All those trying to sell your pistol braced firearms, video worth watching..

[tritonboy2001]

This GOA lawyer, point blank asked the ATF at Shot Show 2023 a few direct questions, the ATFs reply is mind blowing.

 

[Daezee]

Be sure and read the correction that GOA put in the bottom of the video starting about the 4:03 minute mark. 88 days has nothing to do with the 120 day registration submission time frame. Also, if you are a prohibited person (felon, etc) why the heck are you trying to register a braced pistol?

 

[FrankT]

can you not take the brace off and run it as we did before braces with the foam cover?

 

[FrommerStop]

can you not take the brace off and run it as we did before braces with the foam cover?

Maybe not due to some ambiguous language
If your buffer tube is more than 6.5 inches it might said to offer area for shoulder support. Carbine buffers are most commonly on braced pistols and I believe they are 7.125 inches long

Factoring Criteria for Firearms with Attached “Stabilizing Braces” page 106
(5) Final Rule: Necessary for the cycle of operations of the firearm.

The rule provides that ATF may also consider whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations (i.e., to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive). This consideration is drawn from the NPRM and the proposed Worksheet 4999, which assessed two points for “Extended AR-type Pistol Buffer Tube,” “Inclusion of FoldingAdapter extendinglength of pull,” and “Use of ‘Spacers’ to extend length of pull.” Id. at 30831. These extensions provide additional material to the firearm that is not required for the cycle of operations and, therefore, can be an indicator the firearm is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder. In contrast, material on a firearm that extends the rear surface area of the firearm toward the shooter but is required for the cycle of operations, such as an ARtype pistol with a standard 6 to 6-1/2 inch buffer tube, may be an indicator that the firearm is not be designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder. Even if a weapon is equipped with an accessory, component, or other rearward attachment (e.g.,a “stabilizing brace”) that provides surface area that allows shouldering of the weapon, under the rule, whether the accessory, component, or other rearward attachment is necessary for the cycle of operationsneeds to be considered in determining whether a firearm is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder.

 

[FNHman]

Yawn

 

[pcola612]

I was under the impression that the supreme Court reversed that ban???

 

[FrommerStop]

I was under the impression that the supreme Court reversed that ban???

I have been checking the Federal Register to see if it has been published. It has not been published at https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/search?conditions[term]=ATF+brace# The courts I do not think can do much until it becomes a federal 'law' I am highlighting law because in theory ATF is not allowed to write laws. I must say that I am not a lawyer and so could be wrong. My advice is lol worth what you paid for it.
Until it is published it is mostly of no legal import. In other words it is not legally binding, but there are still other things related to this that are of concern.
There are so many things wrong with it from both just plain rules as to how federal laws are to be written to gross Constitutional violations such as the 2nd Amendment decisions that have been made by SCOTUS. The policy on this forum is not to discuss politics and so I can not really explain where this is coming from.
But if it does get published in the federal register, it is no joke and those that will be hit hardest will be LEOs at local, state, and federal levels. Many are invested in foreign made pistols that due to claims of no 922R compliance are banned. These guns must be surrendered or destroyed. No amnesty for them.

 

[FrommerStop]

I’m actually surprised we’re not seeing the market flooded with people trying to offload the pistols before the rule is put in place.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Many people are planning to defy this ruling when and if it becomes 'law' and it not been published yet. That is many are planning to keep them regardless of what ATF publishes.
There are way too many scoff laws to effectively enforce it, but I will comply. I already have new legal 16 inch plus barrels. If it does not get published
I will build a new AR rifle with it. I do not take chances with 10 yr free stays in Club Fed. Many think differently. It will be like prohibition where people got drunk anyway and high as they do now with drugs in spite of the drug laws.

 

[FrommerStop]

There have been some updates.
1-I think you can get rid the brace and be ok with a smooth pistol length tube. I am trying find out and so far not sure 100%, just 95% sure.
2- Replace the barrel with one of 16" and you are good to go.
3- The SBR route will probably be ok, but the lawyers have found some what ifs. That means things that most likely will not happen. If you ever do a bad shooting with an SBR, just for using the SBR there is lengthy sentence. You need permission to take it across state lines and other restrictions.

I will remove and destroy the brace so there is no constructive intent possible. If the AR pistol proves not practical for hitting things, then I will go rifle length and also put in a bufferless folding stock.
If you are one of those that will not comply best not to mention it anywhere, especially on line. That can include any relatives that might turn on you.
The rule is now said to going to the federal register on the 31 of Jan 2023 and so people will have till the end may prior to this becoming an enforceable rule/law
There are many court challenges just waiting for the rule to get published.

GOOD SOURCES
I would advise to listen to people like

Tom Grieve a lawyer

The Commonwealth's Gun Rights a lawyer

Fudd Busters A lawyer

Washington Gun Law A lawyer

Also the

Armed Attorneys

 

[Snake-Eyes]

@FrommerStop, good to hear from you again.
Where did you see/hear the info about getting published to the Fed Registry on 31 JAN?

 

[Fanner50]

All you gotta do is register the stupid thing. No big deal. Registration is free. I've had two Registered SBR's for over ten years now with no knock on my door from the dreaded ATF. As someone above posted "Yawn." I never saw how they could be legal in the first place. Flame on.

 

[FrommerStop]

@FrommerStop, good to hear from you again.
Where did you see/hear the info about getting published to the Fed Registry on 31 JAN?

2:15

 

[FrommerStop]

All you gotta do is register the stupid thing. No big deal. Registration is free. I've had two Registered SBR's for over ten years now with no knock on my door from the dreaded ATF. As someone above posted "Yawn." I never saw how they could be legal in the first place. Flame on.

Part of the Big Deal is being deflated by ATF
There was a big question for 922r compliance for foreign made guns with more than 10 foreign parts becoming a semiautomatic short barrel rifle. This applies to any semiauto rifle not deemed by ATF to have a sporting purpose.
ATF has waived that restriction.
IF you live in state that allows pistols, but not SBRs there will be problems going the SBR route.
I always suspected there could problems so I purchased cheaply and built them myself with no 4473 indicating that I have an AR pistol using 'other' receivers. And I will comply.

ATF Says Imported Braced-Guns Can be Registered, Rule to ...​

https://www.nationalguntrusts.com › blogs › atf-says-im...




13 hours ago — “Should that person choose to register the firearm, no further modification of the firearm with domestic parts is required.” Erik Longnecker,

 

[tros6t]

Lots of youtubers are getting views from all of this!

 

[stage20]

I never saw how they could be legal in the first place. Flame on.

No flame, I'm sure most agree But the ATF has allowed and approved this since 2012, roughly. They have to approve every brace design. This is them going back on previous approvals. It's a slap in the face. A 12" pistol is no more deadly than a 16" rifle. And once again, laws don't affect the people they are trying to stop. Only hurts us just trying to have a little fun.

 

[Snake-Eyes]

FYI, this Kalashnikov Komrad will be classified as an SBR when the rule is published. No way around it. Since it was “born” with a brace from the manufacturer, it can’t simply just be removed. And even if it was removed, the OAL would be under 26”, so it would be an NFA item anyway (AOW).

Good times, huh?

Kalashnikov Komrad 12-Gauge Semi-Auto w/ Pistol Brace

The Kalashnikov Komrad is a non-NFA item, compact, 12 gauge semi-automatic, smoothbore firearm, based on the Russian Saiga series. The Komrad has a barrel length of 12.5”. The overall length (OAL) of the Kalashnikov Komrad is 31.5” with the pistol brace fully extended and 29.25” when collapsed...

armsunlimited.com

 

[FrommerStop]

No flame, I'm sure most agree But the ATF has allowed and approved this since 2012, roughly. They have to approve every brace design. This is them going back on previous approvals. It's a slap in the face. A 12" pistol is no more deadly than a 16" rifle. And once again, laws don't affect the people they are trying to stop. Only hurts us just trying to have a little fun.

The ATF is only doing what it is being told to do and that is to take as active a role as they can against proliferation of weapons that are useful for combat. All they have done is to spark an unprecidented buying spree of guns, ammo, and even reloading components. So far it appears that the supreme court says we have to rights to possess weapons in common possession by the citizens of the USA.
The current ATF ruling is very badly written and they have had months to write it. The writers seem not to have been well versed in US law and so have made mistakes. The 922r compliance issue is one of them. They have also stated that they are not compelled to obey the ADA civil rights act, American with Disabilities Act. I am sure will see what courts think about that and I hope it goes back to bite those are pushing the ATF to make such rulings.

 

[FrommerStop]

FYI, this Kalashnikov Komrad will be classified as an SBR when the rule is published. No way around it. Since it was “born” with a brace from the manufacturer, it can’t simply just be removed. And even if it was removed, the OAL would be under 26”, so it would be an NFA item anyway (AOW).

Good times, huh?

Kalashnikov Komrad 12-Gauge Semi-Auto w/ Pistol Brace

The Kalashnikov Komrad is a non-NFA item, compact, 12 gauge semi-automatic, smoothbore firearm, based on the Russian Saiga series. The Komrad has a barrel length of 12.5”. The overall length (OAL) of the Kalashnikov Komrad is 31.5” with the pistol brace fully extended and 29.25” when collapsed...

armsunlimited.com

In the past without a brace short barrels pump guns with a round grip and overall longer than 26 inches with barrel less than 18 inches had been legal for many years. the gun in the picture has a forward pistol grip and what is called a brace. Seek competent legal advice. With a brace and forgrip I would guess not legal now without going through the ATF.
Without the brace and forgrip that gun see bolded it could possibly be legal; I am not a qualified lawyer and do not know.

The Komrad has a barrel length of 12.5”. The overall length (OAL) of the Kalashnikov Komrad is 31.5” with the pistol brace fully extended and 29.25” when collapsed. It weighs 7.85 lbs.

From the Mossberg site https://resources.mossberg.com/journal/defining-a-shotgun

Pistol Grip Firearms (PGF), or “pistol grip only” firearms as they are sometimes called, are another category of non-shotgun “shotguns.” This category includes firearms that have a smooth barrel, are more than 26 inches in overall length, but don’t have a buttstock and therefore can’t be shotguns. They aren’t really handguns either. Instead, the ATF has created this middle-ground category for firearms that are long enough to be a shotgun but don’t have buttstocks.
The good news is that PGFs, unlike AOWs, are standard firearms that don’t have all of the extra restrictions of NFA firearms. This is true even if the PGF has a barrel shorter than 18 inches as long as the overall length is over 26 inches. It can’t be an SBS because, without a buttstock, it isn’t a shotgun. And, because it is over 26 inches, it isn’t a handgun nor is it “readily concealable” so it isn’t an AOW.
It can be tricky to make your own PGF at home - especially if you intend to have a PGF with a barrel length under 18 inches. In order for a PGF with a barrel shorter than 18 inches to be legal, it must have been assembled from a receiver that never had a buttstock attached and it must still be longer than 26 inches in overall length. If the firearm receiver was ever assembled with a buttstock then it was a shotgun at some point and the short barrel would create an SBS, even if the overall length was over 26 inches. Instead, your best bet is to purchase one of Mossberg’s 500 or 590 PGFs that come from the factory without buttstock.

 

[Snake-Eyes]

The Komrad is legal to buy right now, as is with the brace and VFG. However, depending on how fast they ship, and how quick an FFL could in-process it, and then a 4473 filled out, NICS, and delivered to the buyer BEFORE the new rule is “published”, and whether they private sell it two hours later out of “panic”, SOMEONE will be stuck with the “hot potato” when the rule is published.

That “someone” (ArmsUnlimited, FFL, 4473 buyer, private buyer) will have an “unregistered SBR” in their possession.

AND the new rule does NOT allow “amnesty” for it. ONLY for pistols that all of a sudden are considered SBRs. NOT for an all-of-a-sudden SBS.

It’s more guano from the BATFECES clown show.

 

[FrommerStop]

The Komrad is legal to buy right now, as is with the brace and VFG. However, depending on how fast they ship, and how quick an FFL could in-process it, and then a 4473 filled out, NICS, and delivered to the buyer BEFORE the new rule is “published”, and whether they private sell it two hours later out of “panic”, SOMEONE will be stuck with the “hot potato” when the rule is published.

That “someone” (ArmsUnlimited, FFL, 4473 buyer, private buyer) will have an “unregistered SBR” in their possession.

AND the new rule does NOT allow “amnesty” for it. ONLY for pistols that all of a sudden are considered SBRs. NOT for an all-of-a-sudden SBS.

It’s more guano from the BATFECES clown show.

If I got it right what ATF is claiming, disregarding that they said it was ok, is that retroactively all of short barreled brace guns have always been SBRs. It is all just so confusing. Anyway(edit) that may be part of the plan. I would not touch any brace gun coming from a FFL and likely also not from an individual until the courts likely in the next year or so sort through this mess.