More ATF Bullshit - "in the business of selling firearms"

[tros6t]

 

[chip5244]

Soooo, playing games here. But what if and why not?

I have a pistol and a box of ammo I bought for $400 & $10 respectfully. I sell it to a forum member as a package deal for $500. I write the sales receipt up as such. Pistol $400 + Ammo $100. I made $90 on the ammo, broke even on the gun. How does this rule change dictate how I decide to structure my sale?

 

[lil'skeet]

Soooo, playing games here. But what if and why not?

I have a pistol and a box of ammo I bought for $400 & $10 respectfully. I sell it to a forum member as a package deal for $500. I write the sales receipt up as such. Pistol $400 + Ammo $100. I made $90 on the ammo, broke even on the gun. How does this rule change dictate how I decide to structure my sale?

I believe that's problem solved. Or start including $200 magazines.

 

[Boogan1]

If you buy a gun from an individual and do not get a receipt, how are they going to prove you are making a profit on it if you sell it?

 

[FNHman]

“https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download#:~:text=A person who willfully engages,up to $250,000, or both

Updated 8/2023- no opinion expressed on this- posted for informational purposes for our members

No opinion.... lol You just told the internet you will bend over without telling us you will bend over!

If you buy a gun from an individual and do not get a receipt, how are they going to prove you are making a profit on it if you sell it?

Because they can listen to your phone even when the phone is turned off. They see all your messages and emails. Your not as free of a man as you think.

 

[sebastiandangerfield]

No opinion.... lol You just told the internet you will bend over without telling us you will bend over!

Because they can listen to your phone even when the phone is turned off. They see all your messages and emails. Your not as free of a man as you think.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

I'm quite sure BATFE isn't concerned if I flip a gun every once in a while or buy a gun, shoot it, and later decide I don't like it and then sell it. I mean in reality just how often does Joe Q. Pubic REALLY do that?

I think I know the type of folks the law seeks to go after. Whether anyone wants to believe it or not, there are a lot of people out there slinging guns with no real concern who the end user is.

I have ONE cell phone, it's issued to me by my agency. All my activities are subject to search and audit... that hasn't altered my behavior one bit... I am who I am and I'm not afraid to be who I am.

I sleep well at night.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

If you buy a gun from an individual and do not get a receipt, how are they going to prove you are making a profit on it if you sell it?

A gun?

I'm quite sure they don't care about A GUN.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

Soooo, playing games here. But what if and why not?

I have a pistol and a box of ammo I bought for $400 & $10 respectfully. I sell it to a forum member as a package deal for $500. I write the sales receipt up as such. Pistol $400 + Ammo $100. I made $90 on the ammo, broke even on the gun. How does this rule change dictate how I decide to structure my sale?

It doesn't... unless you're doing this weekly as a matter of routine.

 

[gungruntmarine3rddiv]

Hey y'all, let me give you a little background.. I just retired from the military, i'm now 50 years old. I've been in several combat zones, and I (probably like many of you) have done the same, and seen the same shit I have. Kind of like what it looks like when you have society break down and everything devolves into warlords and factions and the shooting starts. I know this, some of you know this. The last half of my service, I was stationed primarily in Europe, and didn't live in the US at all. When I came back, I was greeted with video screens on everything, including gas pumps, civilians who don't care about shit, and kids that run around with Glock switches, and a federal government with an increasingly tyrannical bent, Cops who don't know the law and don't care, A gridlocked Congress passing multiple laws violating all of the first four amendments to the constitution, its truly sad compared to the America I left in 2006. I speak with younger adults (30-ish), and they are completely ignorant of our country's history, as well as anything I learned in high school civics class. I fear our country is doomed, unless some very radical events happen to turn it around. I recognize that the vast majority of the people creating these issues are people essentially in a cult, who seem to have no reasoning capability at all and seem intent on trashing our constitution. I won't have it. I intend on living my life as a free American exactly as I was doing 10, 20 , 30+ years ago. I will continue to pursue my hobbies and do what I wish under the law of the land (constitution). I will remain a sane, moral person. I will also not comply with any of these non-laws. If the ATF wants to see me as a threat, fine, stack up on my door and do what you think is your job. I can't stop you. BUT, I guarantee you won't forget the experience, as I will make some noise, and will defend the constitution as I always have. I want to see my kids grow up and get married, but I won't be a powerless slave under the boot of tyrants either. Oh, and to those who are looking to change the way they live their lives or do business to "get around" their rules, or are complying.... YOU are complicit in this for complying. YOU let this happen. I will not.

This OLD Marine is with you on this. Sworn to protect the Constitution. Better to die in a pile of hot brass than sitting on your ass!

 

[FrommerStop]

What many here do not understand that making a profit is not needed for conviction. The fact you exchanged it via an unlicensed in exchange for money or other benefit or service is enough.
There may also be retroactive aspects to this new regulation. This will not take effect until some time in May, but selling a gun prior to deadline still in theory might get one in hot federal water according to some law experts.

 

[Fodderwing]

The raid on the Little Rock Airport Director was due to "suspicion" of selling guns for profit without a license.

 

[FrommerStop]

I just renewed my membership with GOA. It members are exempted under temporary restraining order until june 2. I am not selling anything so it is no big deal for me at the moment. But in the future it could be important to me personally.

Thank you for your renewing your GOA membership. Your support is appreciated! Here are the details of your renewal transaction:


Donor:__________
Detail: Renew - Annual Membership Renewal
Donation Date: May 21, 2024
Amount: $25.00
Payment Method: PayPal
Payment ID: 1518474
Receipt ID: 25dc430481d2ec9b2c0cfc971ff_______

 

[kendive]

Because they can listen to your phone even when the phone is turned off. They see all your messages and emails. Your not as free of a man as you think.

Maybe yours... Not mine. There are ways to control anything and everything. I have been hacking phones for a very very long time.

But if you want to do something simple build you a box and make it sound proof and an faraday cage. Put your phone and theres in it when doing the transaction. LOL

You can also block your and there phone from transmitting and reciving anything but this might get you in trouble with the FCC. Blaaaa

Jammers are also pretty easy to build. OR...

Get ya an HackRF Portapack...

Great Scott Gadgets

greatscottgadgets.com

.

 

[War-Buff]

I just renewed my membership with GOA. It members are exempted under temporary restraining order until june 2. I am not selling anything so it is no big deal for me at the moment. But in the future it could be important to me personally.



View attachment 286975

I'm also a member of GOA, and I'm sure several other forum members are as well. For anyone here who is not a member of GOA, I strongly recommend joining and supporting them with whatever you can afford.

 

[B52]

I'm quite sure BATFE isn't concerned if I flip a gun every once in a while or buy a gun, shoot it, and later decide I don't like it and then sell it. I mean in reality just how often does Joe Q. Pubic REALLY do that?

I think I know the type of folks the law seeks to go after. Whether anyone wants to believe it or not, there are a lot of people out there slinging guns with no real concern who the end user is.

I have ONE cell phone, it's issued to me by my agency. All my activities are subject to search and audit... that hasn't altered my behavior one bit... I am who I am and I'm not afraid to be who I am.

I sleep well at night.

Your lack of concern by a government that violates the law. Reminds me of the European Jews that decided to stay in Germany because they didn't think the NASI government hated all jews.
Oh remember how reasonable and accommodating the US government was during the Chinese flu. Never mind about Ruby Ridge or Waco. Could be you'er one of the Feds trolling the board.

 

[SumaDDD]

We seem to be trying to use common sense in regards to this. Sure one or two transactions shouldn't matter, but......

Every job is going to have metrics assigned in order to be evaluated against. So say each agent needs to bring two cases per quarter, that might mean 50+ transactions in ATL. How many transactions would that be in a smaller region such as ours? Or if someone just wants to be a buttshark.....

 

[FrommerStop]

Maybe yours... Not mine. There are ways to control anything and everything. I have been hacking phones for a very very long time.

But if you want to do something simple build you a box and make it sound proof and an faraday cage. Put your phone and theres in it when doing the transaction. LOL

You can also block your and there phone from transmitting and reciving anything but this might get you in trouble with the FCC. Blaaaa

Jammers are also pretty easy to build. OR...

Get ya an HackRF Portapack...

Great Scott Gadgets

greatscottgadgets.com

.

You need to block out both ends of the conversation that includes both phones. Could be the other end of the line has a federal agent on it.

 

[FrommerStop]

We seem to be trying to use common sense in regards to this. Sure one or two transactions shouldn't matter, but......

Every job is going to have metrics assigned in order to be evaluated against. So say each agent needs to bring two cases per quarter, that might mean 50+ transactions in ATL. How many transactions would that be in a smaller region such as ours? Or if someone just wants to be a buttshark.....

If there is a huge herd of potential prey animals out there, the lions can not eat all of them is one way to look at it, especially if you blend in with herd and do not stick out.
I tend to stick out a bit. The main goal is scare gun owners from selling guns and the ATF scares me a lot.

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

Even if the "rule" is booted the effect on the general population will stick. Same deal as the "brace" business. They want John Q to "think" it's illegal.
Also the "buy backs" would be a trap. Lol.