Long Range Shooting

[M.O.A.]

What if its High tide with a full moon?

Then its time to go fishing and drink beer. Lol

 

[joe]

Now days you can get custom scope turrets tailored to your specific loads.

Range finder says 700 turn dial to 700 estimate wind. Make wind adjustments pull trigger. :tongue1: Still nice to understand the basics.

I would like to try a few shots at those kinds of distance but it is definitely above my skill level. I don't get why the military & f class still use the 308. There are way better rounds out there.

Do you guys think F Class will every allow other rounds? 308 & 223

 

[M.O.A.]

Now days you can get custom scope turrets tailored to your specific loads.

Range finder says 700 turn dial to 700 estimate wind. Make wind adjustments pull trigger. :tongue1: Still nice to understand the basics.

I would like to try a few shots at those kinds of distance but it is definitely above my skill level. I don't get why the military & f class still use the 308. There are way better rounds out there.

Do you guys think F Class will every allow other rounds? 308 & 223

Better rounds in what way ? Normal engagement distances on soft targets do not require a magnum round. For extended ranges out past effective .30 cal there is always artillery or an airstrike. Basically its the fact that a .308 rifle platform weighs around 9 lbs. A .338 is around 15 and a .50 is upwards of 20 lb. Ammo weight per round and the physical dimension of the rifle platform are also factors. For basic Target engagement under normal combat conditions or general hunting use, a lightweight rifle sending a 165-168 gr projectile is adequate. Extreme range shots fall into 2 categories 1) psychological warfare or 2) cause ya can. Disagree at will.

 

[CCHGN]

Heck, I use a fish finder on my kayak, gadgets are my thing. IMO, after spending a couple thousand building a rifle and hundreds more on ammo, a range finder is no problem...lol

The lesson on harmonics says that the hand load is to tune the round to the rifle whip. Is it just about velocity? Doesn't more velocity = more pressure?

 

[joe]

Better rounds in what way ? Normal engagement distances on soft targets do not require a magnum round. For extended ranges out past effective .30 cal there is always artillery or an airstrike. Basically its the fact that a .308 rifle platform weighs around 9 lbs. A .338 is around 15 and a .50 is upwards of 20 lb. Ammo weight per round and the physical dimension of the rifle platform are also factors. For basic Target engagement under normal combat conditions or general hunting use, a lightweight rifle sending a 165-168 gr projectile is adequate. Extreme range shots fall into 2 categories 1) psychological warfare or 2) cause ya can. Disagree at will.

Never thought about weight but it make since. I have no reason to disagree I was just curious as to why.

In my ignorant mind the 6.5 & 7mm bullets ballistically outperform the 30 cal unless you push it to magnum levels. Even then the 7mm can do it with less recoil. I do not however have any proof of this to show as all the ballistics I have seen end at 500 yrds. Its probably just cause I like the 7mm bullets. LOL It seems like a great compromise between heavy & light bullets.

 

[M.O.A.]

Without writing a book on the subject its all about cross sectional density and B.C. 30 cal tends to retain more energy at range and wind drift less than a 6.8 or 7mm. recoil is a given due to the laws of physics. I'm sure this will annoy the 6.8 fans but 80% of a .308 is still leaving 20% on the table and is just a recycled wildcat from the 60's. Granted its an improvement over a 5.56 but that's not saying much. Lol

 

[wildrider666]

Heck, I use a fish finder on my kayak, gadgets are my thing. IMO, after spending a couple thousand building a rifle and hundreds more on ammo, a range finder is no problem...lol

The lesson on harmonics says that the hand load is to tune the round to the rifle whip. Is it just about velocity? Doesn't more velocity = more pressure?

Some shooters love to burn all the powder they can fit in the case and strive for max MV. In most cases they are just wasting money, you know them; they brag about how their handgun or rifle kicks and want you to feel the pain too. To each his own. HOWEVER, Best accuracy is normally achieved several percent BELOW max MV. This is true with magnums too!

MV and Chamber pressure are related. You can blow up a gun with too much powder AND to little also.

 

[CCHGN]

Some shooters love to burn all the powder they can fit in the case and strive for max MV. In most cases they are just wasting money, you know them; they brag about how their handgun or rifle kicks and want you to feel the pain too. To each his own. HOWEVER, Best accuracy is normally achieved several percent BELOW max MV. This is true with magnums too!

MV and Chamber pressure are related. You can blow up a gun with too much powder AND to little also.

The "varmitAl" article said that FASTER burning powder is desirable, to get the bullet out the barrel faster.

Also, from what I read(and the vid), the point to hand load, to strive to find the load that "fits their rifle", meaning, produces the most consistant accuracy. The info says that it's the load that puts the bullet out the muzzle at it's "node" (point of no vibration or whip) point.

 

[wildrider666]

The "varmitAl" article said that FASTER burning powder is desirable, to get the bullet out the barrel faster.

Also, from what I read(and the vid), the point to hand load, to strive to find the load that "fits their rifle", meaning, produces the most consistant accuracy. The info says that it's the load that puts the bullet out the muzzle at it's "node" (point of no vibration or whip) point.

Reloading info could fill its own thread. You do want a fast burning powder but you also want to be close to a full case too. Pop open any good reloading book, pick a cal, then look at the dif powders, charge weights and burn rates.

You will sure be able to tell if accuracy is getting better and you can call it your "Node" meter. Lol

 

[SAWMAN]

Couple of things ---> Faster burning powder is not used to produce faster velocities or to "get the bullet out of the bbl faster". It is simply used for efficiency in getting the most for bbl length vs the bullet weight.

And.....It is arguable that the 6.8SPC,even SPC II is 80% of the 308Win. More like 70% IMO, and reading the ballistics tables that are not skewed. I own a 6.8SPC II (6.8X43)and absolutely love it. It is a great chambering for the AR platform. However,I am not out to convince others that it is a "do all" round as others are. If you want the velocities of a 270Win.......buy a 270Win. If you want a great hog killer and deer killer(I have killed multiples of both with my gun)it will certainly be up to the task. --- SAWMAN

 

[M.O.A.]

For what its worth.. between myself and everyone I shoot with and share reloading data with we have loaded and shot just about every combination of powder,primer,projectile possible out of a .243 25-06, 30-06, .308, and a few other calibers. One thing seems to be pretty clear out of the data..CONSISTENCY. it doesn't matter if you're shooting a .22-250 or a .338 lapua, if you do the same thing every time the projectile will go to the same place every time. The group of 10 shots that I posted pictures of in my REM 700 build thread came from individually weighed and measured bullets fired from cases that were exactly the same. Powder charge, flash holes and primers were also identical within my ability to measure. The barrel was also measured to be cold bore each time a shot was fired and patched between rounds. Consistency translates to repeatable results which translates to " accuracy" whatever that word means.

 

[SAWMAN]

For extreme accuracy you can surely do some things that will not guarantee extreme accuracy,however will certainly help and never hurt. The below are some of the things that I do. Reloading for me is ...... a hobby.

* Sort all brass by case head stamp
* Weigh all brass to within 2% of total weights.
* De-burr flash holes
* Square primer pockets
* Use CCI BR primers
* Weigh all powder charges on a digital scale and double checked on a RCBS 10-10 scale. Use same lots of powder.
* Weigh all bullets and sort to within .5 grain. Use premium bullets. I use Berger.
* I put a very light crimp on all bullets.
* I use a loaded bullet concentricity gauge (NECO). Bullet run-out has got to be within .003" or they are set aside.

I do not go thru this process for most of my reloads. The above is typically NOT hunting loads. Using the above procedure I have gotten some extremely small groups out of several of my guns. The above is actually a small part of extreme accuracy. The gun AND the shooter have to be up to the task ..... and.....the WX has to cooperate. --- SAWMAN

 

[Chaos]

So I finally got up with John AKA..MOA and had my first real experience shooting long distance. Man was it fun! I personally have never shot much over three hundred yards before and we stretched it out to 900 yds with my Ruger M77 Tactical 308. I can tell you as I watch MOA drive his truck down the field to set up targets I was feeling a little nervous, hell I could barley see him when he stuck in the 800 and 900 ones, and as he drove back I was thinking there is no way I will hit those targets. But John knows his stuff and before to long I was gaining some confidence as we worked our way out past 500 yds. It's really cool to be able to hit something with consistency at those ranges beyond 500 and my hats are off to you guys that do it with great accuracy. I know with some practice I will improve, but here are some targets I shot today. First one is at 700 yds, one with out any writing is the 800 and the 900 yds is circled. Thanks to a great coach and someone that can take the time to teach you what and why things are doing what they are, my hats off to John...Let me tell you, he is one hell of a shot! I look forward to my next chance to go long! What a blast!

 

[Pompnewbie]

Not sure if you guys have watched these or not.. but the guy has a awesome series on youtube covering everything related to LRS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwG-D0HjCBQ

 

[M.O.A.]

Excellent marksmanship sir. All I did was spot and run the math. It was my pleasure to have you out and actually see someone take the shot instead of talking about it. Love the Ruger rifle. Definitely one of the best factory guns I have ever tried. Let me know when you're ready to go to 1k.

 

[Chaos]

LOL, polishing brass now!

 

[Crazydoc68]

So I finally got up with John AKA..MOA and had my first real experience shooting long distance. Man was it fun! I personally have never shot much over three hundred yards before and we stretched it out to 900 yds with my Ruger M77 Tactical 308. I can tell you as I watch MOA drive his truck down the field to set up targets I was feeling a little nervous, hell I could barley see him when he stuck in the 800 and 900 ones, and as he drove back I was thinking there is no way I will hit those targets. But John knows his stuff and before to long I was gaining some confidence as we worked our way out past 500 yds. It's really cool to be able to hit something with consistency at those ranges beyond 500 and my hats are off to you guys that do it with great accuracy. I know with some practice I will improve, but here are some targets I shot today. First one is at 700 yds, one with out any writing is the 800 and the 900 yds is circled. Thanks to a great coach and someone that can take the time to teach you what and why things are doing what they are, my hats off to John...Let me tell you, he is one hell of a shot! I look forward to my next chance to go long! What a blast!

I felt the same way. Could barely see the target in my 16x scope. But john and myself did the math and worked out amazingly. John is definitely one of the "good guys". Took a whole day to show me how to reload and then shoot till it was almost dark outside!

 

[bluedsteel]

This has been an interesting conversation. To simplify it, what it really comes down to is getting the right action for the job and having it built up with the best components you can afford--barrel, stock and trigger are key, built by a good smith.

Then load development. Find that sweet spot for the bullet seating depth vs. powder type vs. charge and with a high quality barrel like the cut rifled Kriegers and you may not have to chase the lands for the life of the barrel to maintain accuracy. Faster powders are not necessarily better since you want you powder to burn the length of the barrel, too fast and you can cause over pressure blow primers or expand primer pockets (gas going backwards is never good, right?).

You can buy the best glass in the world, but that won't make you a better shooter. That takes a lot of trigger time, dry and live fire. Your trigger finger can have a more detrimental effect most of the time.

I love to shoot NRA Mid-Range matches (600 yards) with a Compass Lake built NM AR and I know that my rifle, Krieger SS barrel (Frank White contour and chamber), floated, match iron sights and a Geiselle NM trigger can shoot inside MOA at 600 yards with well prepped LC brass, CCI BR4, N540 and an 80gr sierra. A simple rifle built with the best components. I do have lead weight in the front and rear bringing the rifle in at about 15lbs.

LR competition is a whole different animal since that last 400 yards can be very interesting when the wind blows outside the constant. Traveling to matches and the nationals at Camp Perry, I have had the opportunity to shoot with the best Civ and MiL shooters and they will gladly answer questions--they are amazing to watch. Especially when the wind starts to get switchy. Bullet traces heading toward the next target and then back to their own is pretty cool to watch!

From the sounds of this conversation we have some good people here willing to help out others too. That's great for the sport!

 

[barebones1]

Finally going on vacation! Going to stretch her legs out on the farm. Looking good @100 probably have to change the load for 500 yds plus.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[fl57caveman]

Finally going on vacation! Going to stretch her legs out on the farm. Looking good @100 probably have to change the load for 500 yds plus.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

nice....what is the glass?