NFA questions

[MIAMI MATT]

I must admit that I am completely new to the NFA stuff,just tring to understand so bare w/ me:

1)Can someone explain the bennifts of a sbr over a pistol in the same cal. that will be only (give or take a few) 200fps diffrence in the round and only a couple inch barrel diffrence? What justifys the $200.00 stamp? It cant be a foregrip alone...Seems like a waste,if it is the foregrip,buy the magpul,it is concidered legal on pistols..so why pay 200.00?

2)Is it true that under the nfa you can build and own a NFA weopon as long as it is for your personall collection and not be transferred via form 4?

3) If the answer to question #2 is yes must you register it with the atf or make local LE aware...
3a.-Then can you make a silencer as well and if so can you attach it to said weopon above?

Obvously everyone would be doing this if seriously legal,I just see alot of class 3 dealers on the net adimit it is within the law for these things to be produced..I know jack about it and was wanting to hear from you guys in the know where it really stands.

Before someone even asks,no there is no way I would produce one.(or I would not post on a site that I'm sure the ATF has seen once or twice) I dont care if the stamp is 500.00. First I dont want to blow myself up,and second jail would not be cool either,then the fine,oh yea no more guns for you ever!

 

[Little Jack]

The SBR paperwork lets you put a stock on your 'pistol' so that you can shoot more comfortably and accurately. The shorter barrel in the rifle config is only better in that it is shorter and therefore easier to handle/conceal(if you're into that). SBRs look cool. The worth of the stamp is up to the individual.

2 is false. If you build it, it needs to be registered. Nothing is stopping you from building but good luck if you get caught. It is legal to 'build' your own but you still have to use a Form 1 and wait for the stamp.

I'm not a lawyer/expert on this stuff, this is just my understanding.

I'm sure Gravity will be along to set everyone straight.

 

[MIAMI MATT]

So Nate,I assume you apply for the form 1 prior to the build? Do they actually even give these stamps out to individuals or is it a stamp that is "obtainable"but never issued for whatever reason?

 

[Gravity3694]

So Nate,I assume you apply for the form 1 prior to the build? Do they actually even give these stamps out to individuals or is it a stamp that is "obtainable"but never issued for whatever reason?

The stamp is proof of tax paid. Legally, merely must pay the tax, going through their background check (the background is the same as a regular purchase but with fingerprints and a photo for an individual) and the paperwork is just part of that. Once you've paid the tax then you may build it. Also don't forget there are engraving requirements for a form 1.

 

[MIAMI MATT]

I am going to look into the bennifits and disadvantages of a trust as well I have a brief understandinng butwant to know everything about it prior to taking the plunge so to speak.Nate had some cool stuff at the show.it really has me intrested.I spoke with few buddies but anm not so sure of their undetstanding either...

 

[Little Jack]

Trust is more work initially to get it setup but gives you more flexibility down the line if you want other people to have access to it.

Individual is straight forward but needs photos, fingerprints, compliance cert(single form, no big deal) and Chief Law Enforcement signature sign off to go up.

 

[ilintner]

I am not sure that there are any disadvantages to a legal entity owning NFA items, rather than going the individual route.

 

[wildrider666]

Answers;
1. The shoulder stock. And since it is a short barreled (SBR) rifle there is no separate restriction on a vertical fore-grip on a SBR as there is on a handgun. I have only seen reference to the MAGPUL "Angled fore-grip" being approved on handguns by ATF. Adding a vertical fore-grip makes the "entire weapon" a NFA: Any Other Weapon. You have to engrave the receiver. as apposed to a silencer that is engraved and serialized and may be switched between weapons.

2. You must register and receive the Stamp PRIOR to building a weapon that fits NFA (and ATF interpretation). There are additional specific restrictions on machine-guns and Sears. Only existing (AR-15 prior to 1981) and registered sears may be used unless the weapon is for LE, Military, or approved export. You may not build and register a "new" auto or burst Sear.

3. Same requirement with a suppressor. A "removable" suppressor would require a full separate NFA registration. If it is permanently welded to or an integral part of a SBR or AOW and identified in the original request: one weapon: one stamp. If you put a vertical fore grip and a removable suppressor on a handgun you need two stamps.

4. Another restriction on NFA weapons is transportation from one State to another. You must make appropriate notifications BEFORE you move a NFA weapon into or through another State. Ever read the case of the Captain of a private yacht who sailed up the east coast and got arrested in the middle of the Hudson River? He had a 1911 locked in the ships safe (no ammo on board). Tagged with unregistered handgun within NYC limits. "In transit" protections did not apply as he left from and had intent to return to the same state!!!

WR

 

[Gravity3694]

I am not sure that there are any disadvantages to a legal entity owning NFA items, rather than going the individual route.

The biggest disadvantage comes in the homework understanding how trusts work and what makes one valid in your state. Once you get the trust up and running there is little that has to be done other than updating some paperwork when a new toy comes in. Also, of minor note you technically don't own any NFA firearms if you use a trust.

Corporate route is an interesting one, but the yearly upkeep is often too much for most people. One desirable thing about corporate is that if you sell an NFA item, you can just sell the corporation and the item can be instantly handed off to the seller since he now owns the corporation which owns the NFA item.

 

[RIPpff]

Will our local "chief of police" actually sign off for any law abiding average joe? or would you have to be in the them, aka a Leo or similar

 

[Little Jack]

Wendell Hall signed off with no problems. Can't speak for Escambia or otherwise.

 

[Gravity3694]

Will our local "chief of police" actually sign off for any law abiding average joe? or would you have to be in the them, aka a Leo or similar

Sheriff David Morgan of Escambia will sign off as well. He does an internal background check before a sign off, but he's definitely pro 2nd A and NFA.

I personally don't like the CLEO requirement and think its redundant for its original purpose in the 21st century and its open to abuse from CLEOs who don't understand its purpose. There were rumors that the CLEO requirement was going to be deleted several years ago, but the federal government moves very very slowly.

 

[MIAMI MATT]

Here is another one fellas(and by the way thanks for helping me understand) With a trust I read that if you register it through a buisness established as a llc (who;s officers controll the trust) and the buisness fails or is disolved/sold that the weopon can not be leftt nor transfered to the origional"owner",but with just a ficticios name (dba) you can still be in controll of the weopon,but you need to transfer it to yourself as previously it was affixed to a buisness entity as well...This is where shit gets fuzzy for me as there is conflicting answers all over the net..

 

[RIPpff]

Thats the only thing is, registering a biz/ect. you have to keep that up every year $$$

 

[MIAMI MATT]

Well as long as the entity does not change hands or disolve by death or bankruptsy you are good to go,I HAVE HEARD OF BUISNESSES OBTAINING THEM IN A TRUST TO "ENTERTAIN "potential clients and vendors so they can be written off as a biz. expence come tax time...

 

[wildrider666]

Establish a LLC. Also put your vehicles in the LLC and insure them that way. This will limit the liability to your personal assets if you get sued for an auto accident.
WR

 

[Gravity3694]

The corporate route doesn't use a trust, it just registers the NFA items in the corporation's name. The people that can control the NFA item in corporate is designated company officers. I don't know much about the corporate route and of the three routes its the least used. If the corporation dissolves, then you must transfer the item to someone, which will incur another $200.

 

[RIPpff]

The idea of having to renew LLC and keep up with it just makes alot of work to have a supressor, if one were to go it as an induvidual and morgan signs off on it, would that work

The thought of having to start an LLC and maintain it just to own a supressor is pretty daunting, having to keep up with it yearly, it would be worth it if one had alot of assets and plans to get a bunch of NFA stuff, but for the average joe who wants to plink in their backyard with a duece duece can, is it worth it?

 

[ilintner]

The idea of having to renew LLC and keep up with it just makes alot of work to have a supressor, if one were to go it as an induvidual and morgan signs off on it, would that work

The thought of having to start an LLC and maintain it just to own a supressor is pretty daunting, having to keep up with it yearly, it would be worth it if one had alot of assets and plans to get a bunch of NFA stuff, but for the average joe who wants to plink in their backyard with a duece duece can, is it worth it?

The trust route, or individual route would be much easier if you are talking about one NFA item. But be warned, they are addictive .

 

[MIAMI MATT]

Say I went the personal route with two class3 weopons and decided I was wanting to get more and wanted to take the trust route as there are way less hoops to jump in aquiring them.The origional two I personally own would then need to be transfered on a form 4 for 200.00 ea. to the trust correct?Or is it ok to be in possession as an individual and an officer?