during their drive/response while on way to a scene. I will sign that I will only film from a public place at 50ft distance not to disturb their scene in any way while they are working. If I get approached by police for questions I will answer with truthful responses of why I'm taking down their info for a complaint report and then we will see what happens on YOUR DIME. I do carry and I will be carring anytime Im in public.

This offer stands for anyone reading this post.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

Re read my post, I stated "How do I continue to be a productive member of this failing society whiling keep my eyes closed and finger off the trigger?" I'll re write this for you so maybe this will help. How does any modern day American like me, you, your neighbor, continue to keep just pretending that the system is working "its been failing since the 80's war on drugs if your old enough to remember" without ending up in a FORCED life or death situation because either too many violent criminals have been let back out into our streets or even a FORCED life or death situation because some cops wants to sneak up on my property while Im in my own driveway while Im trying to find something in my own car after dark and take 17 shots for NO REASON "this happened here local, thank GOD they missed". I will defend myself from criminals and the police. Didn't you see the apartment video going around where the lady cops shot the home owner because she came to her own door with a gun? I dont care who is shooting at me or why, I will return fire until Im dead.

Anyway, I ask you this....

Lets go talk to a lawyer and have you sign a contract that states you will cover all my expenses for the rest of my life relating to any harm during any engagement from the police with me while I film there car numbers to report any unlawful maneuvers they might have committed during their drive/response while on way to a scene. I will sign that I will only film from a public place at 50ft distance not to disturb their scene in any way while they are working. If I get approached by police for questions I will answer with truthful responses of why I'm taking down their info for a complaint report and then we will see what happens on YOUR DIME. I do carry and I will be carring anytime Im in public.

This offer stands for anyone reading this post.

Don't let all this erode your quality of life.

There's still plenty of good out there...

 

[FNHman]

Now days, just about all cars are GPS'ed, especially those in the Patrol Division.

Agencies do police their ranks way more than most people believe. You can see this in the annual reports

Body cam footage and reports are all public record but are subject to various holds or redactions based on a variety of legal reasons, not just attempts to cover up bad things.

Im glad to hear that most all cars might have GPS, thats a great start.

 

[lil'skeet]

I'm sure they are embarrassed. I guess they figured just making it go away was the best choice because they was ashamed.
I mean "I get it."
But... I just don't think sweeping it under the rug isn't a good look is all and adds even more shame.
Especially when plebs get ran thru the wringer daily for being forced to use legal legit lethal force daily now it seems.
It just don't send the right message.
But yeah I was just wondering if I missed something. Seems crazy that this can happen with 0 charges is all.
So I guess that's it!?

Again tho... I'm not a anti cop guy. In fact I like all the cops around me alot. They seem great. This case just blows me away tho

Don't let all this erode your quality of life.

There's still plenty of good out there...

I'm hoping the good is not heard because it does bring the ratings and promote agendas.
My gut is telling me society is just getting sh!tier though.

 

[lil'skeet]

Re read my post, I stated "How do I continue to be a productive member of this failing society whiling keep my eyes closed and finger off the trigger?" I'll re write this for you so maybe this will help. How does any modern day American like me, you, your neighbor, continue to keep just pretending that the system is working "its been failing since the 80's war on drugs if your old enough to remember" without ending up in a FORCED life or death situation because either too many violent criminals have been let back out into our streets or even a FORCED life or death situation because some cops wants to sneak up on my property while Im in my own driveway while Im trying to find something in my own car after dark and take 17 shots for NO REASON "this happened here local, thank GOD they missed". I will defend myself from criminals and the police. Didn't you see the apartment video going around where the lady cops shot the home owner because she came to her own door with a gun? I dont care who is shooting at me or why, I will return fire until Im dead.

Anyway, I ask you this....

Lets go talk to a lawyer and have you sign a contract that states you will cover all my expenses for the rest of my life relating to any harm during any engagement from the police with me while I film there car numbers to report any unlawful maneuvers they might have committed during their drive/response while on way to a scene. I will sign that I will only film from a public place at 50ft distance not to disturb their scene in any way while they are working. If I get approached by police for questions I will answer with truthful responses of why I'm taking down their info for a complaint report and then we will see what happens on YOUR DIME. I do carry and I will be carring anytime Im in public.

This offer stands for anyone reading this post.

America has been in decline on purpose since the 60's, with the promotion of drugs, certain types of music, EPA regulations, and women's "equality" (destruction of the family).

 

[NoSlack2327]

They have brought on their own trouble from their own actions. Nothing you stated justifies over reacting. You can't keep pissing on people's liberty and expect respect. Everybody knows of at least one person who has been framed, beat, mistreated by law enforcement. My personal dealings put in about a 35% of them have been professional and the rest can go F themselves

They have brought on their own trouble from their own actions. Nothing you stated justifies over reacting. You can't keep pissing on people's liberty and expect respect. Everybody knows of at least one person who has been framed, beat, mistreated by law enforcement. My personal dealings put in about a 35% of them have been professional and the rest can go F themselves.

I just want the same charges a civilian would’ve gotten if they did the same thing. Losing your job is not even the beginning.