AR-15 for huting?

[305RSlc]

I am looking to get started in hunting this year (first time around and I'm as green as they get). I have tossed around different ideas for my first deer/hog rifle. My initial thought was go head and get a cheaper, but decent, bolt gun (.308) package like the Savage Axis or something in that price range. However, I do currently have an AR-15 that, for about $100 less than a bolt package, could theoretically work. I would have to outfit it with a decent optic (I am thinking 1x-4x red dot that does well in low light), a sling, 5 round mags, and decent ammo.

With that in mind, how many of you use your AR-15 to hunt deer and hogs with? For those of you that do, what is your current setup and what would you suggest a newbie adding to their, essentially, bone stock AR to make it a decent hunting rifle (optics, ammo, etc.)? What are some concerns or areas I should consider if I went this route instead of a bolt gun? One thought I had was a smaller bullet would require taking shots at much closer range than something with more stopping power to make sure I'm not just wounding animals with little to no possibility of retrieving them. Is this something that would be an issue? Any insight or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

mods, if this is more hunting forum appropriate, my apologies!

 

[Calculated steps]

If ar is your choice then I wouldn't go with 5.56... 300blk or 6.8 would be the calibers to go with.

 

[FrankT]

The modern sporting rifle is all I hunt with but for me the 223/556 is too light and I run a 6.8SPCII, however you can make it work depending on the twist and ammo you use. It will not be a 308 in knockdown power.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

I've taken PLENTY of deer with the AR15... as with everything else, SHOT PLACEMENT is the key... there is no substitute for PROPER shot placement. On whitetail deer at/below the 200 lb. mark, the .223 with PROPER bullet selection is extremely lethal.

If you have a flat-top, simply get a decent mount, like the Burris P.E.P.R. (comes in 1" or 30mm) http://swfa.com/Burris-AR-PEPR-1-Scope-Mount-P12624.aspx and a decent scope... I'd go 1x-8x or 3x-9x for hunting. There are tons of cost effective scopes out there to choose from.

Ammo... you will want a Soft Point bullet at or over 60grs. The Speer 64gr Gold DOT, Winchester 64gr Power Point, are good places to start. Me... I've killed many deer DRT using hand loaded Speer 70gr Semi-Spitzer with 26.0grs W-748. Don't use FMJ, Ballistic Tips (Hornady TAP, Federal Tactical, etc.), or the various HP or OTM Match ammo. I've provided my friends with this load (70gr. Semi-Spitzer) and they ALL have reported fantastic performance on deer and large hogs here in central Florida.

Or... as mentioned above, get a 6.8SPC upper to use on your lower... the 6.8 SPC is a great deer cartridge with the Sierra 110gr Pro-Hunter bullet. The Hornady 120gr SST is flat out deadly on deer.

 

[305RSlc]

Yeah, I have looked into both the 6.8 and 300blk, but going either of those routes would require about the same, or more, of an investment compared to an entry level bolt gun package and I would still have to find ammo which I have not seen as readily available as .308. I should have clarified in my original post that this would strictly be a 5.56/.223 option if I were to stay with the AR platform for hunting. I know it is possible to take a larger animal with a .223, but shot placement would have to be key and I would undoubtedly limit myself with shot opportunities unless it was a sure thing compared to something that could reach out there. So, essentially, .223 is not a good option for a hog or deer gun?

 

[FUPAGUNT]

Plenty of deer and hogs taken with .223. Shot placement is key as others said

 

[FrankT]

There are plenty of animals taken w a 223/556, there are better choices, but like Bow said...it will work

 

[305RSlc]

I've taken PLENTY of deer with the AR15... as with everything else, SHOT PLACEMENT is the key... there is no substitute for PROPER shot placement. On whitetail deer at/below the 200 lb. mark, the .223 with PROPER bullet selection is extremely lethal.

If you have a flat-top, simply get a decent mount, like the Burris P.E.P.R. (comes in 1" or 30mm) http://swfa.com/Burris-AR-PEPR-1-Scope-Mount-P12624.aspx and a decent scope... I'd go 1x-8x or 3x-9x for hunting. There are tons of cost effective scopes out there to choose from.

Ammo... you will want a Soft Point bullet at or over 60grs. The Speer 64gr Gold DOT, Winchester 64gr Power Point, are good places to start. Me... I've killed many deer DRT using hand loaded Speer 70gr Semi-Spitzer with 26.0grs W-748. Don't use FMJ, Ballistic Tips (Hornady TAP, Federal Tactical, etc.), or the various HP or OTM Match ammo. I've provided my friends with this load (70gr. Semi-Spitzer) and they ALL have reported fantastic performance on deer and large hogs here in central Florida.

Or... as mentioned above, get a 6.8SPC upper to use on your lower... the 6.8 SPC is a great deer cartridge with the Sierra 110gr Pro-Hunter bullet. The Hornady 120gr SST is flat out deadly on deer.

Thanks for the input! What distances are you seeing with the deer you have taken? How flat shooting is a bullet that heavy (front a 16" barrel)? I have seen some great reviews about the Power Points but have yet to try them as I've only been to target practice with 55g-62g.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

Yeah, I have looked into both the 6.8 and 300blk, but going either of those routes would require about the same, or more, of an investment compared to an entry level bolt gun package and I would still have to find ammo which I have not seen as readily available as .308. I should have clarified in my original post that this would strictly be a 5.56/.223 option if I were to stay with the AR platform for hunting. I know it is possible to take a larger animal with a .223, but shot placement would have to be key and I would undoubtedly limit myself with shot opportunities unless it was a sure thing compared to something that could reach out there. So, essentially, .223 is not a good option for a hog or deer gun?

Within 200 yards and a CLEAN shot, the .223 with PROPER ammo is simply deadly... I wish I had pics to share with you of what the inside of a chest cavity looks like after one of those 70gr bullets goes through it... the good ole' behind the shoulder shot with that bullet drops them quickly... I don't think I've ever had one go more than 50-60 yards.... with MOST going just a few feet or yards.

 

[FUPAGUNT]

There are plenty of animals taken w a 223/556, there are better choices, but like Bow said...it will work

There are always better choices for everything

 

[FUPAGUNT]

Speer Gold Dot 64 gr SP

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

Thanks for the input! What distances are you seeing with the deer you have taken? How flat shooting is a bullet that heavy (front a 16" barrel)? I have seen some great reviews about the Power Points but have yet to try them as I've only been to target practice with 55g-62g.

I hunt from stands where the max shot is perhaps 150 yards... the longest shot I've taken was perhaps 75 yards. As far as bullet drop, sight in at 100 and hold 4" high at 200... at 2800 FPS that's what the ballistic chart would call for. I get closer to 2900 FPS from a 20" barrel so you will lose a little but not enough to compromise terminal performance.

 

[305RSlc]

Ah, I guess I jumped to conclusions too soon! The goal for this year is to just get started, on a budget of course, and that's where the idea of going with and accessorizing the AR came from. With the mount, scope, magazines, decent ammo, and other items, I was thinking of keeping it in the $300-400 range and being able to take a couple of animals to see if hunting is for me. If I'm not all that into it, I still have a great setup for the range and the zombie apocalypse and don't have an investment in a designated hunting rifle. Then, as I get more experienced, and when the wife says I can...step up to a more suitable designated hunting rifle. Does that make sense or am I just over thinking this whole thing?

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

Ah, I guess I jumped to conclusions too soon! The goal for this year is to just get started, on a budget of course, and that's where the idea of going with and accessorizing the AR came from. With the mount, scope, magazines, decent ammo, and other items, I was thinking of keeping it in the $300-400 range and being able to take a couple of animals to see if hunting is for me. If I'm not all that into it, I still have a great setup for the range and the zombie apocalypse and don't have an investment in a designated hunting rifle. Then, as I get more experienced, and when the wife says I can...step up to a more suitable designated hunting rifle. Does that make sense or am I just over thinking this whole thing?

Nothing wrong with getting a QD scope mount and having your AR15 do double duty as a mid-range quasi precision rig at to 400-500 yards... buying a decent scope is something you can keep and use for YEARS whether you take up hunting seriously in the long run or not.

You can get a scope mount, scope, a 5-round mag, and several boxes of ammo for under $400 no doubt. You don't need fancy cammo pants/shirts to be a good effective hunter.

 

[305RSlc]

I hunt from stands where the max shot is perhaps 150 yards... the longest shot I've taken was perhaps 75 yards. As far as bullet drop, sight in at 100 and hold 4" high at 200... at 2800 FPS that's what the ballistic chart would call for. I get closer to 2900 FPS from a 20" barrel so you will lose a little but not enough to compromise terminal performance.

Excellent. Exactly the feedback I was looking for. I was thinking I would have to limit myself to only shots within 100yds and, ideally, closer to the 50-75yd range since I am working with a bullet that is less than half the weight of a .308. That scope mount looks quite nice as well, thanks for the suggestion.

I have also heard good things about the Speer Gold Dot as well. Has anyone used the Hog Hammers (64g I believe) with good results? I seem to find those almost anywhere I go and readily available hunting ammo I can stock up on and practice with, along with taking game, is a huge plus for me.

 

[Telum Pisces]

Go hunting with someone that can let you borrow a gun to "see if you like it." Plenty of deer and hogs are taken with a .223 round. But most of those are not taking their first shot at an animal and can handle shot placement with their heart racing a million miles an hr from buck fever etc... Where do you plan on hunting? Private land in a nice comfy shooting house? Or public land in a climbing tree stand? It can mean the difference between making a good shot or a bad shot. With my 180gr 30-06 round nose rounds, if I make a bad shot, they still don't go too far and bleed like nothing else. Gut shoot a deer with a .223 and watch them guts plug that exit hole and not leave you any blood. I've seen that happen twice to deer we found the next day from just stumbling on them. There was hardly any blood and not a very big exit wound.

Get both lungs and they will not go far. Get one lung and you'd be surprised how far a deer can go on one lung and minimal blood loss. But if I gut shoot a deer with my big boy, he's dragging guts on the ground from the exit wound and does not go to far. Not that I aim for that. But you hunt enough and it will happen.

Shoot a hog in their plated shoulder with that .223 and your going to give him a sting. Buddy shot a huge hog with his 7mm Mag into the shoulder and it lodged in the shoulder only 3 inches deep. Second shot took it out luckily. But the first shot was a survivable wound.

.223 will do. But I would like to reserve that round to kids just getting into the sport. I don't like a .243 except for kids hunting that are recoil sensitive. But I tend to go overkill for the most part on this subject. I don't like to track animals!!!! A cheap Rem 700 combo gun will be just fine. Optics can be upgraded later.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

Go hunting with someone that can let you borrow a gun to "see if you like it." Plenty of deer and hogs are taken with a .223 round. But most of those are not taking their first shot at an animal and can handle shot placement with their heart racing a million miles an hr from buck fever etc... Where do you plan on hunting? Private land in a nice comfy shooting house? Or public land in a climbing tree stand? It can mean the difference between making a good shot or a bad shot. With my 180gr 30-06 round nose rounds, if I make a bad shot, they still don't go too far and bleed like nothing else. Gut shoot a deer with a .223 and watch them guts plug that exit hole and not leave you any blood. I've seen that happen twice to deer we found the next day from just stumbling on them. There was hardly any blood and not a very big exit wound.

Get both lungs and they will not go far. Get one lung and you'd be surprised how far a deer can go on one lung and minimal blood loss. But if I gut shoot a deer with my big boy, he's dragging guts on the ground from the exit wound and does not go to far. Not that I aim for that. But you hunt enough and it will happen.

Shoot a hog in their plated shoulder with that .223 and your going to give him a sting. Buddy shot a huge hog with his 7mm Mag into the shoulder and it lodged in the shoulder only 3 inches deep. Second shot took it out luckily. But the first shot was a survivable wound.

.223 will do. But I would like to reserve that round to kids just getting into the sport. I don't like a .243 except for kids hunting that are recoil sensitive. But I tend to go overkill for the most part on this subject. I don't like to track animals!!!!

All valid points worthy of consideration... last season my brother botched a shot on a nice buck with a .243 Winchester... watched him literally drag his guts through the field... that damn deer was Houdini because we never found him despite a very good initial blood trail... blood trail just flat QUIT with NO trace afterwards.

 

[Snow Bird]

If I was just starting out I wouldn't go with 223 when a 308 will out shoot it any way you want to talk about it. Why limit yourself to really under 100 yards most of the time when the 308 will kill out to who knows where. Now for all the 223 lovers that claim 200 yard shots remember he is new and may not be able to hit a hog right behind the ear at that distance.

308 hands down.

 

[HEIST]

I use my 243 for hunting since I was a kid and see no need to change it, but I would be willing to use my AR in 556 for closer range shots. I do neck shots most of the time so I dont need a magnum round. Ive had 3 270s and a 308 but I always go back to my 243. BTW you can watch and find great deals on here for a starter gun for hunting. I think someone has a 7-08 single shot for $180 right now.

 

[Clay]

Ah, I guess I jumped to conclusions too soon! The goal for this year is to just get started, on a budget of course, and that's where the idea of going with and accessorizing the AR came from. With the mount, scope, magazines, decent ammo, and other items, I was thinking of keeping it in the $300-400 range and being able to take a couple of animals to see if hunting is for me. If I'm not all that into it, I still have a great setup for the range and the zombie apocalypse and don't have an investment in a designated hunting rifle. Then, as I get more experienced, and when the wife says I can...step up to a more suitable designated hunting rifle. Does that make sense or am I just over thinking this whole thing?

Personally I think you're looking at it backwards. You said you're green which to me translates to not being a proficient shot, having hunting discipline ( not everyone can sit quietly in the woods for hours on end) and when it comes to shooting animals, things change...especially when it's furry and moving, not just paper at the range. Instead of spending $300-$400 on slapping together a 'hunting' AR which limits it's functionality and requires a high degree of proficiency regarding shot placement, I'd keep the AR for HD/Zombies/hobby shooting and pick up either a bolt gun (Savage Axis or a single shot Handi Rifle in .308 or 30.06 You'll have the power to not only reach out and touch your furry friend but if you can put your shot on a pie plate and hit vitals, the bullet will do the rest, thus your 'green' learning curve will be less taxing. If you decide you don't like to hunt, you'll easily be able to flip an Axis or Handi Rifle, compared to an AR that you're stuck with or limited in it's use, most people are AR snobs, they don't want it built on the cheap. The Axis with factory scope is more than enough for you to get a feel for hunting and I think runs less than $350 OTD- the Handi packages are similarly on par and cheaper. If you like the sport, improve the optics and trigger, both barrels will be more than accurate for the life if your hunting if you are a decent shot.

I spent almost 20 years studying martial arts, the simple lesson is small target, big force = you don't want to throw a fainting jab to break a nose, use your entire forearm and destroy the target/eye orbits/ jaw/ etc.. =big bullet ... A 5.56/.223 is all about precision and is in effect a jab-My 2 coins

Good luck