My Dad gave me a Ruger M77mkII in .308 over 20 years ago and it still amazes me. I hand load and regularly produce 3 shot cloverleafed groups at 100yds. Out at 300 it spreads to about 4". Are your factory hunting rifles similar?
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Hunting rifle accuracy
- Thread starter grouper22
- Start date
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Have you ever guaged you chamber for distance from bullet to lands clearance? The groups with some rifles tighten considerably when that distance is either
increased or decreased. Hornady makes a simple 20 dollar guage to measure this, but I prefer a loose bullet in the cartridge and machinist blue. The trick is to measure this distance and back the bullet off the lands by .003, .005, .009,.012, and .015 respectively with 3 shells each mark them with a sharpie and see which distance gives the tightest grouping with a freshly scrubbed bore and a cool barrel. Remember, every rifle is different.
increased or decreased. Hornady makes a simple 20 dollar guage to measure this, but I prefer a loose bullet in the cartridge and machinist blue. The trick is to measure this distance and back the bullet off the lands by .003, .005, .009,.012, and .015 respectively with 3 shells each mark them with a sharpie and see which distance gives the tightest grouping with a freshly scrubbed bore and a cool barrel. Remember, every rifle is different.
SAWMAN
Master
I have two Ruger M77's. Both of them shoot like this. Even the Compact with it's 16.5" pencil bbl chambered in 308Win will do this with hand loads. My loads are set back .003-.005" off the lands. I can keep MOA with this gun out to 300yds. Have not tried further.
My measurement is accomplished by using a piece of fired brass from that gun,not resized,with a bullet started into the case mouth backwards. I extract it very slowly and do the measurements with a Frankford Arsenal digital vernier caliper. If you do not load up to the higher pressures you can actually seat hard into the lands. Most bench rest shooters seat their bullets .020 LONG then the turning in of the bolt finishes the bullet seating process. These guys usually load a medium load though. They want NO bullet jump into the lans at all.
Good Shootin' --- SAWMAN
My measurement is accomplished by using a piece of fired brass from that gun,not resized,with a bullet started into the case mouth backwards. I extract it very slowly and do the measurements with a Frankford Arsenal digital vernier caliper. If you do not load up to the higher pressures you can actually seat hard into the lands. Most bench rest shooters seat their bullets .020 LONG then the turning in of the bolt finishes the bullet seating process. These guys usually load a medium load though. They want NO bullet jump into the lans at all.
Good Shootin' --- SAWMAN
olecarver
Master
Now you guys are talking surgical tools,,, Im listening :thumb:,, An dont stop now.. So much new bullets on the market,, Boat tails , Blitz, Crimp,, dont crimp.... I thought I knew something, Till seeing some of the threads created in around good sportsmen that ( Shoot ) not just pull a trigger.. Please go on... Im listening, Reading or something here ,,,, olecarver
Saw, I tried this with a rifle thats been a quiz... It didn't work... I don't deny that this proceedure will work, it just didn't for me with this particular rifle. Now, it's back to the drawing board.... I was within a few points of max, but def not max. Ennywho, I may try it with the load backed off to 75% of max, Whadya think???
SAWMAN
Master
There are definitely some rifles that love that "jump" between the case mouth and first engagement in the lands. The Weatherby comes to mind. However i feel that most do not. The benchrest guys take it to the extreme.
If you load hard into the lands back off about 8% from MAX or in the load books a load on the lower side. You can easily work up. Make sure to stay within the parameters of the load manuals. I have found that the most and quickest pressure spikes come with the large bore belted magnums. A 416Rigby(even though no belt) is a great example,so are the RUM's. A 308Win is super tollerant of this. The small jump into the lands is perfect for me.
Another problem that you could have that will greatly effect (extreme)accuracy is bullet concentricity. I use a gauge from NECO to test my reloads. The longer COAL is the most suseptable to being untrue. This gauge(and others) will make you a true believer in "PROPER DIE ADJUSTMENT". My reloads are concentric to within .003" when turned in the gauge.
Good Shootin' --- SAWMAN
If you load hard into the lands back off about 8% from MAX or in the load books a load on the lower side. You can easily work up. Make sure to stay within the parameters of the load manuals. I have found that the most and quickest pressure spikes come with the large bore belted magnums. A 416Rigby(even though no belt) is a great example,so are the RUM's. A 308Win is super tollerant of this. The small jump into the lands is perfect for me.
Another problem that you could have that will greatly effect (extreme)accuracy is bullet concentricity. I use a gauge from NECO to test my reloads. The longer COAL is the most suseptable to being untrue. This gauge(and others) will make you a true believer in "PROPER DIE ADJUSTMENT". My reloads are concentric to within .003" when turned in the gauge.
Good Shootin' --- SAWMAN
Last edited:
kaferhaus
Marksman
All else being equal, you need two things for accuracy. A good barrel and good bullets.
A "hunting" rifle that will consistently put 3 shots under 1" with a factory barrel and off the shelf ammo is not common. 1.5" 3 shot groups are more the norm and are perfectly adequate for big game hunting out to 400yds. Although 95% of hunters have no business shooting much past 200yds.
I've shot benchrest for over 30yrs and I've always jammed the bullets into the lands. We use very little neck tension, so once chambered you must fire the round. Otherwise you'll end up with a action full of gunpowder and a bullet in the bore if you try to extract the round.
I never load hunting ammo to touch the lands as there's still the real possibility of creating a huge mess on extracting a live round. I do however load most hunting ammo to just touch or just off the lands with the exception of most .22 centerfires. Most of those like a .010 -.020 jump.
My hunting is mostly predator hunting and a annual prairie dog shoot. Haven't shot a white tail deer in over a decade.
On "run out" my match loads are under .001" and hunting ammo is below .002" Varmint and match ammo is all loaded with bushing type straight line dies on an arbor press.
On a pure factory rifle..... prep your brass like it was match brass, only use high quality bullets and go to town. Nothing else you do is going to matter as the barrel and trigger are luck of the draw as is the action to stock fit....
There's a reason match rifles and really good varmint rifles cost big bucks.
A "hunting" rifle that will consistently put 3 shots under 1" with a factory barrel and off the shelf ammo is not common. 1.5" 3 shot groups are more the norm and are perfectly adequate for big game hunting out to 400yds. Although 95% of hunters have no business shooting much past 200yds.
I've shot benchrest for over 30yrs and I've always jammed the bullets into the lands. We use very little neck tension, so once chambered you must fire the round. Otherwise you'll end up with a action full of gunpowder and a bullet in the bore if you try to extract the round.
I never load hunting ammo to touch the lands as there's still the real possibility of creating a huge mess on extracting a live round. I do however load most hunting ammo to just touch or just off the lands with the exception of most .22 centerfires. Most of those like a .010 -.020 jump.
My hunting is mostly predator hunting and a annual prairie dog shoot. Haven't shot a white tail deer in over a decade.
On "run out" my match loads are under .001" and hunting ammo is below .002" Varmint and match ammo is all loaded with bushing type straight line dies on an arbor press.
On a pure factory rifle..... prep your brass like it was match brass, only use high quality bullets and go to town. Nothing else you do is going to matter as the barrel and trigger are luck of the draw as is the action to stock fit....
There's a reason match rifles and really good varmint rifles cost big bucks.
kaferhaus
Marksman
I saw your post, welcome to GGVG! I've been a member there about 12yrs (long before the new forum)
Another good one is benchrestcentral
