Glock 43 / 9 mm + p+ ?

[maxfold]

Safe to shoot in G 43 ,9 mm +p+ buffalo bore ?

 

[SAWMAN]

The laws of deminishing returns comes into play here. Small gun,small grip,repo the hand after every shot.
To me,standard pressure loads would be better.
Faster hits . . More accurate hits,etc.
BUT . . . ?? ---- SAWMAN

 

[maxfold]

Mornin , yes older friend bought +p+ 147 grn Buffalo Bore and asked . What I thought so you can but should he . Thanks be safe .

 

[OldMan]

Safe to shoot in G 43 ,9 mm +p+ buffalo bore ?

Me...ONCE IS ENOUGH..in other words..
OHHHHHHHHHELLNO

but safe...? probably.

 

[maxfold]

Thanks older friend bought and thought about this , looking for info , now I tell him today . Ouch is too much

 

[SAWMAN]

Unless he is a work hard everyday older farmer,as you get older your forearm and grip strength gets somewhat weaker. Guns that shot easy for you (me) in the past become harder to control. Just a fact of life.
I thought briefly about a 43 as my "old man" gun but after some research chose a 42.
I would rather be able to put 3rds COM fast and accurate than 2rds of 9mm.
I would think that the 43 COULD handle a non steady diet of the hot stuff if that is his choice. Might think about a spring change also which would increase the effects of recoil. A question would be . . . how many rds will be fired pre carry,how many rds per year training,cost and availability of ammo,etc. --- SAWMAN

 

[maxfold]

He is old school strong but yes , older age is showing up , Decent price local buy but more than he will like . Will recommend, Hornsby xtp’s in stock near me ! Thanks

 

[OldMan]

He is old school strong but yes , older age is showing up , Decent price local buy but more than he will like . Will recommend, Hornsby xtp’s in stock near me ! Thanks

I hate recoil...small hands and wrists.. yadayada.... I find that the 40 gr Liberty are very easy to shoot and my ccammo. 1800 fps or so.

 

[FrommerStop]

I shoot Federal +P+ 115 gr in my G19 and it is not a big deal in that gun. In the smaller subcompacts i would likely go for standard loads, except if I was dealing with bears and hogs. Then I would use the buffalo bore.

 

[FrommerStop]

Unless he is a work hard everyday older farmer,as you get older your forearm and grip strength gets somewhat weaker. Guns that shot easy for you (me) in the past become harder to control. Just a fact of life.
I thought briefly about a 43 as my "old man" gun but after some research chose a 42.
I would rather be able to put 3rds COM fast and accurate than 2rds of 9mm.
I would think that the 43 COULD handle a non steady diet of the hot stuff if that is his choice. Might think about a spring change also which would increase the effects of recoil. A question would be . . . how many rds will be fired pre carry,how many rds per year training,cost and availability of ammo,etc. --- SAWMAN

Muscle strength is a factor as you age. My observations of the men that I grew with that lived to their early 90's is that up to the age of about 85 you can be reasonably fit, assuming you were physically active. I started back to doing burpees a few at time and will build it back up. My hands are forearms and back of the legs are little sore from dragging limbs and stacking them yesterday. No rain today and I can finally get some work done.
I am switching to braced AR pistols for my fighting weapons, viewing them as easier to handle than my AKs and my battle rifles. For pistols if one has problems with their hands, subcompact weapons in larger calibers like 9x19 is maybe not the best idea. A medium pistol with moderate recoil is what is needed.
Getting old is hard, but it usually beats the alternative.
As I get older, I will probably get smaller dogs also. I good 35 lb pit can be a very good dog. I am in my middle 70's.

 

[skyydiver]

Also there's not much chance you get any added benefit of a +p+ from a barrel that short. The advantage is added velocity, and there's no time to get that added velocity. There are so many 9mm rounds optimized for short barrels now. Well, in theory now lol. But if that's all he has available, I'd load it up over nothing or FMJ.

 

[OldMan]

Muscle strength is a factor as you age. My observations of the men that I grew with that lived to their early 90's is that up to the age of about 85 you can be reasonably fit, assuming you were physically active. I started back to doing burpees a few at time and will build it back up. My hands are forearms and back of the legs are little sore from dragging limbs and stacking them yesterday. No rain today and I can finally get some work done.
I am switching to braced AR pistols for my fighting weapons, viewing them as easier to handle than my AKs and my battle rifles. For pistols if one has problems with their hands, subcompact weapons in larger calibers like 9x19 is maybe not the best idea. A medium pistol with moderate recoil is what is needed.
Getting old is hard, but it usually beats the alternative.
As I get older, I will probably get smaller dogs also. I good 35 lb pit can be a very good dog. I am in my middle 70's.

FROMMERSTOP

I like your belief systems and kindness towards your dogs.

IF you really want a small gamebred Pit in the future....

I would give you a BRED LIKE A RACEHORSE.. small female.
Only condition... Let it be dual purpose..house,yard. Socialize and Train as she will be like 5 dogs in the body of one..
and..IF too much ,,back to me to care for and place.

A lap dog extrodianaire, kill dog to her bones.

On occasion I have a litter and first dibs goes to what I call GOODKARMA homes..

Like I believe yours to be.

 

[FrommerStop]

FROMMERSTOP

I like your belief systems and kindness towards your dogs.

IF you really want a small gamebred Pit in the future....

I would give you a BRED LIKE A RACEHORSE.. small female.
Only condition... Let it be dual purpose..house,yard. Socialize and Train as she will be like 5 dogs in the body of one..
and..IF too much ,,back to me to care for and place.

A lap dog extrodianaire, kill dog to her bones.

On occasion I have a litter and first dibs goes to what I call GOODKARMA homes..

Like I believe yours to be.

A most kind offer. Right now I will wait until my current females reach the end of their life spans. There is no way they would tolerate another female around.
A well bred small pit can be a treasure. But they do require training and normally are quite trainable. The white english that I currently run do not require much training and frankly do not like to be told what to do lol. Submissive and ferocious, sort of like dr jekyl and mr hyde. At one time the lady ultimately responsible for the breed stock for my dogs was trying to produce a pit size white english of say 30-40 lbs, but she could not get the temperament right after the cross breeding to american bulldogs. Some of her females are in the 55-60 lbs range when mature and she is happy with that wt. My females are in the 70-95 lbs range. My young male will likely fill out to plus 100 lbs.

 

[boatbum101]

Fed +P+ 115 JHP 9BPLE load aka " Illinois State Police " load while old school tech bullet wise is effective on lightly clothed felonious bipeds . Colder seasons & winter clothes I'd opt for more penetration . For social work I'd prefer a steel frame or a Glock for that load . Sub compact it's too much of a good thing . Like the +P 185 Rem GS 45acp load you want a larger gun . I can't comment on 9mm 147gr loads , no experience with them . Just recently became viable thru new bullet designs . 9mm has never lacked for penetration , but like a 357 mag 125 JHP velocity & violent expansion with enough penetration to get the job done don't hurt . I generally use one of the 124 +P JHP LE loads either Fed HST Tact LE , Speer GD or Win Ranger T . FWIW the Fed 115 JHP std press 9mm load is fairly accurate if one doesn't want to deal with recoil in a smaller gun .

 

[FrommerStop]

Fed +P+ 115 JHP 9BPLE load aka " Illinois State Police " load while old school tech bullet wise is effective on lightly clothed felonious bipeds . Colder seasons & winter clothes I'd opt for more penetration . For social work I'd prefer a steel frame or a Glock for that load . Sub compact it's too much of a good thing . Like the +P 185 Rem GS 45acp load you want a larger gun . I can't comment on 9mm 147gr loads , no experience with them . Just recently became viable thru new bullet designs . 9mm has never lacked for penetration , but like a 357 mag 125 JHP velocity & violent expansion with enough penetration to get the job done don't hurt . I generally use one of the 124 +P JHP LE loads either Fed HST Tact LE , Speer GD or Win Ranger T . FWIW the Fed 115 JHP std press 9mm load is fairly accurate if one doesn't want to deal with recoil in a smaller gun .

Here are responses from people with on the street experience From warrior talk. Several of these people call themselves Nobody for job related reasons.

I do have a fair amount of experience with the Fed 115grn +P+ loads. Honestly, I use them in my non-RMR’d full size pistols, especially in my Beretta 92. In that gun, it is approaching 357 SIG velocities and I have found it to be accurate.

In my SI Guns, I have had much better luck using the Speer Gold Dot 124 +P. I have found it to be accurate and effective well out beyond 100 yards. The same cannot be said for the non+P versions. The non+P does not adequately perform in a G19 sized pistol and should be considered marginal in a G17 length barrel. Unfortunately, this is corroborated by real life shootings in which center chest hits resulted in readily survivable wounds.

In short, drive it as fast as you can. The SI Match barrels seem to be more accurate with the 124 grain ammunition. I have seen no “additional wear” after shooting thousands and thousands of +P+ loads, assuming you care for your Springs and do some simple inspections.

_______Nobody

The +P+ stuff was the choice when bullet design and selection was limited. Today with the specific-for-shooting-humans ammo available...the +P+ stuff is not as important. As a matter of historical note, we used the Winchester +P+ 115 JHP back in the old days. It was marked LE Only and all that jazz and I cracked three S&W 5906 frames and one SIG P226 frame in as many years shooting them.

I agree with _______ on the 124 Gold Dot. A good alternative is the Black Hills 115 JHP (Barnes Bullet ...same as the old DPX).

_____Nobody is right in that the 124 +P GDHP is excellent. The non-+P version, combined with Glock 19 barrel length, resulted in non-fatal COM hits with zero expansion in a shooting one of my sergeants had.

We’re going to be a 9mm-only agency very soon and unless ammunition changes the continued non-expansion will persist. Do not mistake this as an issue as even non-expansion is mitigated by proper placement.

For those who are interested, non-expansion was one of the reasons we went to 5.7 for certain tasks - tumbling and not expansion is the method used by this round.

Last edited by ____________Nobody

The above men are talking from experience and one can not argue with that.
For now I am using Fed +P+, when I can find it I would like to get some speer +P 124 gr gold dot. Eventually I would like to get some ammo with the copper barnes bullet.

 

[Duckyou]

I have run a few thousand +p+ through a Glock 19 and a few thousand more rounds since then. No issues.

It will not hurt it.

 

[FrommerStop]

I have run a few thousand +p+ through a Glock 19 and a few thousand more rounds since then. No issues.

It will not hurt it.

It is suggested that one follow a reasonable schedule of spring replacement.

 

[Duckyou]

It is suggested that one follow a reasonable schedule of spring replacement.

I will replace the springs at some point (have them in my bag).

 

[M118LR]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the Old 200 Grain 38 Special load that was coveted for snub nosed revolvers? .357 vice .355, aliebt I'm a big bore fan but, when barrel length dictates velocity projectile weight evens the scales of performance. I've a bit of experience with 147 grain .355 loadings. Your 3 inch barrel is going to produce subsonic velocities so why overlook the subsonic proven performers of the long past?

.38 Special - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[FrommerStop]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the Old 200 Grain 38 Special load that was coveted for snub nosed revolvers? .357 vice .355, aliebt I'm a big bore fan but, when barrel length dictates velocity projectile weight evens the scales of performance. I've a bit of experience with 147 grain .355 loadings. Your 3 inch barrel is going to produce subsonic velocities so why overlook the subsonic proven performers of the long past?

.38 Special - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The very long .38spl 200 gr bullet when fired in a snub nose revolver does pretty much what the british 38/200 load of what would be a .38 smith and wesson case with 200 grain bullet at about 620 fps. Tumble is what it did.

Wiki

he Enfield No. 2 was a British top-break revolver using the .38/200 round manufactured from 1932 to 1957 ..
] By using a long, heavy, round-nosed lead bullet in a .38 calibre cartridge, it was found that the bullet, being minimally stabilised for its weight and calibre, tended to 'keyhole' or tumble longitudinally when striking an object, theoretically increasing wounding and stopping ability of human targets at short ranges.[6][7] At the time, the .38 calibre Smith & Wesson cartridge with 200-grain (13 g) lead bullet, known as the .38/200, was also a popular cartridge in civilian and police use (in the USA, the .38/200 or 380/200 was known as the .38 Super Police load).[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfield_No._2#cite_note-Barnes,_Frank_C._1989_p._239-7

Muzzle velocity	620 ft/s (189 m/s)