real or fake?

[JohnAL]

 

[DaBreeze]

I wish they would just build some more PMR-30s

 

[HughJoergan]

In honor of your misleading thread titles..........

 

[HEIST]

Im waiting on my first Keltec, the PF9, to get here.. I would really like to atleast shoot this one and the PMR30..

 

[Stanley13]

Wtf were r the TITS?

 

[WILWORK4GUNS]

Wonder if its the replacement for the RFB? They were supposed to come out in other calibers.....but maybe Keltec just decided to re-design for the other calibers since the weapon does not need to be as heavy as the .308 version.
I'd love to have one in 7.62x39!....would look AWESOME next to my RFB!!!
-Keltec forum seems to be confirming its existence.....but of course they will probably be more rare than the other keltec unicorns.

 

[Centermass556]

Not a fan of Bullpup stocks....At all.

 

[TraderDan]

KELTEK = Gougers Paridise , I believe they only have a 2 man crew and make 16 guns per year , hype the hell out of them, and don't have any to sell after the 1st few speculators buy them up to put on gunbroker for 3 x the MSRP, and then get the ass when you call them out on it. I haven't ever owned one but havn't seen one I couldn't live without to the point of paying stupid money for.

 

[CCHGN]

uhhh, real?

 

[WILWORK4GUNS]

Not a fan of Bullpup stocks....At all.

These are not bullpup stocks. They are ground-up designed and built REAL bullpups. My RFB is one of the easiest guns I have to clean...and has a really nice trigger - neither of which you will get from a retrofit bullpup stock for another weapon.
There is something to be appreciated in a .308 with a 18" barrel that is only 26" overall.....and has a faster lock time than an ar15.
Even with a suppressor attached its still shorter than most rifles.
Like them or not....Bullpups are most likely the future of military weapons. They are dual purpose.....combining the ability to reach out and touch something at a good distance...with the ability to use it in close quarters (buildings and vehicles.)
They are really not that hard to find....I bought mine at Jays for under retail.
***just some interesting info: the RFB was first designed with a 32" barrel which approaches the ballistics of the 338 lapua!....but with a 210gr .308 round!!! Overall length still keeping to 40 inches.***
http://www.keltecweapons.com/media/...7b515c6453d3b305caRFB_Flyer_SHOT_2007_web.pdf

 

[Centermass556]

CQB with a bullpup is painful... Reload is awkward... Brits don't even use their SA for cqb...

 

[WILWORK4GUNS]

CQB with a bullpup is painful... Reload is awkward... Brits don't even use their SA for cqb...

First hand experience?
Different platform....different drills.
I wouldn't choose the .308 for CQB....but if I was in the situation - it would work. Try that with a conventional weapon with an 18" barrel.

 

[Centermass556]

Yes..first hand experience...I'm not saying I am the smoothest on the draw, and I know my footwork/ form could use some polishing. But, I don't think any drill is going to allow for a smooth reload on those stocks. The position of the magazine makes the mechanics all wrong. And to come from the rear of the weapon back of the front of the weapon for accurate delivery is like going around your elbow...and that is just doing drills when slick...add your kit and get all sorts of crap in your way on the way to the magazine well...as I said, even the Brits and Aussies prefer something other than the L85/L22/SA80 for CQB.

I'm not gonna go into the best CQB round discussion....but I will say, i would not choose the .308 for CQB. I would go with 7.62x39 if I knew all my engagements would be less than 100m. But, contrary to the out of proportion reports and misguided articles the 5.56 does its job just fine. In the land of shooters choice, with the guys that go bump in the night, the 5.56x45 is still clutch.

 

[WILWORK4GUNS]

Well, I don't have any battle experience with it....hope I never do....Its just a really neat gun in a very short package.
I did find some pretty cool video of fast reloads with the Styer Aug ....looks like these guys ( and girls) have mastered it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K5MYDmTEUM

 

[Centermass556]

Actually those folks show the reason why the bullpup is awkward for reload... There move members are smooth but every single one them removed eyes from target, pointed the muzzle away from direction of fire, and completely broke the shoulder weld for reengagement...the best reload I saw was done by the Marietta cop that was kneeling. A good reload should be site less, allow your muzzle to stay in the direction of fire, and maintain shoulder weld. It looks a like this, but not so fast.. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast

http://youtu.be/Hx0JzYcwUiY

 

[WILWORK4GUNS]

Actually those folks show the reason why the bullpup is awkward for reload... There move members are smooth but every single one them removed eyes from target, pointed the muzzle away from direction of fire, and completely broke the shoulder weld for reengagement...the best reload I saw was done by the Marietta cop that was kneeling. A good reload should be site less, allow your muzzle to stay in the direction of fire, and maintain shoulder weld. It looks a like this, but not so fast.. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast

http://youtu.be/Hx0JzYcwUiY

Well....he is good....but he did break the shoulder weld, pivoted the rifle and you cant tell where he is looking since he has massive shades on. Actually looks like he is looking at the mag during insertion.
The speed looked about the same as some of the better ones in the previous video.
I doubt most civilians would be nearly as quick as any of them.
Im not ignoring the other benefits of the bullpup because I might loose half a second on reload......also - I'm bored with the ar15's and the RFB is fun and different.

 

[ilintner]

Oh how I lust after an RFB... effective or awkward... I don't care. I just want it!! :usa2:

 

[Centermass556]

I don't think he broke he weld, he did move his body off line to negotiate around his kit and sling... His eyes though do appear to come off target for a quick second, but his eyes and sight is oriented towards target... He would not loose SA because of complete sift shift like with the bullpup...

I do agree though, those guys and gals in the video have a very quick and smooth reload with that weapon. And it is a crap load better than most folks could do. Given the weapon type, I think they probably have the best technique