AR-15 for huting?

[305RSlc]

If I was just starting out I wouldn't go with 223 when a 308 will out shoot it any way you want to talk about it. Why limit yourself to really under 100 yards most of the time when the 308 will kill out to who knows where. Now for all the 223 lovers that claim 200 yard shots remember he is new and may not be able to hit a hog right behind the ear at that distance.

308 hands down.

New to hunting, not new to shooting but I do see your point as shooting from a tree stand would be much different than from a solid rest at a shooting range. I doubt I would be bold enough to go beyond 100yds without knowing for sure it would be a DRT type shot. I don't want to be "that guy" that is out on his first couple of hunts and loses everything he shoots at.

 

[305RSlc]

I spent almost 20 years studying martial arts, the simple lesson is small target, big force = you don't want to throw a fainting jab to break a nose, use your entire forearm and destroy the target/eye orbits/ jaw/ etc.. =big bullet ... A 5.56/.223 is all about precision and is in effect a jab-My 2 coins

Good luck

Love this illustration. I would never sell the AR as you mentioned in your reply, and I am quite proficient with shot placement on paper. But, as you and others have brought up, on a bench with a stationary target is much different than in a stand, shooting down, on something that is moving or could be moving. Decisions, decisions. I do appreciate everyone's reply and it has definitely been a wealth of things to consider!

 

[Grassflatsfisher]

New to hunting, not new to shooting but I do see your point as shooting from a tree stand would be much different than from a solid rest at a shooting range. I doubt I would be bold enough to go beyond 100yds without knowing for sure it would be a DRT type shot. I don't want to be "that guy" that is out on his first couple of hunts and loses everything he shoots at.

I agree with most everyone on the post. Yes a .223 will kill a deer. A .22lr will also. There are bigger rounds that do it better. You can get into a decent 6.8 or 300blk barrel for $150-200. If you get one with the same gas block size and tube length then you would be ready to go with just the barrel swap. The axis is a great choice for a rifle. I've shot 2 different ones and both were very accurate. A great value. The ruger american is a good gun also.

Here is my experience with shooting deer with a .223. My 5yo shot this buck at 40yds dead broadside. He hit him dead center shoulder with a 62gr georgia arms btsp. He knocked the deer down and it dug potatoes off the plot. We gave him 30mins and went to trail him. I walked up on the deer and he was still alive...barely but he was. We waited another 2hrs and came back and found him.

This is how we found him.


Here is what he looked like hanging up. I haven't touched done anything to him at this point.


The bullet hit the shoulder knuckle and fragmented,split his hide, and one lunged him.

So last summer we switched up to the 6.8spc and practiced our shooting. Much different story for this years hunting season. 80yd shot broadside. Almost the exact shot placement as the buck. Much different results. Watch and see...you can fast forward some:
http://youtu.be/rzRxwyV2xmY

 

[Emcm2]

One thing I ain't seen brought up an ar will kill deer and hogs but remember to get a five round mag Eglin and several management areas around here you can't have more then five rounds and I know for a fact you can't just load five in mag I hunted with someone who had his ar and Eglin MPs took his mag because it didn't have a stop in it. Told him we could take your gun. So just be sure to check local area you want to hunt for mag size and or shot limits.

 

[Clay]

Definitely read your rules and regs. In FL you can't hunt deer with more than five rounds. Hogs have no mag limit unless you're on certain areas (Eglin perhaps, don't know BC I don't hunt it). I just received two 5rd C products mags for my 6.8 off eBay for $11.95 and $8 for as many shipped as you like. The 5rd mags are easy to find and affordable.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

I agree with most everyone on the post. Yes a .223 will kill a deer. A .22lr will also. There are bigger rounds that do it better. You can get into a decent 6.8 or 300blk barrel for $150-200. If you get one with the same gas block size and tube length then you would be ready to go with just the barrel swap. The axis is a great choice for a rifle. I've shot 2 different ones and both were very accurate. A great value. The ruger american is a good gun also.

Here is my experience with shooting deer with a .223. My 5yo shot this buck at 40yds dead broadside. He hit him dead center shoulder with a 62gr georgia arms btsp. He knocked the deer down and it dug potatoes off the plot. We gave him 30mins and went to trail him. I walked up on the deer and he was still alive...barely but he was. We waited another 2hrs and came back and found him.

This is how we found him.


Here is what he looked like hanging up. I haven't touched done anything to him at this point.


The bullet hit the shoulder knuckle and fragmented,split his hide, and one lunged him.

So last summer we switched up to the 6.8spc and practiced our shooting. Much different story for this years hunting season. 80yd shot broadside. Almost the exact shot placement as the buck. Much different results. Watch and see...you can fast forward some:
http://youtu.be/rzRxwyV2xmY

No offense... but that's nothing more than a bad placed shot (square in the shoulder vs. just behind it). I've seen that very thing with other rifles including .30-06 and .243 Winchester.... it goes back to my original statements... SHOT PLACEMENT. What you've posted is NOT specific to the .223 or any other caliber.

OP... these other guys are bringing up valid points reference the ability to deliver a WELL PLACED SHOT under the excitement and stress of hunting a live animal. The .223 loads I use DO NOT leave a blood trail... never have... and I've never needed one.

Shooting from a tree stand UNSUPPORTED will limit your effective range... it limits EVERYONE to a degree due to a lack of stability... that's why I've never taken a head or neck shot beyond 50 yards. That's why I aim just behind the shoulder where there is less to obstruct my bullet, see the above post reference shoulder bones/plate. My stands have front rails... so stability is a non-issue and the fact I'm competent with a long gun shooting from unsupported positions. I'm fortunate, I train twice a month on the job as a Sniper Team Leader.

In the below pic, you can see two bucks my kid killed and actual shot placement... it "looks" as if the shot is too far rearward... it's not... both of these guys went MAYBE 20 yards... he WAS NOT using a .223, he was using a .243 with a 100gr hand loaded bullet (Nosler BT).

I will agree there are "better" rounds than the .223 generally speaking, but if you're a disciplined hunter, take solid shots within your abilities, and use the PROPER bullet, you will not have any issues killing deer efficiently with your AR15.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

Forgot to mention... this past year my brother make a clean head-shot on a deer at 30 yards using a Pre-64 Winchester Super Grade chambered in .22 Hornet... I loaded up some 45gr Soft Points for him to use... BUT... his stand limits his shots to about 75 yards and our property is PRIVATE and not pressured so the deer are quite relaxed and often offer excellent shots.

Here are some I've taken...

198lb. 6-point Black Powder



Small 8=point



Another 8-point



Only got him on camera... he was killed next door the next weekend



Watching a spike mill around



A view from my stand

 

[helo_hunter]

Check game laws - because some states limit or have restrictions on projectile weight. I am dating myself but when I hunted AL in the '90s, had to have projectiles of at least 100 grains for deer. Know FL doesn't have that limit.

 

[305RSlc]

One thing I ain't seen brought up an ar will kill deer and hogs but remember to get a five round mag Eglin and several management areas around here you can't have more then five rounds and I know for a fact you can't just load five in mag I hunted with someone who had his ar and Eglin MPs took his mag because it didn't have a stop in it. Told him we could take your gun. So just be sure to check local area you want to hunt for mag size and or shot limits.

I would have to outfit it with a decent optic (I am thinking 1x-4x red dot that does well in low light), a sling, 5 round mags, and decent ammo. Got that covered from my original post

All excellent points folks and, from the looks of it, a .223 can still do some pretty good damage with, as has been emphasized, good shot placement. This is what I was looking for as all I have seen is the damage done to a stationary paper target or the stories I hear from military that 5.56 is not effective at range.

 

[Daezee]

9.5" 300BLK upper, Leupold 1.25-4x Hog Plex scope - one coyote, Nosler 125gr Ballistic Tip bullet
16" 6.8SPC upper, Nikon M223 2-8x scope - one coyote and one pig, Hornady 120gr SST bullet
16" 300BLK upper, Nikon M223 2-8x scope - one coyote and 6 deer, Nosler 125gr Ballistic Tip bullet (that one coyote was shot more than once until he dropped and stayed down) (all other animals listed above took one shot each)

This season I'm going to try a 16" 5.56mm upper, Burris 2-7x scope for deer hunting. Will be shooting Sierra 65gr Game King bullets. Max distance where I'll be hunting is 229yd, but the vast majority of deer seen are at less than 200yd, more like 150yd average. I know my load is accurate, and every review of that 65gr bullet says it will do fine with heart/lung/neck/spine hits. I've "matured" enough in deer hunting that I can wait for a good shot and older deer. After I use the 5.56mm upper, I'll autopsy the deer to determine the damage done by the bullet and then determine what caliber I'll use next. Note: I hunt on my brother's Georgia farm. Normally plenty of deer that have little to no hunting pressure on them, so I can afford to pass up deer that are smaller or that are not presenting a good shot, in fact, I was the only hunter there last season.

Variety is the spice of life when you have an AR with it's ability to easily change calibers/uppers. I tend to mount the smaller variable scopes on my AR's other than the larger 3-9x or bigger power scopes, trying to keep the weight and size of the rig down. I think an AR is fine for deer hunting. The semi-auto function allowed me to take 2 deer the season before last that were together.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

9.5" 300BLK upper, Leupold 1.25-4x Hog Plex scope - one coyote, Nosler 125gr Ballistic Tip bullet
16" 6.8SPC upper, Nikon M223 2-8x scope - one coyote and one pig, Hornady 120gr SST bullet
16" 300BLK upper, Nikon M223 2-8x scope - one coyote and 6 deer, Nosler 125gr Ballistic Tip bullet (that one coyote was shot more than once until he dropped and stayed down) (all other animals listed above took one shot each)

This season I'm going to try a 16" 5.56mm upper, Burris 2-7x scope for deer hunting. Will be shooting Sierra 65gr Game King bullets. Max distance where I'll be hunting is 229yd, but the vast majority of deer seen are at less than 200yd, more like 150yd average. I know my load is accurate, and every review of that 65gr bullet says it will do fine with heart/lung/neck/spine hits. I've "matured" enough in deer hunting that I can wait for a good shot and older deer. After I use the 5.56mm upper, I'll autopsy the deer to determine the damage done by the bullet and then determine what caliber I'll use next. Note: I hunt on my brother's Georgia farm. Normally plenty of deer that have little to no hunting pressure on them, so I can afford to pass up deer that are smaller or that are not presenting a good shot, in fact, I was the only hunter there last season.

Variety is the spice of life when you have an AR with it's ability to easily change calibers/uppers. I tend to mount the smaller variable scopes on my AR's other than the larger 3-9x or bigger power scopes, trying to keep the weight and size of the rig down. I think an AR is fine for deer hunting. The semi-auto function allowed me to take 2 deer the season before last that were together.

I have taken game with my AR15's chambered in .223; 6.8SPC; .50 Beowulf; .30HRT; and 6mmx45. I'd like to continue the quest for other calibers such as the 6.5 Grendel,
.30 REM AR, .300 BO, but I need another caliber like a hole in the head...lol.

 

[Grassflatsfisher]

No offense... but that's nothing more than a bad placed shot (square in the shoulder vs. just behind it). I've seen that very thing with other rifles including .30-06 and .243 Winchester.... it goes back to my original statements... SHOT PLACEMENT. What you've posted is NOT specific to the .223 or any other caliber

No offense taken, but I do disagree. Shot placement was good, just not good for an under performing bullet. I shoot for the front shoulder more times than not, but I'm more times than not shooting at a good buck and I want him down. I grew up shooting behind the shoulder and still do at times but more times than not I aim for the running gear and have never had a bullet do what that one did. I have never had any bullet except for a .223 not penetrate through after hitting bone. I have seen ballistic tips make superficial wounds like the above in other calibers but I have never had a solid or lead core bullet not make it through and that includes the.243, 6.8spc, .270, and .308s that I hunt or have hunted with. Had he shot that deer with a 6.8 the results would have been much different, without a doubt. Imo it was most definitely a .223 issue not a shot placement as I have taught him to shoot the shoulder which is exactly what he did. I'm not denying a little lower or higher might have given different results but he made a very ethical shot in the shoulder that should have had full penetration into the cavity even after striking bone. Either way the end result was a dead deer. We will be shooting 6.8 from now on.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

No offense taken, but I do disagree. Shot placement was good, just not good for an under performing bullet. I shoot for the front shoulder more times than not, but I'm more times than not shooting at a good buck and I want him down. I grew up shooting behind the shoulder and still do at times but more times than not I aim for the running gear and have never had a bullet do what that one did. I have never had any bullet except for a .223 not penetrate through after hitting bone. I have seen ballistic tips make superficial wounds like the above in other calibers but I have never had a solid or lead core bullet not make it through and that includes the.243, 6.8spc, .270, and .308s that I hunt or have hunted with. Had he shot that deer with a 6.8 the results would have been much different, without a doubt. Imo it was most definitely a .223 issue not a shot placement as I have taught him to shoot the shoulder which is exactly what he did. I'm not denying a little lower or higher might have given different results but he made a very ethical shot in the shoulder that should have had full penetration into the cavity even after striking bone. Either way the end result was a dead deer. We will be shooting 6.8 from now on.

Fair enough... good luck to you and your son this coming season.

 

[SAWMAN]

IMO ........ the only bullets that should be considered in the 223Rem/5.56 for deer and hogs is the Barnes solid copper(50gr+) or the Nosler Partition. I have killed numerious of the above using the 55gr TSX from Barnes. --- SAWMAN

 

[TraderDan]

I spent almost 20 years studying martial arts, the simple lesson is small target, big force = you don't want to throw a fainting jab to break a nose, use your entire forearm and destroy the target/eye orbits/ jaw/ etc.. =big bullet ... A 5.56/.223 is all about precision and is in effect a jab-My 2 coins

Good luck[/QUOTE]

Clay, I take back everything I ever said bad about you.

 

[bobinbusan]

A 7.62X39 will do the same job a 30 30 will do and that 30 30 has killed a lot of deer :hippie:

 

[Dan1612]

There's a few boxes of Uncle Ted's 77gr TSX loads sitting tag the top right of the Academy ammo aisle. Should be a good hunting load. Just make sure your barrel can stabilize it, if not, he also makes 55, but I'd do the 77's if at all possible.
0.01.

 

[Snow Bird]

I'm gona put my .02 in. For more years than I like to admit and more deer than I can leagally talk about I used 55grain pointed soft point Hornady(spelling) bullets in a 222,yes 222 not 223. Never took anything but lung shots and it killed them all dead. Never anything past 100 yards and no Can I make this shot?

Will a 223 work on hogs and deer/ Hell yes if you pick your shots and don't do crazy shit like shooting at one on a dead run 200 yards away. There is alot of talk about which bullets to use and there are so many more good choises now than 45 years ago.

 

[305RSlc]

There's a few boxes of Uncle Ted's 77gr TSX loads sitting tag the top right of the Academy ammo aisle. Should be a good hunting load. Just make sure your barrel can stabilize it, if not, he also makes 55, but I'd do the 77's if at all possible.
0.01.

1:9 twist. I think the 77gr would be a tad big to try. Hindsight being 20/20, I would've picked up something with a 1:7 twist, but I'm all about working with what I have now.

Does anyone else have recommendations for optics, mounts, or general good ideas for a decent AR-15 platform hunting rifle? I've looked into all that were suggested, and so far, I have a wish list for the coming months. :madgrin: Once I get my mount and scope, I'll start trying out ammo to see what my rifle likes most to be sure I am dead on at 100yds.

 

[Dan1612]

Uncle Ted's 55 grainers, Leupold 1-4 on a mk2 mount. Trigger of choice, RRA varmint is a good but inexpensive option.