NFA Trust

[collectorden]

I'm trying to decide if I should set up an NFA trust and, if I do, whether to use software or a lawyer.
I see the advantage of a trust set up by a lawyer, but the cost seems a little high.
Anyone have opinions on this, or know a local Fl lawyer who does these trusts?

 

[flyandscuba]

I recall hearing of some probelms with the do-it-yourself trusts. I'd use an attorney if going that route. I decided to go the individual route for my NFA items. I can see the advantages of doing the trust, I just didn't want to spend the extra money the first time...now it is too late without having to buy 5 tax stamps again.

 

[rob883]

it really depends on what your needs are.I would figure that out first then your path will be clear as to which direction to go

 

[MIAMI MATT]

it really depends on what your needs are.I would figure that out first then your path will be clear as to which direction to go

Please elaborate,I have wondered this myself,what are the pros/cons of each method?

 

[glockandar15]

I looked at doing a trust so that my wife or I have avilabilty to the weapons. But after learning how much a real trust cost and the horror stories of the do it yourself trust I decided to do them as an individual. You only have to get the chief law enforcement office to sign off.

 

[collectorden]

From what I've gathered, it isn't just the access. If you go the individual route and something happens to you (I'm not that young), my understanding is that the estate is supposed to turn the NFA items over to local law authorities, but with a trust, the trust can sell or retain the items. Probably not a prob if it's just a worn out can or two.

 

[Gravity3694]

I only recommend the trust route when the CLEO denies you, you want flexibility in who can control the NFA items or you hate dealing with the fingerprint and photos needed for the individual route.

The ATF only cares if your trust is a functioning legal trust. It doesn't matter how its constructed or worded, it just has to be a trust. I used Quicken software and modified it to my needs. I will be fair and say that they had some things out of the box that were invalid in FL (I took a legal class or two during undergrad, including one on probate law). I executed the trust and it past muster with two NFA items so far. Just do your research on what a trust is and how it works, and you'll be fine with a DIY trust. Also, don't buy into the "guntrust" scheme, any trust will do.

Also, Form 5 (death of individual or trust grantor) allows for the executor of the estate to hold the NFA item during the administration of the estate. Its a seemless transfer without any local LEO involvement. All it takes is a Form 5 and sending estate documents (will or trust) to the ATF.

 

[ilintner]

I went the quicken trust route, 7 stamps, no issues. The problems that I saw people having we're related to trustees being underage or otherwise unable to own the NFA items.

 

[Ben Ghazi]

have a terminal condition now that even my wife does not know about so I am quietly selling my things

 

[collectorden]

have a terminal condition now that even my wife does not know about so I am quietly selling my things

So sorry to hear your situation, but it does reinforce my decision that trust is the way to go.

 

[Bean Counter]

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/ Here is a site that may be of interest.

 

[MIAMI MATT]

He supposively is the best but does not come cheap.I heard his firm takes care of everything for $550.00,and his process is the industry standard that all other firms use. I think there is a documentry somewhere on the net about him iirc.

 

[Gravity3694]

There's many people who don't like guntrustlawyer. Many claim he overdramatizes the need for a "gun trust" when in fact all you need is a trust, any trust.

 

[collectorden]

Here's his prices:

Here are some of the more significant differences in the trusts
Base, Advanced , Professional
Price: $349, $600, $2499

Copyrighted Gun Trust: Yes, Yes, Yes
Customized by Lawyers for you: No, Yes, Yes
Prepared by You: Yes, No, No
Special Gun Powers in the Trust: Yes, Yes, Yes
Special Veto Powers: No, No, Yes
Designed for Asset Protection: No, No, No
Designed for Many Generations: No, No, Yes
Authorized Users (included): 4, Unlimited, Unlimited
Multiple Owners: No, Yes, N/A
Multiple Trustee Levels: No, No, Yes
Good for all Firearms: Yes, Yes, Yes
Upgradable To Professional: Yes, Yes, N/A
Add/Remove More Trustees Form: $79, $79, Included
Form to change States: N/A, $79, Included
Form to allow for self Expiring Trustee: N/A, $499, Included

 

[Little Jack]

I can't vouch for this guy but just wanted to throw it out there for informational purposes. Found it on another forum I frequent.

http://mynfatrust.net/

and the link where I found it.

http://xcrforum.com/index.php/topic,13611.msg186760.html#msg186760

 

[Gravity3694]

I can't vouch for this guy but just wanted to throw it out there for informational purposes. Found it on another forum I frequent.

http://mynfatrust.net/

and the link where I found it.

http://xcrforum.com/index.php/topic,13611.msg186760.html#msg186760

I wouldn't trust this trust, it comes with no lawyer to walk you through it and based upon the website I suspect the person selling these isn't a lawyer. Keep in mind practicing law (ie selling trusts or providing legal services to others is practicing law) without a license is a felony. Furthermore, there is no mention of FL trust laws which mean that this may not account for the unique requirements of FL trust law (FL is a Uniform Probate Code state). If your going to pay $100+ for a trust an attorney should walk you through it and explain the intricacies of trust law. My perception is that this trust is nothing more than a $15 Quicken trust, with some superfluous language added and maybe a specific guide for NFA.

Here's some notable attorneys FL probate attorneys that specialize in NFA I've copied from an ARFCOM thread

David Goldman
http://www.guntrust.com/
Trust filled out online via automated form for $350 (I've heard $600 from others).

David Goldman continued - Jacksonville
http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/
Page with contact info for trust filled out with interaction from attorney

Kevin C. Maxwell and Associates - Orlando
http://www.maxlaworlando.com/

Wood Atter and Wolf PA - Jacksonville / Ponte Vedra Beach
http://www.woodatter.com/lawyer-attorney-1743142.html

Brent Gordon - Oldsmar
http://www.thegordonfirm.com/practiceareas/
According to web posts he creates trusts for $199.

Davis Basta Law firm - Palm Harbor
http://www.davisbastalaw.com/gun_trusts.php
Website states trusts made for $395 unless additional services are needed.

Shon Douctre - Orlando
http://www.class3classifieds.com/gun-trust-attorney/
Website states a charge of $250 to $375.

J. Patrick Buckley III - Ft Myers/Naples area
http://www.buckleyesq.com/

Bob J Howell
8551 W Sunrise Blvd # 207 Plantation, FL 33322
(954) 424-8889

David Koberlein
61 Seminola Blvd., Casselberry, Florida, 32707
(407) 810-7270
dmkdavid@yahoo.com
http://www.florida-nfatrusts.com/

Of special mention is Bob Howell, who discovered that trusts could be used for NFA back in the late 90s. Thanks to him and his tireless research/litigation we are able to use the trust route.

 

[MIAMI MATT]

how much is the typical trust gonna set you back,and how much is it to be modified (if needed) to incorperate another weopon onm a form 4?

 

[Gravity3694]

Depends, $15 for a Quicken and then around $200 plus for one made by a attorney. It really depends on what your doing with the trust and the complexities of the items in the trust. Keep in mind a "NFA trust" isn't needed, only a trust. Any trust that is going to be used only for NFA purposes is going to be pretty basic compared to trusts used to settle entire estates.

Adding a new NFA item to a trust is as easy as amending the Schedule A, which lists all of the trust's assets. Amending is as easy as opening your Word processor.

If I ever have the time I may make a trust FAQ to help out people who are new to NFA and trusts.

 

[collectorden]

The guy at mynfatrust.net says he's not a lawyer (so does legal zoom and their work is widely accecpted), but he uses the same legal software that lawyers do.
People who have his trust say they are great.
David Goldman's $350 trust does NOT come with a walk through or any legal advice. You have to buy the $600 or $2499 trust for that.
It is also just a fill in the blanks trust.

 

[reel_crazy]

seems like something nra could help with.. if they were not so busy sending me made in china ball caps..
rich