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ATF no knock warrant
- Thread starter Southalabama
- Start date
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Bowhntr6pt
Master
Reminds me of the guy we had locally who was murdered, I shared that story on here a while back. He was selling guns w/o a license.
Seems he was engaging in the business and his sales ended up in criminal's hands.
The plot thickens...
Rebel_Rider1969
Well Known Nuisance
Your little dog too!!
Rational Mind
Expert
I'm only part way through it but he was buying a lot of guns through an ffl and evidently he sold some the following day. Definitely acting as a dealer without regard to whom he was selling them to. Making a little bit of money is not worth the potential damage a firearm can do. Thank goodness the people I've seen on this forum have some Morals and have shown to be responsible in who they choose to buy, sell, and trade with. We've all bought guns and later found we just didn't like them, wanted to upgrade what we have, needed money for an unforseen emergency, realized we bought something on impulse and didn't need it, etc. Big difference.
He also did some fast, risky driving to avoid an ATF tail that was doing surveillance on him.
I wonder just what he was thinking. If the warrant is telling the truth, he was in deep legal do do for sure. Not to have known it was likely the ATF that was kicking in his door, duh again what was he thinking.
I would say that he got a Darwin award. These days I buy maybe a gun every year or so. I would never do a double purchase of handguns.
Rational Mind
Expert
I bought 3 cz p01's so myself, wife, and son would all have the same ccw's before I knew that those sells were reported to the state police and fbi. We all still carry them. Hopefully they won't kick in my door and shoot us all. For the ATF agent monitoring this forum you contact me through here and I'll meet yall with my attorney to show you we still have them, you leave my dogs and family alone.
If this guy really did all this, he was definitely a moron and natural selection ran its course.
But, and I think we all know how I feel about the ATF, I do believe I’m pretty justified in being skeptical of their story too. That warrant definitely isn’t proven.
It all seems really out of character for a man that age, no criminal history, and with a successful job he spent 3 decades at.
When you buy from an FFL, doesn’t seem like there’s much profit to be made (tho I do appreciate the effort when I see some of y’all list a stock Glock for $750). It seems like the dealers he was buying from would have felt many red flags along the way.
I’m gonna need to see a video of homeboy driving before I know whether it was erratic or he just didn’t have time for BS.
I’m proud of the way people make an effort in this community to keep firearms from falling into the wrong hands. Whether we agree with the feds or not about regulations, none of us want to get pinched over something silly or cause another member to, and I don’t think anything would be any different about who any of us would sell to if there were no gun laws at all.
So this was about buying and selling too many guns without an FFL (commerce lightly fellas), and guns falling into the wrong hands. Well then I’m really only left with one question:
Did the fedbois who trafficked guns to drug cartels that they then used to murder American citizens also get their doors kicked in and blasted in the face while lying in bed next to their wives? Asking for friend.
Erratic driving is bs. I’d like to see the warrant for the tracker.
This was a business/ffl license issue. Not a gun running terrorist. If he was such a threat you execute the search warrant and enter the residence when he’s at work, you know the one guarded by the TSA. They wanted him home. They wanted him asleep and disoriented.
This was a business/ffl license issue. Not a gun running terrorist. If he was such a threat you execute the search warrant and enter the residence when he’s at work, you know the one guarded by the TSA. They wanted him home. They wanted him asleep and disoriented.
It’s just that whether he was innocent or 100% doing exactly everything the warrant stated, this was all so unnecessary. These agents were pure cowards.
I hate the ATF. That’s pretty obvious. But even so, I’d take my chances in court if they ever falsely accused me of something. Literally everyone beats the ATF in court, that’s probably why they don’t want to take it there . Knock on my door, show me a warrant, I’ll call you names and cuss you (in a calm, cool, collected tone ya &$@-: fedbois) but I’ll never physically resist a legal warrant.
But if a few dudes kick in my door while I’m sleeping, and I wake up to men wearing all black with ski masks who are screaming… I can’t imagine my story would end any differently
I hate the ATF. That’s pretty obvious. But even so, I’d take my chances in court if they ever falsely accused me of something. Literally everyone beats the ATF in court, that’s probably why they don’t want to take it there . Knock on my door, show me a warrant, I’ll call you names and cuss you (in a calm, cool, collected tone ya &$@-: fedbois) but I’ll never physically resist a legal warrant.
But if a few dudes kick in my door while I’m sleeping, and I wake up to men wearing all black with ski masks who are screaming… I can’t imagine my story would end any differently
Just about everything that is being said about the ATF here is true.
Basic facts of life is that American is dominated by entities and individuals of great wealth and power. They have set up very powerful alphabet agencies to do their bidding. Think of the Eye of Sauron and you do not want to attract the attention of it and fall under its gaze.
If the deceased did even 25% of what the warrant alleges, he got a Darwin Award.
It is not a question of moral right or wrong here, it is getting in direct conflict with those of great power that can terminate you. One can argue that it is a good day to die or not.
Basic facts of life is that American is dominated by entities and individuals of great wealth and power. They have set up very powerful alphabet agencies to do their bidding. Think of the Eye of Sauron and you do not want to attract the attention of it and fall under its gaze.
If the deceased did even 25% of what the warrant alleges, he got a Darwin Award.
It is not a question of moral right or wrong here, it is getting in direct conflict with those of great power that can terminate you. One can argue that it is a good day to die or not.
A lot of wisdom in these words. The line between “man of principle” and “fool who picked the wrong hill” has never been thinner.
Pro tip: the ATF always loses in court. They always win when they murder you. Choose wisely.
Randy Weaver did win in court and also got a civil settlement; but of little comfort since he lost his 14 yr old son and his wife. The original frame up charge was from ATF, even if it was the US Marshals and FBI that killed his family members.
Bowhntr6pt
Master
Those of you who think wealthy people with a lot going on don't break the law simply have not interacted much with the general public when it comes to LE. People have alternate egos and behaviors... "I can't believe Joe did that" is a VERY COMMON theme when we investigate serious crimes... and selling guns willy-nilly is certainly serious.
Another example of people who are well off doing stupid stuff is Larry Vickers.
Before anyone gets too upset about this guy... keep in mind HE IS THE REASON ALL THESE MORE RESTRICTIVE LAWS ABOUT PRIVATE SALES ARE BEING MADE. Guys like this screw all of us in one way or another. I'm sure there are a lot more out there like him.
This does not appear to be minor or minimal activity... this guy was moving guns... and some into the wrong hands it appears.
Not saying he "deserved to die"... perhaps he was slightly paranoid thinking he's a target for both money and guns thus his defensive reaction when his house was entered. Maybe he honestly thought he was being robbed... we will never know.
There's too much detail in that warrant for it all to be false IMO... after learning of the circumstances surrounding the warrant and the guy's alleged activities, I only have sympathy for his family... they are left to deal with the mess he made.
With all that said... they possibly could have surrounded his house at 9am with one team and then picked him up at work with another team... maybe they thought of that and feared a violent encounter in the public was a possibility, would not be the first time someone "normal" flipped out at the moment they knew their life was about to change forever in a bad way.
Another example of people who are well off doing stupid stuff is Larry Vickers.
Before anyone gets too upset about this guy... keep in mind HE IS THE REASON ALL THESE MORE RESTRICTIVE LAWS ABOUT PRIVATE SALES ARE BEING MADE. Guys like this screw all of us in one way or another. I'm sure there are a lot more out there like him.
This does not appear to be minor or minimal activity... this guy was moving guns... and some into the wrong hands it appears.
Not saying he "deserved to die"... perhaps he was slightly paranoid thinking he's a target for both money and guns thus his defensive reaction when his house was entered. Maybe he honestly thought he was being robbed... we will never know.
There's too much detail in that warrant for it all to be false IMO... after learning of the circumstances surrounding the warrant and the guy's alleged activities, I only have sympathy for his family... they are left to deal with the mess he made.
With all that said... they possibly could have surrounded his house at 9am with one team and then picked him up at work with another team... maybe they thought of that and feared a violent encounter in the public was a possibility, would not be the first time someone "normal" flipped out at the moment they knew their life was about to change forever in a bad way.
Bowhntr6pt
Master
Lon Horiuchi should have been prosecuted.
Bowhntr6pt
Master
Because of this type activity the noose around our collective necks gets tighter... this guy gave the .gov plenty of ammo to support more restrictive laws.
Agree... big difference between selling off some guns and making beneficial trades vs. what this guy supposedly did.
