POA-POI how do you ZERO your hunting rifle?

[M118LR]

A funny thing happened, the original 5K of Silver Bear 154 HP Match seems to have been expended. I've got a couple thousand Wolf 150 grain in the locker, but I'm in the process of transitioning back to a controlled round feed 30-06 18 inch carbine for use afield.

(long story: Started working on a 300 Win Mag Ruger Hawkeye Alaskan 20 inch Barrel for a one time hunt. Well when an Old Shooting Partner and I were hashing over how to set it up, seems he had a New In The Box 30-06 Ruger Guide Gun 18 inch Barrel and he had a hankering for a semi-automatic Glock.)

I just happen to have an extra 2-10 x 36mm Weaver Tactical EMDR sitting on the bench. The laminated stock makes the Guide Gun a bit heavier than the Mini-30, but the 30-06 extends my Max Range back out to 300 Yards from the prone position and a little more weight tames the extra recoil. Range time has been a little scarce of late, but I aim to have all the workups finished before this fall.

PS: Since that first shot, jump shooting-ambush shooting, standing or prone is all important. Perhaps I'll take the time on KDR to match POA to POI on the first Clean Cold Bore Round even though I would expect a controlled round feed bolt action in 30-06 US to hold a much better grouping than a Mini-30 in 7.62 x 39 mm with Russian Quality Ammo, even if they both are Ruger Products. Neither are going to make headlines on the 1K range, but 300 yard performance is quite a bit more attainable. JMHO.

 

[wildrider666]

Very Nice. I'm an old school fan of controlled feed actions. I have a Ruger VT22-250 that's controlled feed. If you reload, you can tailor the cartridge/load to get the most accuracy from the gun. I have not seen or read good things about barrel band sling mounts when actually using a Sling for stability of your shooting position. You'll need to check that for POI shift Free and under tension.

 

[kidsoncoffee]

Very Nice. I'm an old school fan of controlled feed actions. I have a Ruger VT22-250 that's controlled feed. If you reload, you can tailor the cartridge/load to get the most accuracy from the gun. I have not seen or read good things about barrel band sling mounts when actually using a Sling for stability of your shooting position. You'll need to check that for POI shift Free and under tension.

Yeah I was wondering the same thing about the barrel sling mount when there's clearly a mount in the forward stock. That could definitely throw the barrel whip out of form and effect POI. It appears to be maybe 6" max from the stock mount so I don't know why OP would put it on the barrel. I've always been a fan of free floating, restriction free barrels, that way you can have a solid consistency when zeroing in optics and sights. The only gun I own that isn't is my marlin 336 and I've got it dialed in accordingly.

 

[wildrider666]

Barrel sling mounts were predominantly for really HEAVY RECOIL rifles were a forward stock mounted stud could injure your hand. OPs in 30-06 wouldnt be bad but its other chamberings can thump pretty good. Its kinda old school design/application but its location on the barrel actually precludes some hasty sling use because its way forward to lock your hand in and under the barrel. Gotta say this Thread is the first time I paid attention to this rifle and I really like the looks of it and need to do some research on it.

 

[M118LR]

Ruger® Hawkeye® Guide Gun Bolt-Action Rifle Model 47118

www.ruger.com

Using the Old Dental Floss method, I can definitely say that the barrel on the Guide Gun isn't free floating. But I'm not certain if the contact point is deliberate (barrel vibration dampening) or just off the rack lack of QA fitting. Nowhere in Rugers specifications does it mention aluminum bedding blocks or free floating barrel. Long ago Safari Style Rifles were purposely built to have a contact point with the stock when equipped with a barrel band. The sling stud on the foregrip is removable, and it's installed to allow easy mounting of a Harris Bipod for Bench Workups.

The 300 Win Mag Alaskan (same setup) didn't change POA-POI from the forestock mounted swivel bipod on the bench to the "Hasty" on the sling mounted barrel band. But Y'all are correct in reminding me that this must be checked for once bench work ups are complete. I personally set the forward loop on the Turner Sling so that I can just slip my support arm into it and "Bobs your uncle" immediate (not exactly form perfect) your in a "Hasty". In the field there aren't any Judges to reduce your score for improper sling placement, and while the Gunny words may still echo in my memories, it works "Good enough for non-Government work!" LOL.

She is a "purty lil thing ain't she?" Thanks for mentioning it wildrider666.
It's hard not to scratch the itch waiting to take her afield.....LOL

 

[wildrider666]

You definitely moved up the scale with those two on offhand shooting weight and recoil compared to your Mini 30 preference! Since that rifle is provide with an equivalent weight muzzle device (plus the minimal thread protector) to replace the muzzle compensator for maintaining " Barrel Harmonics and Zero": odds are the barrel is "Set" with a pressure point. Breakdown will show the bedding method and contact points.

I don't mess with bedding unless its a last resort necessity. I just make sure its torqued down correctly, clean then work the ammo/reloads. If it comes down to it, I'll use use paper shims to move the forward contact point looking for a sweet spot. If that fails I'll use layers of aluminium tape to shim it ever so slightly to temporarily float the barrel looking for improvement. Hunting guns don't get the same love as BR/LR rifles get. Lol

 

[M118LR]

You have just hit on the crust of the bisque.
Ruger has no torque specifications that they will pass along to thier customers.
As I found with the Mini-30 all torque specifications need to be worked out with every load by the purchaser. Buyer beware!
Perhaps we see things wrong way round? If I wasn't proficient with precision equipment I'd have never attempted to make a Mini-30 a One Shot Stop Capable @ 150 yards or less.
If I didn't have the Government Experience torquing all the Badger Ordnance Manufactured parts to Remington Rifles, I'd have never come up with the SWAG's to allow me to get close enough to required performance on any Ruger Product. There is a reason why you don't hear about a Ruger Product running away with all the trophies in any competition.
Please don't read me wrong, the Ruger Guide Gun is a "Maryann" it ain't "Ginger" like a Pre-64 Winchester. But point blank range on iron sighted 30-06/308 Win Class cartridges is 300 Yards, so 3MOA can be expected of even the worst of Military Firearms in that class. 3 MOA is probably more accurate than 99% of all shooters can accomplish Offhand at 300 yards, that's why it ain't a Military requirement. JMHO.
Aluminium Bedding Blocks have made composite bedding on all but the most accurate of precision rifles a secondary requirement on .308 Win / 30-06 Class firearms, 300 Win Mag and Greater still display a rather marked improvement at max range with such meticulous attention to detail. JMHO.

Bull Barreled, Air gauged, Bedded, Free Floating, Blue Printed, Lapped & Trued Actions may not be needed to fill the freezer at point blank range, but they don't hurt! They just may be a mite heavy to tote afield for Non-Government Work! JMHO.

I'm not sure that I can harvest anything more than I've harvested before with a .308 Win Model 7 Remington Carbine around the Globe, but I may feel more comfortable with tooth & claw game inside of 300 yards with a controlled round feed Mauser extraction system. JMHO.

 

[wildrider666]

Since stocks are wood, plastics or composites, we cant use standard fastener torque values unless the stock has fastener hole liners/spacers the full depth from stock to action. I've never been a fan of "snug down + 1/4 turn type instructions. However, when the "spec" is so sloppy I apply a line of Torque Seal (it's also called Slip Mark) from fastener center cross and onto the base surface. It will tell you if its too loose and slips on recoil or handling. If the tightness slips or loosens: the marked lines breaks and allignment is off. I do the same slip marking on scope fasteners, you know at a glance if theirs a problem.

I agree the rest of your last comments. I haven't read up on your O6 Guide gun but it kept entering my thoughts. You should save yourself some work and sell it to me, I can replace your Glock with a new one. Lol

 

[M118LR]

Since stocks are wood, plastics or composites, we cant use standard fastener torque values unless the stock has fastener hole liners/spacers the full depth from stock to action. I've never been a fan of "snug down + 1/4 turn type instructions. However, when the "spec" is so sloppy I apply a line of Torque Seal (it's also called Slip Mark) from fastener center cross and onto the base surface. It will tell you if its too loose and slips on recoil or handling. If the tightness slips or loosens: the marked lines breaks and allignment is off. I do the same slip marking on scope fasteners, you know at a glance if theirs a problem.

I agree the rest of your last comments. I haven't read up on your O6 Guide gun but it kept entering my thoughts. You should save yourself some work and sell it to me, I can replace your Glock with a new one. Lol

LMOA. I've got a couple more Glocks. LOL.

The best recommendation that I have is to start at the lowest setting of a inch pound torque wrench and work your way up slowly until you can annotate the factory settings prior to disassembly. Theoretically this should allow you to get back to factory torques if nothing else. Ruger was so shy about torque specifications that they wouldn't even give values for ring to dovetail or ring torque to hold the scope. Eventually I just used the same torque specs for Badger Ring to rail (55) & Scope bolts of (22). Nothing came loose or became deformed in over 5K rounds, so unless Ruger is more forthcoming with torque specifications nowadays, I'll probably double check Badger Ordinances specs and use them again. Seems that the torque figures for aluminium bedding blocks run from 50 to Government Standard of 65 which probably should be treated like a MAX LOAD when reloading, work up slowly and it's okay to stop before the max. JMHO.

 

[Gator1067]

I prefer to set my scope cold bore shots for my farthest average shot and set my zero at 100yd for the distance. For instance my .243 is set 1.5 high at 100 puts It on at 200 and still with in kill zone from 250-300. The below is my ruger American .243 with a leupold 3x9x50 at 200 yards shooting .95 grain hornady precision hunters. I always sight in off sand bags with 5 shot groups. I do not like vises. Sorry don’t know as much technical description as many on here and there is a wealth of knowledge on this forum.

 

[M118LR]

Now I'm a little "into my cup" so if I'm a bit confused please bear with me while I work this out.
Your POA-POI on your cold bore shot is at your furthest average shot which is 200 yards, which makes that your Zero?
At 100 yards you know that you need to hold under 1.5 inches so that your cold bores POA-POI match?
Your not sure how much you need to hold over at 250 & 300 yards to make your cold bore POA-POI match the Zero you have set?

Or... are you explaining that with a 200 yard zero your projectile doesn't go above or below 8 inches out to 300 yards so hold over hold under isn't of consequence?

So can you place your cold bore dead center at 100,200,250,& 300 yards? Or is it just dead center at 200 yards and all the other ranges are within Point Blank Range and it's of no consequence?

 

[Gator1067]

Lol. The second one. With a cold bore zero at 200 it will be plus or minus for hunting purposes from 50 to 300. Thank your for putting it into the words I was lacking. Been a long day. Criminals don’t believe in taking a break for corona only talking advantage.

 

[M118LR]

My pleasure.
Keep locking them up.
Now all you have to look forward to is figuring out how much you shall need to hold over to ensure that your cold bore can impact dead center at 250 & 300 yards. LOL

 

[kidsoncoffee]

Sorry don’t know as much technical description as many on here and there is a wealth of knowledge on this forum.

Brother you ain't lying. I've gotten SO much gained knowledge from this forum. I'd be dead in the water on half my builds and reloading if I weren't able to pick the brains of these folks on here. Now if I could just stop pissing them off long enough in the political posts, I might even make a few more friends out of the bunch. Haha

 

[Gator1067]

Religion and politics will do it every time. I have a tv but nothings hooked to it. This is my only social media.. I like to look at the world From the woods Through cross hairs one casing at a time or with friends and family with as minimal crowds as possible.

 

[kidsoncoffee]

Religion and politics will do it every time. I have a tv but nothings hooked to it. This is my only social media.. I like to look at the world From the woods Through cross hairs one casing at a time or with friends and family with as minimal crowds as possible.

You're living what I'm striving to do. One of these days. Just gotta convince the womern to want to do it too. I've made a vow after this week to not speak a word about politics or anything else controversial on here. I enjoy the members' company, wisdom, advice, and humor. I'd rather not alienate anyone over my own dumbass views of the world. I'm happy you're living the dream sir.

 

[Gator1067]

I see the worst of human nature and what man kind is capable of. When I don't have to be reminded of it I don't. Some one once asked me if I could get anything back from the profession I chose what would it be. I told them that's easy. I'd take back my innocents of what the world we live in is truly like. As for the wife I'm in the same boat. She loves social media. I tell her I guess it has it's place( This forum. lol) but when she talks about something she read in the news, government or other countries. I just tell her I don't care what the wolf does in the woods that's his home but when he comes to my front door I'll do what ever I need to protect the herd. Sorry for getting off topic for a second.

 

[Gator1067]

My pleasure.
Keep locking them up.
Now all you have to look forward to is figuring out how much you shall need to hold over to ensure that your cold bore can impact dead center at 250 & 300 yards. LOL

LOL. I only worry about true MOA impact when sighting in. At 250 to 300 cross hairs lined even across the top of the shoulder and straight down the leg will fill the freezer every time. Don't get me wrong I am OCD about precision and clean shots just dont take the tape measure to the woods with me.

 

[wildrider666]

Another "Zero" choice for Hunters? When we consider the size of the games kill zone, cartridge ballistics, gear and potential engagement distance (brush to prairie, which also impacts shot prep time): a 100 yard Zero might not be the most advantageous. Distances are often overestimated and measurement takes time, Holdovers may not be precisely "guesses"and Scope adjustments take time. All the while the game animal is doing its thing and likely reducing you shot window of opportunity.

A "Point Blank Zero" (PBZ) based on muzzle velocity/ballistic charts (and confirmed on the Range) may provide a faster shot response to presented opertunities. Rather than rehash detail here you can review the Link below. You can work out a PBZ for any cartridge using the projectile velocity trajectory data and keeping the projectile rise and fall within the size of the animals kill zone. We can also see that PBZ at its maximum ranges are realistically within general hunter limits of proficiency if we discount the "Once upon a time" stories. Lol

Make faster Hits and Improve Marksmanship with Your Point Blank Zero

The point blank zero, also called maximum point blank range, or battlesight zero, is a tool for achieving faster hits on target. But it takes some math...

www.everydaymarksman.co

 

[Gator1067]

With my 6.5 Creedmoor 143 grain precision hunters I set up at 100 yards and then put targets at 200 300 400 yards. I will zero at 100 and shoot each out to 400 for point of impact and adjust accordingly. The set up I use is at +2" high at 100 which is -7" at 400 and almost dead center at 30 yards. That is actual numbers which does not coincide with the ballistics chart from Hornady. Its a Browning x bolt 26" long range with Leopold 4x12x50. I also set up several firearms for where I will be hunting. My FL rifles are zeroed for dead on at 100 while my Indiana rifles are set for anything out to 400 with minimal hold over if any and no moa adjustment needed. Average shots are between 200 to 300 yards. When I leave FL its 80 degrees when I get to Indiana it's 18 degrees or lower. I've found its almost pointless to zero a rifle in FL then expect to go hunt up there with that wide range of temperature. I do not use mildot scopes just heavy duplex cross hairs. I know there is a wide variety of ways to set up a rig for long range hunting and many variables. This method just works for me.