New to AR -15 question Why doesn't Bushmaster get much respect?

[camuchi]

Hey guys new to the AR world here and picked up a M4 Bushmaster at Wallyworld back in March. Wasn't really considering an AR purchase at the time but was hunting ammo for the pistol and 22lr and it was in the case and I knew they were hard to find- Anyway - it left with me.
Seems that the Bushmaster does not garner much respect in the AR world, i know the bcg is supposed to be marginal but what else is it???
listed it once for the $$ i have in it and got zero response, no problem it makes a nice safe buddy to the colt )

I also picked up a colt le-6920 during that period and they appear to have very similar quality beside the BCG difference (and the Colt 100% test marks)

comments, opinions etc welcome

 

[FrankT]

Well since BM was sold I consider them about the same as a DPMS or other low to mid grade gun...just not the quality they used to be. Build your own and get better parts and get it the way you want it, cheaper too.

 

[Khaot1c]

Aside from the BCG, there are things which some folks may shy away from simply because they aren't what they 'want' in their AR platform. Such as, the Bushmaster I have experience with was fitted with a commercial buffer tube. Not really a limiting factor because most 3rd party manufacturers (like Magpul) will produce equipment that can fit both MilSpec and Commercial. However, the name MilSpec does promote that feeling of a 'genuine article'.

The barrel twist was my number 1 limiting factor in buying a Bushmaster. Granted, a lot of AR platforms out there are built with a barrel with a 1:9 twist rate. To that end, there are a lot that aren't either. Will it matter much? Probably not for a very casual shooter.

In the end, I decided against a Bushmaster because of its higher price and 1:9 twist.

 

[Patoz]

Bushmaster is part of the Freedom Group and was purchased by Cerberus Capital Management, L.P in 2006. Four days after the Sandy Hook shooting, Cerberus put Bushmaster up for sale. Bushmaster rifles are now manufactured by Remington in New York. I have several and have had 'zero' problems with them, but mine are older models, and I don't put 10,000 rounds a year downrange either. The older Bushmaster's were very good quality and their customer service was excellent. Since it was sold, both have gone down the tubes.

Here is an example of what their customer service is like now: Back in December 2012, I purchased a barrel for one I was building. It arrived with a crack in the barrel extension, so I called to arrange a refund. At first they didn't even want to pay for the return postage, but after I quoted their warranty to the guy, he gave me a RA# and an address to send it to. The guy I talked to sounded like he was pissed off at the world and very unhappy with his job.

I was told the refund would take up to one billing cycle, however after two months I still did not have it. I sent emails and got no reply, so I called on the phone and camped out until someone finally answered. This guy was pretty sharp, immediately looked up my claim and stated they had not received the barrel. He asked me what address I had sent it to and I told him it was the one furnished, which was an address in New York. He said that was incorrect and he would take care of it. I had my refund back in my account six hours later. This guy was located at their headquarters in Madison, NC. Hopefully, their service has gotten better since the move is now complete.

Apparently, Bushmasters are still very popular since one is used at every mass shooting there is, according to the mainstream media! :mmph:

 

[donr101395]

Because they use questionable parts and assemble them haphazardly. When they incorrectly do something or just don't do little things I can see it makes me wonder what they are hiding that I can't see.

 

[MIAMI MATT]

Well since BM was sold I consider them about the same as a DPMS or other low to mid grade gun...just not the quality they used to be. Build your own and get better parts and get it the way you want it, cheaper too.

Wise words above.

 

[camuchi]

Ok so I am hearing that the company is not what it once was after being handed around some. I could build one at least as nice for le$$ ( if i knew what to buy and where to buy it and if it was available)

didnt know about the commercial/milspec buffer tube, does it matter? performance/function wise??
and i am probably not near enough of a skilled shooter to appreciate or optimize different barrell twist options
i dont need to fire several thousand rounds a year out of this gun - again probably not an issue for my intended use and the co$t of ammo right now.

Patoz I shearched and read about your barrell problem before posting the question and it seems like they did do right after you had to chase em some.

Donr what are the questionable parts and assemble that concern you? something i should check/ have checked before firing the weapon?

sounds like i got a little 'gun happy' before doing my due diligence and ended up with a platform that is at least average or on the low side of above average
that i bought on the high side of the dollars @($1150 out the door)

keep the opinions/advice coming
thanks

 

[dead-bird]

http://www.windhamweaponry.com/shopnews.asp?type=Windham Weaponry: An Inspiring Tale

 

[1956_4x4]

I bought two Bushmaster DCM models back in the eighties and still have both of them (although one has recently been reconfigured...). They're very well made and will put them right where I want them. They have more than their share of rounds through them during practice/competition and I can't recall a single failure. Now, the company has changed hands a few times and I can't speak for the current quality of their products.

My advise would be to use it and see if you have any problems. There's nothing like the "hands-on" experience to form your own opinion.

Smitty

 

[FrankT]

Ok so I am hearing that the company is not what it once was after being handed around some. I could build one at least as nice for le$$ ( if i knew what to buy and where to buy it and if it was available)

didnt know about the commercial/milspec buffer tube, does it matter? performance/function wise??
and i am probably not near enough of a skilled shooter to appreciate or optimize different barrell twist options
i dont need to fire several thousand rounds a year out of this gun - again probably not an issue for my intended use and the co$t of ammo right now.

Patoz I shearched and read about your barrell problem before posting the question and it seems like they did do right after you had to chase em some.

Donr what are the questionable parts and assemble that concern you? something i should check/ have checked before firing the weapon?

sounds like i got a little 'gun happy' before doing my due diligence and ended up with a platform that is at least average or on the low side of above average
that i bought on the high side of the dollars @($1150 out the door)

keep the opinions/advice coming
thanks

Yeah that is a bit on the high side depending on configuration. You have it now, run it and see what happens. If it works well for you then you are good to go, if not it can be corrected...you have already done it so now make the best of it.

 

[MIAMI MATT]

In all honesty as long as you do not own the carbon 15 model your lower is just as good as the next brand. If you have any hiccups with the gun you can always try other uppers when sampling configurations

 

[camuchi]

Sounds like a good plan, as soon as i gather up some ammo I will give it a go.

thanks for your input, I will report back!

 

[flyandscuba]

A canabalized an early Bushmaster lower -- and made it a 50 Beowulf rifle. Lots of things you could do with your investment. You could probably even break it down and sell it off as parts -- and make more money in the current market.

 

[Crazydoc68]

Back in the day (1998) and a bit after that Bushmaster was a decent company. Now they have gone down and to the wayside. I agree with Frank and build you own. That way you can get it your way. It's usually cheaper then buying a stock one and trying to upgrade it. It may take awhile longer to build it in these times with parts being kind of scarce and all. But you will also have the feeling of accomplishment also. Like the other day I finished my first lower!

 

[FUPAGUNT]

I have a Bushmaster and have absolutely no complaints. Shoots as straight as my BCM build or Spikes.
It is an older BM though..

 

[donr101395]

Donr what are the questionable parts and assemble that concern you? something i should check/ have checked before firing the weapon?

E.R. Shaw, Green Mountain and Wilson barrels(not Wilson Combat), they are garbage barrels with known chamber dimension fluctuations anywhere from a true 5.56 chamber to a .223Wyldeish chamber to a .223ish chamber. It's not they aren't capable of making a decent barrel, it's that those they are supplying don't pay for a quality barrel to be made. You never know what the chamber is going to be like when you get one. Poorly or not staked gas keys, loctite on the receiver extension nut(castle nut). They just aren't worth the hassle considering the cost. Even back in the 80s and 90s they weren't anything great the only thing they had going for them were they were available. The four brands I routinely see have issues in classes are Bushmaster, DPMS, Olympic and Rock River.
On assembling your own stuff of equal or better quality than the known quality brands it can't be done for the same cost or cheaper. To build an upper the same quality as a BCM, Daniel Defense or Colt it costs me $518 in parts I can buy that upper already assembled for $525 from BCM and my time is worth more than $7. To exceed the quality they have achieved I have to add another $150-250 in the barrel.
I hear it all the time about how all the parts come from the same few manufacturers and while it true it's only half of the equation. When a company orders parts to be made they have to submit their own dimensions, and reject criteria and the higher quality companies simply have a higher standard for the parts they use. A good example of this is when I was talking with Sully who owns Defensive Edge and SLR15 Rifles during an armorers course. He had an entire batch of lowers he rejected. About a year later they had a customer bring in a Blackthorne AR that wouldn't work right. When he looked at the serial number is was one of his rejected serial numbers that had been run with the Blackthorne roll mark. In that same class we had two police armorers with full auto DPMS lowers that had all of the holes drilled crooked and they said they had brought the best two rifles they had because they were getting ready to return all 150 rifle they had to the manufacturer because none of them would run long enough to make it through a patrol rifle qualification course.

ETA: In general the lower receiver is the least important part as long as the holes are drilled straight and the magazine well isn't tight most of them are good to go.

 

[TURTLE]

Not to derail but,what do you guys think about Stag Arms? Should be another thread.

 

[FrankT]

I had a Stag and it shot just as well as the Bison and ARP, nothing ever broke, was good out of the box so I was very pleased.

 

[TURTLE]

I had a Stag and it shot just as well as the Bison and ARP, nothing ever broke, was good out of the box so I was very pleased.

Glad to hear you say that Frank, I know you know your weapons. I feel better now and thats no sarcazm.I enjoy shooting mine as well and I can't wait to see what it's like with the new piston and buffer tube.

 

[Gravity3694]

Stag and Bushmaster are decent rifles. For most people who don't heavily use their rifles they are good to go.

If you nitpicky like me and obsess about staked carrier keys and HP/MP testing then you probably like BCM or Colt.