Question about someone coming into your house. Thoughts?

[flyandscuba]

No worries in your residence. Immune from criminal or civil action, and will not be arrested unless the law enforcement agency determines that probable cause exists that use of force was unlawful. Shoot a stranger (or use a baseball bat, golf club, or sword, etc.) in your house - doubtful probable cause will be determined...

The Florida law is not a gun law. Period. It contains zero references to guns or shooting, unless you feel propagandistically compelled to count one of those ubiquitous legislative “Whereases” that references the Florida Constitution’s “right of the people to bear arms…” The Florida law is a self-defense, self-protection law. It has four key components: It establishes that law-abiding residents and visitors may legally presume the threat of bodily harm or death from anyone who breaks into a residence or occupied vehicle and may use defensive force, including deadly force, against the intruder. In any other place where a person “has a right to be,” that person has “no duty to retreat” if attacked and may “meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.” In either case, a person using any force permitted by the law is immune from criminal prosecution or civil action and cannot be arrested unless a law enforcement agency determines there is probable cause that the force used was unlawful. If a civil action is brought and the court finds the defendant to be immune based on the parameters of the law, the defendant will be awarded all costs of defense.

 

[Rapier]

Perhaps this comes from years of riding with a Deputy on weekends. Didn't anyone but me catch the fact that two men walked into a dark residence, with a dog barking at them, inside the residence, and never turned the damned light on? You never mentioned where they were supposed to be and it does not sound like your neighbor ever came talk to you about your visitors?

You are lucky to have been armed and to have a light. As to the law, you were well within your rights to have shot both of them, the instant they crossed your threshold uninvited into your home. It was a home invasion. Mistaken residence or not.
Ed

 

[BruceWayne]

the sounds of a million tiny violens... i mean opinions!

 

[Telum Pisces]

FL Law:

776.013 Home protection; use or threatened use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—
(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using or threatening to use defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used or threatened was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
(b) The person who uses or threatens to use defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
(2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force is used or threatened has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or
(b) The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used or threatened; or
(c) The person who uses or threatens to use defensive force is engaged in a criminal activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further a criminal activity; or
(d) The person against whom the defensive force is used or threatened is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using or threatening to use force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.
(3) A person who is attacked in his or her dwelling, residence, or vehicle has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and use or threaten to use force, including deadly force, if he or she uses or threatens to use force in accordance with s. 776.012(1) or (2) or s. 776.031(1) or (2).
(4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.
(5) As used in this section, the term:
(a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.
(b) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.
(c) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.
History.—s. 1, ch. 2005-27; s. 4, ch. 2014-195.

And since the terms unlawfully and forcibly entering is joined by the word AND:

82.01 “Unlawful entry and forcible entry” defined.—No person shall enter into any lands or tenements except when entry is given by law, nor shall any person, when entry is given by law, enter with strong hand or with multitude of people, but only in a peaceable, easy and open manner.
History.—s. 1, ch. 1630, 1868; RS 1687; GS 2152; RGS 3456; CGL 5309; s. 33, ch. 67-254.
82.02 “Unlawful entry and unlawful detention” defined.—
(1) No person who enters without consent in a peaceable, easy and open manner into any lands or tenements shall hold them afterwards against the consent of the party entitled to possession.
(2) This section shall not apply with regard to residential tenancies.
History.—s. 2, ch. 1630, 1868; RS 1688; GS 2153; RGS 3457; CGL 5310; s. 33, ch. 67-254; s. 13, ch. 73-330; s. 19, ch. 77-104.

 

[Droshki]

:deadhorse:

 

[Seanpcola]

JJ, count me in on any class, I'll pay.

I've been in on similar discussions on other forums. Seems like there is usually the cautious group, the trained group and the "aggressive" bunch. I can see the drunks in the wrong apartment scenario, I in fact have seen it. Fortunately the interior was lit when they came through the door. I suspect it's easier to mix up doors than one might think, especially with the layout of some of those cookie cutter buildings.

Lots of variables and in this case only Brandon knows the details. I really like Droshski's door lock setup and may soon order a couple. We're pretty good at always locking behind us but his referenced lock might make a difference for someone else.


Here's something I experienced first hand recently that did give a tense moment:

I am beginning to despise door-to-door salesmen, the really aggressive ones. A lot of times those guys seem to have personalities that keep them from other gainful employment. Many times they aren't trained correctly for approaching people or dwellings, many seem to have no common sense. My wife at one time rented office space to a nationally known sales company and heard occasional stories from the owner of the business concerning a sales call going sideways on someone's property. In one case a lady answered the door, told the salesman she wasn't interested and when she attempted to close the door he stuck a foot in between the jamb and the door. Luckily for him the husband was walking up and "persuaded" the young guy to move along. I can easily see an armed woman fearing for her life and shooting the idiot.

What's happened a couple of times lately that I know of, and happened to me, was a salesman that took the lack of someone answering the door as an excuse to make more noise. My front door bell is disconnected due to remodeling and moving some walls. I don't think too much about it because it's extremely rare for someone to show up at my house without prior knowledge on my part. I can also hear them coming up the drive due to chimes with sensors along the driveway. A few weeks ago some idiot showed up and was canvassing the neighborhood on foot. He cut across my yard (didn't activate the driveway sensors), came on my porch and "rang the bell" a few times. I didn't know he was there. I assume he knew we were home due to the vehicles. When no one came to the door he started knocking. I was upstairs, heard it and headed down to see what was going on. About halfway down he decided we either didn't hear or weren't going to answer so he beat on the door, not a knock, I mean a friggin' hard hammering. My mind went from alarm, to concern that there was some sort of emergency, to thinking the summbich was trying to break the door down. Fortunately for both of us it was daytime and I could observe him easily through the glass (heavily mirrored). I stopped on my side of the door and yelled at him to step off the porch. He did so and I opened the door armed but the pistol was hidden behind my back. He tried to laugh it off but could tell I was close to doing something bad. I demanded he get off my property and escorted him to the road. Got the name of the company, called the office and told them to never solicit on my street again. We'll see. In hindsight I wish I had made him get prone on the ground, called ECSO and covered him till a deputy showed and then let the LEO sort it out. I will if it ever happens again.

I understand protecting ones life and family but I pray each and every one of you guys make the right decision if confronted with a scene like the OP.

 

[Stanley13]

Again guys I just wana take this opportunity to say I really just don't like Droski. Can we BAN him yet? troll

 

[John B.]

The only thing that I am hesitant on is the fact that this happened in an apartment. I don't know the layout of your apartment, so I don't know how easy it could be to mix up the doors. I think you handled it as well as you could have.

Without a light, could you have reached a wall light? I'm trying to play it out in my head, and here is what I think I would do with no lighting in your scenario.

Come around the corner, yell "get down". At this point, a few things could happen,

Option 1. they comply, are held at gunpoint until I'm able to identify them as my neighbors who have waltzed into the wrong apartment, or LEO comes and sorts it out.
Option 2, they do not comply, but turn tail and run away. I lock the door, call LEO.
Option 3. They don't comply, advance, and get a severe case of lead poisoning.
Option 4. They draw down and shoot me. Probably kill my GF as well, and steal my guns, money and TV.

Now, I am not happy with those options, particularly with option 4. But I am also not some trigger happy Rambo type person that would shoot someone who could very well have walked into the wrong apartment. As has been stated, the interview following the shooting could go either way, and God forbid if I did shoot my drunk neighbors who walked in the wrong door, I may not be charged criminally, but I can bet your ass someone would come after me in civil court.

Thankfully, I live in a house in Gulf Breeze. If you are in my house unannounced, you're in serious trouble.

If I were you, I would be trying like hell to find out who the 2 guys were. Hopefully they were just the neighbors or their idiot friends who walked in the wrong door. At this point, for all you know it was an attempted robbery by some quick thinking pussies.

If I were you, I would be making plans to move ASAP. If it was an attempted robbery, they know what you have, and know what you drive.

Another question, after this did you call LEO to document the incident?


Sent from my Galaxy S5....

 

[Riverrat]

Hi guys,
As I wait for my CCW license I have spent a great number of hours reserching types of weapons,defense ammo,holsters and everthing under the sun.....but it occurs to me that one of the most important things I need to consider is training. After reading some of the scenarios and actual events posted in this forum I am convinced that I will need much more than just a gun and some bullets. If you guys know of any training sources that address these types of issues as discussed in this thread please post. I am new to your forum and already have formed some sort of addiction to it.

Thanks Guys

 

[Seanpcola]

Contact oneshot (JJ).^^^^


Yep, carrying a firearm involves a lot of responsibility. Just because you're carrying a hammer not everything should be considered a nail.

 

[Dan1612]

Rapier makes an excellent point. They walk in, DONT turn on lights like most people, have a strange dog bark at them, and they don't high tail it? They were up to no good.
Great job protecting yourself.

 

[Brandon_SPC]

Damn this thread went a lot longer than I thought it would. lol Well I have learned a lot. Thanks everyone.

 

[John B.]

Did you call LEO after this happened?

Sent from my Galaxy S5....

 

[Action]

Was it in escambia or Santa Rosa?

 

[Brandon_SPC]

No I didn't. Honestly it didn't cross my mind because of the screaming wrong apartment. So I honestly thought it was a honest mistake after that and it was Escambia county. But after what y'all have put into perspective I should've called law enforcement.

 

[Seanpcola]

Yep, probably a good idea to report things like that though I do hesitate to call law enforcement thinking they have more important things to do. I did call them when I had the two "salesmen" show up in my back yard over that other incident I related a while back but I did really think those guys were up to no good.

 

[Action]

Will you pm me the complex?

 

[Brandon_SPC]

Yep, probably a good idea to report things like that though I do hesitate to call law enforcement thinking they have more important things to do. I did call them when I had the two "salesmen" show up in my back yard over that other incident I related a while back but I did really think those guys were up to no good.

Same here I didn't want to bug them and go into a huge report because I thought it was an honest mistake.

Will you pm me the complex?

I did.

 

[John B.]

PM me too if you don't mind Brandon.

Sent from my Galaxy S5....

 

[Brandon_SPC]

PM me too if you don't mind Brandon.

Sent from my Galaxy S5....

Pm Sent