SB15 now deemed illegal to shoot from the shoulder..........

[FrankT]

The bottom line is NFA is out of date for SBR's and suppressors and should be waived, I really think this will happen sooner than later. Who is going to be on your lease watching the way you hold a weapon? No One! With the confusion and 2 different answers there is nothing going to be enforced. I have a backup in my pistol bag so really don't care.

 

[TackleberryMCS]

I am going to agree with most of you that a lot of ATF regulations are not needed and are somewhat an infringement on our right to own some firearms and associated items, unless we go through them for permission. On the other hand, they are still around and they are still making the rules whether we like them or not. You can scream that some of the regulations are in violation of our 1st and 2nd Amendment rights all you want, but that will not get them to change anything. Our government is not perfect and is very far from it, but it is what we have and, unfortunately, we have to deal with it. This SIG Brace determination was not long in the coming. The overwhelming majority of SB15 owners do not use it for the purpose for which it is intended. Even ATF's original determination recommended not using it for any other purpose. Since people will be people, they will do anything to get what the want while flirting with the fine line of legality. Most every SB15 owner found a way to build a SBR without having to go through the process of doing a Form 1. Well, they have been found out and the ATF Acting Chief has made a new determination that if you use the SB15 on an AR pistol as a stock rather than stabilizing brace on the forearm as was intended, then you have a SBR and must have a tax stamp for it. This should not have been any surprise to anyone.

 

[FrankT]

His letter does not mean anything as it is his opinion that day and not a rule or law change. I had 2 Feds, not ATF shoot my new pistol w the SBX brace at the range and really like it...so who is going on my lease and say you know if you shoulder that it is against a letter some jerk at the ATF wrote that holds no law, I have never seen ATF in a tree there watching me.

 

[donr101395]

I am going to agree with most of you that a lot of ATF regulations are not needed and are somewhat an infringement on our right to own some firearms and associated items, unless we go through them for permission. On the other hand, they are still around and they are still making the rules whether we like them or not. You can scream that some of the regulations are violated our 1st and 2nd Amendment rights all you want, but that will not get them to change anything. Our government is not perfect and is very far from it, but it is what we have and, unfortunately, we have to deal with it. This SIG Brace determination was not long in the coming. The overwhelming majority of SB15 owners do not use it for the purpose for which it is intended. Even ATF's original determination recommended not using it for any other purpose. Since people will be people, they will do anything to get what the want while flirting with the fine line of legality. Most every SB15 found a way to build a SBR without having to go through the process of doing a Form 1. Well, they have been found out and the ATF Acting Chief has made a new determination that if you use the SB15 on an AR pistol as a stock rather than stabilizing brace on the forearm as was intended, then you have a SBR and must have a tax stamp for it. This should not have been any surprise to anyone.

You summed it up pretty well. Playing chicken with a couple of county sheriff's in Colorado who didn't want to enforce the law anyway is quite a bit different than thumbing your nose to the ATF who makes a habit out of making examples of people who thumb their nose at them.

I'd like nothing more than for the ATF to go away, but until that happens I'll play within the established box if for no other reason than I have better things to do with my money than pay lawyers to fight in federal court or to get me a great plea agreement that includes no longer owning guns or being able to vote.

 

[SAWMAN]

here is what i think is somewhat sad. it is my belief that some that have posted on this thread are somewhat proud and even happy that they can say ...... naaaah,naaaah,naaah,told ya so,told ya so. they are glad to see this letter come. to them it is kinda like a win for them,a check mark in their box proving that they have made the right,or righter,decision than some others here. that they are soooooooo much smarter than some others that have chosen to go the sig brace route.

re-read the above 24 posts and you can quite easily pick them out. soooooooooooooo .............. where does this leave me. i will most gladly abide by the laws of the land as they are written. my intent is not to ever break any laws concerning the use of my weapons. i am one of the good guys ..... although ..... probably not as good as some others here that have stayed away from the brace and have been hoping that this day would come.

to those i say ...... congratulations. --- sawman

 

[TraderDan]

I don't see that attitude in any posts, more like maybe an "I saw this coming" not a "I told you so". I guess its all in the mind set when you read a post?? Now I see and attitude in your post, but that's just me.

 

[ChrisC]

question is. how would gun range handle this.

 

[FrankT]

Gun range could care less even w me and the Feds shooting my rifle, they thought it was as cool as the feds did...and that was after Nov 10th

 

[TackleberryMCS]

question is. how would gun range handle this.

That remains to be seen. From going to the Santa Rosa Shooting Center for years, and especially these past couple years since there is new ownership, the range officer (Nick) is quick to spot and address things of this nature. A while back, he spotted a guy with an AR pistol with a VFG on it and said something to the owner. He did not elaborate as to whether it was of legal length or not. All in all, it will be interesting as to how many of the ranges will handle this new development.

 

[JohnAL]

I'll bring you some tobacco and papers Frank. :tongue:

 

[TackleberryMCS]

Gun range could care less even w me and the Feds shooting my rifle, they thought it was as cool as the feds did...and that was after Nov 10th

Frank, the thing is that those Feds were most likely not aware of the new letter regarding the SB15. Even many ATF agents are not up on a lot of the regulations and associated letters.

 

[FrankT]

You are right Tackle... and the guy who wrote or answered the letter did he pass it thru legal before sending it? Read the previous letter? Know the ATF cannot have any action against you for the way you hold your weapon? Like Sawman said, too much I told you so and gloating in the thread...I will handle my own business as I see fit and what I think is the intent and commonality of the laws passed and rules made. The letter in itself has not changed anything, just a reading of the concept as this 1 respondent answered...If you write 10 more letters I am sure you will get different responses just like you can when dealing w the IRS.

 

[TackleberryMCS]

Whether the ATF Acting Chief passed it through legal or not before he sent the letter will never be known. Yes, I have read the previous letter. Like I said before, it was stated that the ATF did not recommend using the SB15 for any purpose other than the one for which it is intended. The FTB classifies weapons based on their physical design characteristics. While usage/functionality of the weapon does not influence the intended design, it is not the sole criterion for determining the classification of a weapon. Generally speaking, they do not classify weapons based on how an individual uses the weapon. The issue revolves around the intended design and purpose of the SB15 and how people have come to use the SB15 for a reason for which it was not designed. It is not whether or not you shoulder-fire the AR pistol, but how the brace is being used. It's design is not of that of a stock, but it is being used as one. This is where the problem lies. I shoulder-fire my AR pistol, but it has nothing on it that remotely resembles a stock. By design, it is an AR pistol and cannot be mistaken for a SBR.

 

[FrankT]

So if you use nothing(approved by ATF), a cane tip(approved by ATF) and fishing pole bumper or tennis ball(not required to be approved by ATF) or a sig brace(approved by ATF) shoulder firing is the same act with no advantage to either. They would have a hard time in either regard but to ask you not to use it.

 

[Seanpcola]

Don't forget the soap on a rope.

 

[Brandon_SPC]

About the who Colorado thing I was just using that as an example about the 2nd amendment. Nothing will ever change until enough citizens get together to try and establish that change.

 

[Django]

I guess I'm gonna have to trade off my AR pistol stuff now

 

[SAWMAN]

on midway usa site .... all sig braces are being sold off for $3.95 .... :smile: i just bought 64 of them for an investment.

now ...... waiting on the next letter. --- sawman

 

[John B.]

on midway usa site .... all sig braces are being sold off for $3.95 .... i just bought 64 of them for an investment.

now ...... waiting on the next letter. --- sawman

Lol...

Sent from my Galaxy S5....

 

[kendive]

on midway usa site .... all sig braces are being sold off for $3.95 .... :smile: i just bought 64 of them for an investment.

now ...... waiting on the next letter. --- sawman

I don't think so... They looked to be around $124 or $136 each.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearchQuery=sig+brace