Day 2 reloading for Ruger American Ranch Rifle 7.62x39

[Daezee]

Yesterday was disappointing in that my RARR didn't like frangible bullets, so today let's try jacketed with 2 different primers and powders and try some steel case FMJ rounds for control groups, Wolf and Academy Sports. Goal: Accurate "plinking" ammo. All groups shot at 50 yards keeping with my vision ability. All groups measured center to center. All rounds 2.2" oal.

Primers: CCI 400 in small primer Remington brass and Winchester large rifle in other brass.
Bullets: Pulled 123gr FMJ. Make unknown, but suspect it could be pulled from USGI 7.62x39 made during Vietnam War, considering where I got them from. No steel in core or jacket. Remnants of tar sealant left on bullets. Occasional light pull mark, but nothing to worry about. Crimping groove, but I didn't crimp.
Powders: AA1680 and H335.

Academy marked ammo easily outshot Wolf, giving .64" vs .96". Bigger flash and recoil than my reloads. Stickier extraction than my brass case reloads. Typical Academy 5 shot group:

CCI small rifle primers in Remington brass and AA1680 powder gave about one "hang fire" or "click bang" per group with the hang fire round 1 1/2" - 2" low out of the group. Black soot on outside of brass even with the heaviest load tried. Groups tended to string vertically. Here's a typical group with the low hang fire flyer:

CCI small rifle and Winchester large rifle gave no hang fires with H335. All H335 loads were compressed. No soot on outside of fired brass. Tried 31, 32, and 33 grains. Nothing shot bad in that all groups were 1" or less. 32 grain was the best. Here's a 32 grain group. As a side note, this group actually contained 4 brands of brass to see if mixing brands had an adverse affect on group size at a distance I might shoot at.

The CCI 400 w/AA1680 hang fires was very surprising, as I use the same primers and powder in subsonic Blackout reloads with no problems (Blackout does use a 220 grain bullet vs the 123 grain being used in the 7.62x39). Winchester large rifle primers were not tried with AA1680 in the 7.62x39. Limited testing of CCI 400 vs Winchester large rifle and H335 showed bullets going into the same group

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

.311? or .308 bullets??

 

[Daezee]

After zeroing my Midway micrometer, I measured 7 of the 7.62x39 fmj pulls. Reading between the lines where needed, I got:

.310, .310, .3085, .309, .309, .3093, .3099

Taking weight of 5 and averaging, I got 123.7 grains

The company selling these pulls (Hi Tech) would not tell me their origin (normally they've been very open with me, but not on these bullets), but since they have tar sealant, Hi Tech has demilled other ammo for the U.S., no steel in the bullets, and why the heck would a U.S. company be demilling foreign made 7.62x39, I felt they could be from USGI AK ammo. They sold out years ago and per the owner never had a "large" amount of them; a group of us bought thousands (heck, we might have bought them all) in a bulk buy. From my friend's estate, I sold a few thousand on the forum...should've bought them myself.

My die set has expanders for both .308 and .31x bullets. I'm using the .308 expander as smaller bullets are not always held securely when the larger expander is used. No known problems using the .308 expander and larger bullets (no case bulges, no problem seating the bullets).

Trivia: Running 58 frangible bullets through the new bore of the RARR, advanced (wore) the rifling/throat about .016" (more correctly would be that it wore off any rough edges left from the manufacturing process; i.e., broke in the bbl). Frangibles are softer than jacketed. Cleaning the bore and then shooting 43 jacketed bullets this morning, there was no more measurable rifling wear with the gages I have. Unless they've changed, Ruger uses CHF 4140 steel with no chrome lining or nitride treatment in these basic rifles. The bbl is free floated the entire length in my example with no bbl touching the stock.

Here's what the bullets look like other than many of mine have tar sealant remnants:

7.62x39 pulls

 

[Oldergeek]

Daezee, this is very good information. I really appreciate you taking the time to post it this way. I'm building an AR version of this and plan to do my own reloading as well. Looking forward to more good information.

The 'hang-fire' issue is certainly a strange one.

I've seen different primer sizes (mag vs standard) make a very large difference in both directions. I.E. my most accurate 300 WinMag load by far uses standard primers. That said, I probably would not have though about trying mag primers in a stubby little case like this. Learned a lesson from you on that

 

[Daezee]

Out of 4 groups shot with CCI 400/1680, 3 groups each had 1 click bang and each hit low. Neither powder nor primers were what I'd consider "old" and the primers popped off the H335 just fine. Outside temp was in the 40's.

 

[Daezee]

Not having our family Christmas until 3pm, so I had time to fiddle around, chronographing various primers in my 32gr H335 load listed above. Didn't do my normal 5 shot chronographing, but did 2-3 shots each, so averages could change with more data shots. I shot with a suppressor and 6' from chronograph. Per my Lyman manual, 32gr H335 was not a hot load, and the results confirm, but I only want accuracy for my plinking/shooting at steel with velocity not being a primary concern.

CCI 400: 2162 fps average
Wolf (standard small rifle): 2171 fps average
PMC small rifle: 2191 fps average
WW standard large rifle: 2231 fps average

Tomorrow I'll do some testing on paper to make sure all primers hit to same impact point and accuracy. Note: These Wolf primers are not designed for ball powder shooting in .223 size or larger cartridges and can have failures to ignite ball powder. It had no problems with the compressed 7.62x39 case full of H335.

Speaking of compressed charges, the H335 load is compressed. Tapping the case seemed to have no big effect on compacting the powder nor did vibrating it. I used to load black powder cartridges in a Sharps. Remembering how I used a drop tube to compact the powder, I held the powder pan a few inches above a funnel and slowly put the H335 into the brass that way. That method definitely helped compress the powder so it wasn't as close to the case mouth as just pouring the powder directly into the case.

 

[Jhunter]

I had hang fires in a 300 RUM. My problem was not enough powder. 90% case capacity and higher solved the issue.

 

[Daezee]

Today I tested the following standard small rifle primers vs accuracy and point of impact vs my WW large rifle primed 7.62x39 reloads with H335. At our plinking range of 35 yards, PMC and Wolf hit close enough (within about 1/8") that no resighting is needed. For group size, PMC was best, followed by Wolf with CCI worst. I'll be using PMC and Wolf in the small primer Remington brass. CCI was twice the group size of the WW LR primers, and I have other uses for it anyway. No hang fires with any primers using H335. H335 being slower burning does give a louder bang though.

I had read that the 223/5.56 RARR (newer model) with removable mag well will interchange with the RARR Mini 30 mag well, allowing one to use AR 7.62x39 mags. It so happened that B52 had a tool kit with him. Another club member had a RARR in 223/5.56 with a removable mag well at the range. So, we swapped mag wells, and they fit right in. We then took 3 AR mags with 7.62x39 ammo loaded and proceeded to check function with 100% success. Why would one want to put an AR mag well into a RARR 7.62x39?...well, if you already own AR mags in 7.62x39, you wouldn't need to buy expensive Mini 30 mags and some 223 AR mags will hold a few 7.62x39 rounds fine anyway. I think the parts needed are about $26 from Ruger, but I'll need to call to check.

Final test at the range: Will removing and replacing the action in the stock move the bullet impact point?...Nope (did fire 4 rounds to make sure action was settled in the stock before shooting at paper).

I mentioned my trigger pull felt heavy. A friend estimated it at 6 pounds. I made a trip to Sawman's. Per his trigger pull gage, we got 5 lb 15.5 oz twice, and a third test gave 6 lb. After shortening the trigger spring and properly lubing it, it was now 3 lb with no creep.

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

Great thread on the x39 RARR.

 

[boatbum101]

I use AA1680 in 357 Max & use either the Rem 7 1/2 or CCI 450 . I was told the CCI 400 was for lesser pressure rounds like 22 Hornet . Am loading for a single-shot with 180 - 200gr & pushing it for almost 35 Rem performance .

 

[Raven]

What do you guys think about handloading some 308 ELDX projectiles in a Wolf 7.62x39 steel case with the Wolf regular amount of powder? I'm hoping to get a polymer tip projectile that won't hit the feed ramp on my SKS and mushroom. I read that the ELDX from Hornady is the only polymer tipped projectile on the market proven by Doppler radar to not deform at sustained high velocity... so I'm hoping it's sturdy enough polymer to not deform on my SKS feed ramp.

The factory loaded x39 Hornady zombie killers won't feed. They hit the feed ramp and mushroom

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

What do you guys think about handloading some 308 ELDX projectiles in a Wolf 7.62x39 steel case with the Wolf regular amount of powder? I'm hoping to get a polymer tip projectile that won't hit the feed ramp on my SKS and mushroom. I read that the ELDX from Hornady is the only polymer tipped projectile on the market proven by Doppler radar to not deform at sustained high velocity... so I'm hoping it's sturdy enough polymer to not deform on my SKS feed ramp.

The factory loaded x39 Hornady zombie killers won't feed. They hit the feed ramp and mushroom

If deer hunting I'd drop one in and aim really good! Basically a single shot rifle.

 

[Jhunter]

What do you guys think about handloading some 308 ELDX projectiles in a Wolf 7.62x39 steel case with the Wolf regular amount of powder? I'm hoping to get a polymer tip projectile that won't hit the feed ramp on my SKS and mushroom. I read that the ELDX from Hornady is the only polymer tipped projectile on the market proven by Doppler radar to not deform at sustained high velocity... so I'm hoping it's sturdy enough polymer to not deform on my SKS feed ramp.

The factory loaded x39 Hornady zombie killers won't feed. They hit the feed ramp and mushroom

I shot an elk last year with their 200 grainer out of a 300 RUM. The bullet hit a rib, blew up on impact and only took out one lung. I was beyond disappointed after tracking the animal for 150 yards. I Couldn’t believe he ran off. I had them going 3100fps. The 6.5 creedmoor crowd praises them but they are closer to 2750 fps at the muzzle.
I’m a believer that match bullets with thicker jackets perform better above 3000 fps vs the thinner jackets. I think the ELDX line up is desisgned for rifles shooting around 2750 fps and slower.

I don’t think you have the high velocity part to worry about out of the X39

 

[FowlHunter13]

I am a bit late to this thread but I have a Ruger Ranch in 7.62X39 and been quite happy with it. I do not reload for this round, but with the luck I have had with the Hornady Black 123gr SST rounds, I have no need to try to better what I already have. At 100 yards, I can have a touching 3 round group. For what I use it for, that is way more than adequate. I have taken 3 deer and 1 pig with it in the three years I have had it and none of them have gone more than 10-15 yards before expiring. Hornady also makes the steel cased version of the same round that has the exact same point of impact. I did put a muzzle break on mine(just because I could not because of the need) and the dang thing feels like a 22WMR on the bench. Next time I head to the range, I will do a grouping to share. I thought about reloading for it, but never felt the need. I have some Tula 154gr soft points that I was going to try in it just to see, but hate to try to fix something that isn’t broken.

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

I am a bit late to this thread but I have a Ruger Ranch in 7.62X39 and been quite happy with it. I do not reload for this round, but with the luck I have had with the Hornady Black 123gr SST rounds, I have no need to try to better what I already have. At 100 yards, I can have a touching 3 round group. For what I use it for, that is way more than adequate. I have taken 3 deer and 1 pig with it in the three years I have had it and none of them have gone more than 10-15 yards before expiring. Hornady also makes the steel cased version of the same round that has the exact same point of impact. I did put a muzzle break on mine(just because I could not because of the need) and the dang thing feels like a 22WMR on the bench. Next time I head to the range, I will do a grouping to share. I thought about reloading for it, but never felt the need. I have some Tula 154gr soft points that I was going to try in it just to see, but hate to try to fix something that isn’t broken.

Yep, it's a great shooter. The tula 154's don't mushroom much but do thru and thru and knock the deer down, short trailing job. Poi is lower than the 123 like about 3 inches.( if zeroed for 123) Accurate though. I just got some of the Hornady sst and zombie ammo before leaving, did not get to try either.

 

[Raven]

If deer hunting I'd drop one in and aim really good! Basically a single shot rifle.

I thought about that, and that's plan... especially considering that I can turn the gas system off on this particular model SKS and I won't even have the sound of the bolt moving. The quick realization that I can shoot it with just one in the chamber and nothing else while hunting (and only hunting) is why I didn't impulsively sell all three boxes of Zombie Killers. They were such a let down. They wouldn't cycle the bolt back far enough to pick up another round either, while Wolf and Tulammo FMJ have no problem cycling

 

[Raven]

I shot an elk last year with their 200 grainer out of a 300 RUM. The bullet hit a rib, blew up on impact and only took out one lung. I was beyond disappointed after tracking the animal for 150 yards. I Couldn’t believe he ran off. I had them going 3100fps. The 6.5 creedmoor crowd praises them but they are closer to 2750 fps at the muzzle.
I’m a believer that match bullets with thicker jackets perform better above 3000 fps vs the thinner jackets. I think the ELDX line up is desisgned for rifles shooting around 2750 fps and slower.

I don’t think you have the high velocity part to worry about out of the X39

Excellent information, thanks