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Shooting 147 FMJ .308 bullets backward to get expansion.

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  • FrommerStop

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    If one does not have soft points, one can load FMJ backwards. Seems to make no difference relative to accuracy and the bullets will either expand or fragment. If one only has FMJ bullets, one can improvise hunting bullets via this method.

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    FrommerStop

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    Yeah, but what about 100 yards and farther? Would be interesting to try 45 colt like this and try them in my revolving carbine.
    One can easily achieve 2600-2700 at least in less than max loads in the .308. that velocity is needed to achieve upset of the projectile that is reverse I am not sure if you would get that from a pistol cartridge. Also in a pistol cartridge it is very easy to raise pressures by pushing a bullet back into the powder space of what is a smaller case. So take care in applying this to a pistol cartridge.
     

    FrommerStop

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    For long range this is not not a good load. There is a problem with the pointed bullet. The alignment of the bullets base is extremely important for accuracy. It is not so hard to kill things at 50 yards and 150 yards is still quite doable. When I first read of this it was a book by a man named hunter that in early 20th century kenya had killed literally thousands of lions, elephants, buffalo, rhinos etc. He told of the trick of reversing the bullets when they ran out of solids and so turned the soft points around to improvise a solid for use in their double guns.
     

    SAWMAN

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    Not for me . . for multple reasons . . with this style of bullets base/heel anyway.
    But one question would be. - -> if you are HUNTING with this bullet,loaded in this manner,are you not still hunting with a FULL METAL JACKET BULLET ??
    In your OP I noticed that you referred to these bullets as "FMJ". Plinking at 50yds . . ?? . . maybe. Hunting . . ?? . . not for me.
    At this point in my life,I am still able to buy quality hunting components. --- SAWMAN
     

    SAWMAN

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    Loaded and shot backwards,would the bullets suddenly become ELD or even boat tail ??
    One thing for sure,the B.C. would go to about .102. --- SAWMAN
     

    FrommerStop

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    Not for me . . for multple reasons . . with this style of bullets base/heel anyway.
    But one question would be. - -> if you are HUNTING with this bullet,loaded in this manner,are you not still hunting with a FULL METAL JACKET BULLET ??
    In your OP I noticed that you referred to these bullets as "FMJ". Plinking at 50yds . . ?? . . maybe. Hunting . . ?? . . not for me.
    At this point in my life,I am still able to buy quality hunting components. --- SAWMAN
    It is a technique for when for what ever reason one needs such a bullet NOW and do not have them. I am not sure if such bullets would function in many detachable magazine fed guns.
     

    donr101395

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    Survival type situation why would I care if it were FMJ or not? We've been killing things with FMJ for a long time with good results. Is it perfect; nope. But a lung/heart/cns shot will still result in a dead animal.
    No one uses 158gr LRN or 148gr wadcutters in 38 special anymore either, but they killed a lot of bad guys, just not as efficiently as modern rounds.

    No, I'm not advocating hunting with FMJ for anything other than a pure survival event.
     

    FLT

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    many years ago, a lot of guys loaded 148 grain lead hollow base wad cutters backwards for use in their 2 inch snub nose revolver. At 3 to 7 feet self defense ranges they worked pretty well. I’m sure that by today’s standards they wouldn’t penetrate deep enough to satisfy the internet experts . Of the 2 cases that I know of where they were used they stopped the bad guy in his tracks.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Survival type situation why would I care if it were FMJ or not? We've been killing things with FMJ for a long time with good results. Is it perfect; nope. But a lung/heart/cns shot will still result in a dead animal.
    No one uses 158gr LRN or 148gr wadcutters in 38 special anymore either, but they killed a lot of bad guys, just not as efficiently as modern rounds.

    No, I'm not advocating hunting with FMJ for anything other than a pure survival event.
    For FMJ to kill efficiently, a certain amount of velocity is needed. This is one of the things the Europeans found out when they and others switched from lower velocity heavy round nose bullets to pointed lighter, faster bullets that yawed for their service cartridges. The slim pointed bullets usually tumble at about 2700 fps and often the base starts to go forward and fragments like a soft point anyway.

    There could be an advantage for say doing that for an M1 Carbine or maybe a 300 blackout pistol that is lower velocity. It is just something people can experiment with and normally it is not recommended. Me I would rather count on marksmanship for fmj in a mauser and just saying it is an option.
    I might experiment with backwards 110 carbine FMJ in 300 blackout. I am not even sure if they would feed from an AR magazine. I will definitely be loading them nose forward anyway for plinking ammo if they will function in the magazine since I purchased some at about 9 cents a bullet counting the postage. If they will not function I have other guns that they will function in nose forward. The V max 110s were 30 cents plus postage and the all copper Barnes bullets that I have on order are a lot more. The barnes are definately not plinking bullets.
     

    FrommerStop

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    many years ago, a lot of guys loaded 148 grain lead hollow base wad cutters backwards for use in their 2 inch snub nose revolver. At 3 to 7 feet self defense ranges they worked pretty well. I’m sure that by today’s standards they wouldn’t penetrate deep enough to satisfy the internet experts . Of the 2 cases that I know of where they were used they stopped the bad guy in his tracks.
    My experience with HOLLOW BASED reversed loaded wad cutters was at any distance tumbling occurred with my .38 snubnose that was a cheap knockoff of a smith and wesson. 200 grain bullets at low speed were said also to trumble, But hollow base wad cutters loaded correctly are very accurate target loads. The british did issue a 38 s&w cartridge with a very low velocity 200 grain bullet and IIRC it was said to tumble.
    The Webley Service Revolver - Page 26 - Google Books Result
    books.google.com › books



    ... of humanity' (War Office 1907a: 226) didn't end for the British military in 1914, but ... round-nosed 200-grain soft-lead bullet of the Mk I .380in cartridge (.38/200) ... to give the smaller-calibre weapon an optimal wounding effect by tumbling in ...
    1587919143402.png
     

    donr101395

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    For FMJ to kill efficiently, a certain amount of velocity is needed. This is one of the things the Europeans found out when they and others switched from lower velocity heavy round nose bullets to pointed lighter, faster bullets that yawed for their service cartridges. The slim pointed bullets usually tumble at about 2700 fps and often the base starts to go forward and fragments like a soft point anyway.

    There could be an advantage for say doing that for an M1 Carbine or maybe a 300 blackout pistol that is lower velocity. It is just something people can experiment with and normally it is not recommended. Me I would rather count on marksmanship for fmj in a mauser and just saying it is an option.
    I might experiment with backwards 110 carbine FMJ in 300 blackout. I am not even sure if they would feed from an AR magazine. I will definitely be loading them nose forward anyway for plinking ammo if they will function in the magazine since I purchased some at about 9 cents a bullet counting the postage. If they will not function I have other guns that they will function in nose forward. The V max 110s were 30 cents plus postage and the all copper Barnes bullets that I have on order are a lot more. The barnes are definately not plinking bullets.



    I'm well aware of what it takes for FMJ to kill. At 50 meters it won't be an issue even with a 12.5" barrel with a lung/heart shot or a CNS hit. Like I said, not advocating it, but it makes more sense than going through the hassle of reloading upside down bullets that aren't much good past 50 meters.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Looks to me like a good way to shed a jacket and blow the barrel up with the next shot.
    I do not see how you could shed a jacket, but just because I do not see it does not mean it could not happen. Should be no more likely than the core from a boat tailed hollow point being blown out. Can you give reasons for why you think that might happen.
    When people hollow point a FMJ military cartridges there are stories of the core out blowing out of the cut of nose and leaving a jacket in barrel. If something like that is lodged in 30 cal the worst is a ringed barrel from what I understand and often less than that.
     

    donr101395

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    I do not see how you could shed a jacket, but just because I do not see it does not mean it could not happen. Should be no more likely than the core from a boat tailed hollow point being blown out. Can you give reasons for why you think that might happen.
    When people hollow point a FMJ military cartridges there are stories of the core out blowing out of the cut of nose and leaving a jacket in barrel. If something like that is lodged in 30 cal the worst is a ringed barrel from what I understand and often less than that.


    The common denominator with people making hollow points out of FMJ and people shooting FMJ backwards is that both are being used not as intended or designed. I just don't see the return on invested time for either.
     

    FrommerStop

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    The common denominator with people making hollow points out of FMJ and people shooting FMJ backwards is that both are being used not as intended or designed. I just don't see the return on invested time for either.
    Good thinking. If you have what works, it is safest to stay with it.
    The others are for people that like to experiment or for cases when the correct projectiles are not available. At the moment there is no need to improvise such for practical use.
     
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