I was thinking about selling some of my toys and move up to the 1911 les Baer world. Obviously it is not practical, but I ain't getting any younger. Anyone ever shot one? Is it worth the price of entry to own a "Rolex"?
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Les Baer?
- Thread starter Kanaloa
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When Dan reads this he will let you know as he is up on high end guns. For the way I think is if you are getting up there in age like I am and can affore it GO FOR IT. Even if you don't like it you will never say I wish I had. I am going to have to say that about alot of things in life already.
Now about that girl in High School, Thats a diffrent topic.
Now about that girl in High School, Thats a diffrent topic.
Dan1612
Master
Yep, here I am. Lol. Les Baer makes a great 1911.
Personal preference for me, I don't like the rough edges, very Colt-like. The slide to frame fit is impressive, but I'm not sure it does much for function, reliability or accuracy. The one I had came with more trigger creep than I find acceptable in the price range. They said they'd take a look at it, but it would take a while. NOT acceptable.
Sometime later, I bought a new Wilson that was ordered by the dealer with a 4# trigger, but also had an almost imperceptible amount of creep. I shipped it to Wilson, and no questions asked, they sent it back fixed, the afternoon of the business day following their receipt of the gun. I was impressed.
After have the Baer, 2 Nighthawks and 3 Wilsons, I only have one left, my first Wilson, which I bought used for less than a new Baer. I'm my eyes, no other 45 1911 will likely ever measure up.
If your heart is set on Baer, by all means, go for it. A 1911 that good is a real treat. But, To me, while Baer makes a good gun, Wilson is the best on the business due to their combination of quality AND customer service, which makes Baer feel more like going home with the runner up.
My advice, buy used or save a little more lunch money for a new Wilson and never look back.
Personal preference for me, I don't like the rough edges, very Colt-like. The slide to frame fit is impressive, but I'm not sure it does much for function, reliability or accuracy. The one I had came with more trigger creep than I find acceptable in the price range. They said they'd take a look at it, but it would take a while. NOT acceptable.
Sometime later, I bought a new Wilson that was ordered by the dealer with a 4# trigger, but also had an almost imperceptible amount of creep. I shipped it to Wilson, and no questions asked, they sent it back fixed, the afternoon of the business day following their receipt of the gun. I was impressed.
After have the Baer, 2 Nighthawks and 3 Wilsons, I only have one left, my first Wilson, which I bought used for less than a new Baer. I'm my eyes, no other 45 1911 will likely ever measure up.
If your heart is set on Baer, by all means, go for it. A 1911 that good is a real treat. But, To me, while Baer makes a good gun, Wilson is the best on the business due to their combination of quality AND customer service, which makes Baer feel more like going home with the runner up.
My advice, buy used or save a little more lunch money for a new Wilson and never look back.
Bought my second Night Hawk T3 yesterday. Was at a local gun shop and it was on consignment (Had not been Fired) at $2450 I couldn't say NO. As for any of the high end 45's I would buy one just to say I have one high end 45. In my case I now have two. The shop also had a Wilson Combat, a Colt rail gun and a les Baer on consignment. I'm tapped out so no more guns in the immediate future.
I missed the boat. In 2007 I almost purchased the Wilson CQB compact. I would see them in the $1500 range used quite often. I decided to wait until after my overseas tour. That was a mistake. I came back in 2010 and the price had really jumped.
I like the supermodel analogy. But you know, I wouldn't feel too bad if I had a supermodel on the couch
I like the supermodel analogy. But you know, I wouldn't feel too bad if I had a supermodel on the couch
How did those other Wilson and LB look?
Dan1612
Master
I wanna know where. I saw a Brown at Jays once, it was on consignment and the owner hit cold feet, and one of my Wilsons at TGD. Other than that , I've never seen or heard of a selection anything like that anywhere near here. Given KDW is in Crestview.
I have an older les baer concept VII I think that it is a really nice, well put together pistol. I only have about a grand invested in it, and I feel like it shoots better, has better fitment and trigger pull than my colts, kimbers, sigs, springfields etc, but obviously those are all production pistols. I have never owned or shot any other "high end" 1911's to compare, but based on the one that I have, I think that they are capable of making some really nice stuff.
I was in Outpost Elite Gun shop in Daphane today & they had Night Hawk, Ed Brown, & Wilson. They may have had a Les Baer but I did not notice it. Worth the drive just to hold a few high end 1911s to see for yourself.
I have a Dan Wesson Valor that is hands down the best pistol I have ever fired. I have two Wessons a CCO & Valor. Now I have never fired a Les baer or the others mentioned above. I think some of the ones listed above have a better dehorned safety & slide stop then mine. I do not think (IMO) they have another $1,500 worth of work or parts in them. That does not mean I would not have one but I would not pay for them.:blah: If I did it would be an Ed Brown as I prefer the aesthetics.
If you want to try my Valor we can meet at a range one day. They are hard to find at local stores I had to order both of mine. Supposedly the next step up from the Wesson is a Les Bear. If you prefer a coated gun (Black)then Dan wesson may not save you any money vs the Les baer as their duty coat guns cost more then the stainless. I think the Dan Wesson is good value for your money. If you just want to own the best & money is not as much of an issue then get one of the others mentioned.
My Valor is what my Colt wants to be when it grows up. LOL
Mine with Iron wood grips I added.
I have a Dan Wesson Valor that is hands down the best pistol I have ever fired. I have two Wessons a CCO & Valor. Now I have never fired a Les baer or the others mentioned above. I think some of the ones listed above have a better dehorned safety & slide stop then mine. I do not think (IMO) they have another $1,500 worth of work or parts in them. That does not mean I would not have one but I would not pay for them.:blah: If I did it would be an Ed Brown as I prefer the aesthetics.
If you want to try my Valor we can meet at a range one day. They are hard to find at local stores I had to order both of mine. Supposedly the next step up from the Wesson is a Les Bear. If you prefer a coated gun (Black)then Dan wesson may not save you any money vs the Les baer as their duty coat guns cost more then the stainless. I think the Dan Wesson is good value for your money. If you just want to own the best & money is not as much of an issue then get one of the others mentioned.
My Valor is what my Colt wants to be when it grows up. LOL
Mine with Iron wood grips I added.
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Thanks for all the info! Your Dan Wesson looks classy, especially with the Iron Wood grips. I have read good things about the DWs, and will do some research on those. I live in Mobile, and will take a drive over to Daphne tomorrow and take a close look at those 1911s to see what all the fuss is about. But don't worry, I will leave my credit cards and not-so-small children at home to avoid overwhelming temptation.
My token pic.
You wanna know about Baer, and here I am blabbing about Wilson. Sorry, I'll stop. Lol.
Posting that Wilson pic was just down right mean! :smile
You even have color matching bullets! Now that's cool.
I was in Outpost Elite Gun shop in Daphane today & they had Night Hawk, Ed Brown, & Wilson. They may have had a Les Baer but I did not notice it. Worth the drive just to hold a few high end 1911s to see for yourself.
I have a Dan Wesson Valor that is hands down the best pistol I have ever fired. I have two Wessons a CCO & Valor. Now I have never fired a Les baer or the others mentioned above. I think some of the ones listed above have a better dehorned safety & slide stop then mine. I do not think (IMO) they have another $1,500 worth of work or parts in them. That does not mean I would not have one but I would not pay for them.:blah: If I did it would be an Ed Brown as I prefer the aesthetics.
If you want to try my Valor we can meet at a range one day. They are hard to find at local stores I had to order both of mine. Supposedly the next step up from the Wesson is a Les Bear. If you prefer a coated gun (Black)then Dan w.esson may not save you any money vs the Les baer as their duty coat guns cost more then the stainless. I think the Dan Wesson is good value for your money. If you just want to own the best & money is not as much of an issue then get one of the others mentioned.
My Valor is what my Colt wants to be when it grows up. LOL
Mine with Iron wood grips I added.
On your suggestion, I stopped over at the Outpost today. They didn't have a Les Baer to compare, but they did have one Wilson, one Ed Brown and about 5 Nighthawks (with more Nighthawks ordered). That was the first time I have fondled something that classy (gun related). I thought the slide would be difficult to rack, but quite the contrary. It was not at all difficult and glassy smooth. I didn't find the quality (I am no expert) that much better than my Sig 1911. Not given the $2500 price difference. But I could definitely see and feel it. You can tell a lot of extra attention went into getting to that level of quality. The level of quality is certainly not a practical thing, but it is definitely a work of functional art that I appreciate. Kind of like a Rolex next to my Seiko dive watch. Yeah - I want one (or more).
Dan1612
Master
The slide on a Baer WILL be difficult to rack. That's just how they're built.
I'm my mind, what you're paying for is as close as you can get to absolute reliability. I shoot 1911s better than anything else, so naturally, that's what I want to carry and reach for should the zombies come knocking. However, IMO, to have a 1911 that will work properly, it should be fitted, as that is the way JMB designed them to be made. By craftsmen, fitted by hand. Unfortunately, the labor that goes into making a gun using those methods, will cost a bit more.
So, to me, it's about function, if I want a 1911 to bet my life on, I want it to be built as designed, by the best in the business. The fact that they're gorgeous is just gravy.
The XTac Protector and CQB are the best values, you don't get or pay for unnecessary dips and grooves. Everything you need in a fighting gun, and nothing you don't.
I'm my mind, what you're paying for is as close as you can get to absolute reliability. I shoot 1911s better than anything else, so naturally, that's what I want to carry and reach for should the zombies come knocking. However, IMO, to have a 1911 that will work properly, it should be fitted, as that is the way JMB designed them to be made. By craftsmen, fitted by hand. Unfortunately, the labor that goes into making a gun using those methods, will cost a bit more.
So, to me, it's about function, if I want a 1911 to bet my life on, I want it to be built as designed, by the best in the business. The fact that they're gorgeous is just gravy.
The XTac Protector and CQB are the best values, you don't get or pay for unnecessary dips and grooves. Everything you need in a fighting gun, and nothing you don't.
The is no question that all the guns you handled today are better then any production gun including my Dan Wesson (it is still a production gun). The question is how much better. Does it have better parts & fitting of those parts. Next is how much more are you willing to pay for it.
At some point there is a diminishing return on the investment. That point will vary from person to person. I would feel guilty walking around with a 3,500 gun but that is just me & my BS. I also think that if I was going to buy a 3,500 gun it would be a straight up custom built to order. A complete one off with no names on it.
I do not think you need a top tear 1911 to have one you can count on but it does need to be put together right. I do like your analogy of a high end watch. I trust my colt with my life but it does not evoke the same response as my Wesson. One feels like a sloppy & mass produced piece while the other feels like a fine piece of machinery. One looks & feels like it was slapped together, the other feels like it was assembled by someone who knows & cares about what they are doing. They both still go bang every time I pull the trigger.
In all honesty I am not sure how much actual hand fitting goes into my Dan Wesson. I believe they have such tight tolerance on their parts that very little time is spent fitting the gun together. A true custom by an independent smith can spend more time fitting a beaver tail safety the most guns see on the assembly line.
I hate to even mention this as Dan may freak out on me but even the great Wilson combat uses their own drop in barrel on most of their guns except the super grade. This was mentioned by a Wilson rep on the 1911 forum.
At some point there is a diminishing return on the investment. That point will vary from person to person. I would feel guilty walking around with a 3,500 gun but that is just me & my BS. I also think that if I was going to buy a 3,500 gun it would be a straight up custom built to order. A complete one off with no names on it.
I do not think you need a top tear 1911 to have one you can count on but it does need to be put together right. I do like your analogy of a high end watch. I trust my colt with my life but it does not evoke the same response as my Wesson. One feels like a sloppy & mass produced piece while the other feels like a fine piece of machinery. One looks & feels like it was slapped together, the other feels like it was assembled by someone who knows & cares about what they are doing. They both still go bang every time I pull the trigger.
In all honesty I am not sure how much actual hand fitting goes into my Dan Wesson. I believe they have such tight tolerance on their parts that very little time is spent fitting the gun together. A true custom by an independent smith can spend more time fitting a beaver tail safety the most guns see on the assembly line.
I hate to even mention this as Dan may freak out on me but even the great Wilson combat uses their own drop in barrel on most of their guns except the super grade. This was mentioned by a Wilson rep on the 1911 forum.
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Dan1612
Master
Lol. No freaking out here. Super grades are cool but more of an exercise in excess, and mostly aesthetic. The barrels are all fitted to the bushings though. I think the point of diminishing returns happens when you start adding cutesy stuff. Checkered this and that and countersunk whatever.
I would trust ANY of the kimbers, colts or springfields I've owned. Had great luck with them, but the extra peace of mind is more than worth it to me.
I would trust ANY of the kimbers, colts or springfields I've owned. Had great luck with them, but the extra peace of mind is more than worth it to me.
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