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CC Pistol with Optics

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  • Metal Storm

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    Thinking of getting a pistol with red dot type optics for CC. For those who CC with optics, how was the transition? Any pointers or suggestions of things to look for and to stay away from? What pistol and Optics combination do you use or recommend? Many thanks.
     

    Boogan1

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    As a concealed carry instructor for 15 years my advice is to leave the optics off of a CC pistol and learn combat pistol shooting tactics. All that optic does is make your pistol heavier to carry and fail when you need it most. Also makes it harder to conceal and holsters harder to find. For everyday carry the old K.I.S.S. adage is the best advice. I am sure there will be some tacti-cool operator with 511 pants and fingerless gloves along in a minute to explain why I am wrong.
     

    SMeyer524

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    Boogan makes some excellent points, but it’s shooters preference. If you shoot better with an optic, get one, but do your research. Find an optic that is proven and reliable. Invest in a good holster and install suppressor height iron sights. These will be cowitness and a good backup plus helps you acquire your reddot faster. Even if you battery life is supposed to be 96 years, change it every year on your birthday. Practice, practice, practice. I carry a G5 Glock19 with a Type 2 Trijicon 6.5 MOA RMR. I run Trijicon tough n’bright suppressor height night sights and use a Triad Preses holster. Do your research and you’ll be fine!
     

    RussSurfs

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    Carry what you are confident in. My 57 year old eye (only one works) likes the dot better, but only after a lot of practice. At most self defense distances I can hit a solid shot with the dot or irons. If for some reason I had to make a tight shot, I am way more comfortable with the dot. I have run lots of drills on the range and in matches and I know I am better with the dot so it is the dot for me most of the time.
     

    Fng1911

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    I second the others and carry a tested and proven dot. I wouldn't recommend carry a dot until your proficient and comfortable with it.
     

    Pudge

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    There are many advantages to running a red dot. Good points have already been brought up so I'll just leave you with a couple of questions. If you need to use your concealed carry piece don't you want to have every advantage of winning possible? To you, does that mean running a dot or not? Answer those and you'll know what's right for you.
     

    Dan1612

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    Not unless you’ve got 1000 rounds worth of drills and fundamentals behind one at the VERY least.
    43X MOS with RMR would be my choice. However, my irons lo-cap 43 is fine for me for when and where I concealed carry.
     
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    Boogan1

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    Most people are not going to put in the time to train and become proficient with an optic on a CC pistol. Hell, in my experience most don't even go to the range on a regular basis. So they want to put an optic on their CC pistol thinking it will make up for their lack of practice. That's the main reason I advise against any kind of optics. In a SHTF situation where you have split seconds to react, adrenaline is pumping, you are scared, there is a BG with a gun getting ready to shoot you, unless you have thousands of rounds downrange with a dot you are probably dead before your eye even finds that stupid dot. I feel the same way about lasers.
     

    JWlineman

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    So red dots/optics on a rifle are stupid as well?..
    If one is willing to put in the time and take the training from any number of qualified instructors on rds pistols, they are inherently more accurate and consistent.
     

    Boogan1

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    Nope, not at all. You also had to add the caveat that "if one is willing to put in the time and take the training". My contention is that most are not willing to put in the time or take the training and want to use the optic as a crutch or short cut. I applaud you guys who are moderators and apparently have trained extensively in the use of red dots/ optics. You have all also said it took you a lot of time, training, and rounds down range to become proficient with them. Most people will not commit the time or are unable to commit the $$ in range fees and rounds. I also contend that when shtf the less complicated your CC pistol is the better off you are going to be. I knew my opinion wouldn't be popular but that doesn't mean I am wrong.
     

    JWlineman

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    Meh, you don't share the unpopular opinion and it's not a dig against your opinion. Let's look again at the OP and continue the discussion.
     

    Dan1612

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    Meh, you don't share the unpopular opinion and it's not a dig against your opinion. Let's look again at the OP and continue the discussion.

    Excellent point!

    My input, don’t cheap out. Pistol optics go through a lot of stress. RMR is the gold standard. Holosun also has great reviews but I have no personal experience. The Holosun Vulcan reticle looks really really interesting. That’ll be my next purchase in optics, but initially just to play with.
     

    Raven

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    Not unless you’ve got 1000 rounds worth of drills and fundamentals behind one at the VERY least.
    43X MOS with RMR would be my choice. However, my irons lo-cap 43 is fine for me for when and where I concealed carry.
    I opted to have my Holosun removed from my 43X MOS today. I found myself trying to focus on the red light too much, and in a defensive scenario that kind of tunnel vision could get me or a loved one killed deader than dead. I've got 30 years experience behind acquiring the front sight on the draw from cover and then rocking and rolling with hand/eye coordination, and the shiny red ball just got in the way
     

    Raven

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    Trijicon front sights will give a shooter a lit ball to aim at in the dark, too, without batteries to lose or go dead, and without big pieces of glass hanging off the top of the slide and getting in the way
     

    TR-6

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    I only bothered to respond because you threw down your “15 years of concealed carry instructor” and to “learn combat shooting”, which I’m willing to bet means your going to advocate for some kind of no sights, point shooting BS. So you yourself added a training caveat.

    You also attempted to shame red dot users as the tacticool 5.11 pant and glove wearers.

    Most people don’t train with their pistol period, but I can show you research that says a brand new shooter will get better hits in a force-on-force scenario with a red dot and minimum training than they will with irons.

    But then again I’m also willing to put down my same challenge and I’ll shoot irons and still be faster and get better hits that your “combat shooting”

    Fudds gonna Fudd.

    I’m sure some suspenders and Velcro shoe wearing NRA CC instructor will be along to tell me why I’m wrong.
    Hey I resemble that remark tactical wannabes are going to tactical want to be
     

    MAXman

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    As far as keeping it simple.....

    Isn’t putting a red dot over a target simpler than trying to line up 3 dots/equal height equal light/ dot the I over the same target?

    caveat: never had optics on a handgun, And have zero interest in spending the 500+$ it would take to get one on my p239(which cost me a whooping 340$). Just trying to keep it real: red dots are as simple as aiming gets.
     

    Pudge

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    I opted to have my Holosun removed from my 43X MOS today. I found myself trying to focus on the red light too much, and in a defensive scenario that kind of tunnel vision could get me or a loved one killed deader than dead. I've got 30 years experience behind acquiring the front sight on the draw from cover and then rocking and rolling with hand/eye coordination, and the shiny red ball just got in the way
    A couple quick thoughts on this and your next post. Doesn't a 'lit ball' front sight also cause you to get tunnel vision staring at it just like a dot? A good way to get past staring at or looking for the dot is to take a target and write out a rhyme or phrase on it and then follow along with your pistol on target while reading it out loud. Can't read the lines while focusing on the dot.

    I say all this and believe in dots after absolutely hating them until I learned to shoot one and now will never go back. (My iron sight shooting has improved as well.)
     

    Boogan1

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    I only bothered to respond because you threw down your “15 years of concealed carry instructor” and to “learn combat shooting”, which I’m willing to bet means your going to advocate for some kind of no sights, point shooting BS. So you yourself added a training caveat.

    You also attempted to shame red dot users as the tacticool 5.11 pant and glove wearers.

    Most people don’t train with their pistol period, but I can show you research that says a brand new shooter will get better hits in a force-on-force scenario with a red dot and minimum training than they will with irons.

    But then again I’m also willing to put down my same challenge and I’ll shoot irons and still be faster and get better hits that your “combat shooting”

    Fudds gonna Fudd.

    I’m sure some suspenders and Velcro shoe wearing NRA CC instructor will be along to tell me why I’m wrong.
    I put in my years as a ccw instructor as a qualifier that I wasn't just some keyboard commando with an opinion on everything. My comment about the 5.11 pants and gloves was more of a joke about the same keyboard commandos or wannabe tacti-cool operators. I just spent the past week at the Tulsa Arms show and they were out in force, you know the ones I mean.

    I don't have a hate for red dots, I have them on several guns, both rifles and pistols, I just don't think they are for everyone on a carry gun. If you have a need like the one poster who only had one eye and a dot was helpful to him, by all means, shoot a dot. I just find them cumbersome on a CC handgun. Make the gun heavier, bigger footprint that is harder to conceal, and more stuff to get caught on clothing when drawing from concealment. Yes, these things can be overcome with lots and lots of training but we have both agreed that most people will train very little if at all.

    I outgrew needing to prove my dick is bigger a long time ago but I also shoot competitively on a regular basis and even though my suspenders and velcro shoes will probably slow me down some I can still shoot respectably. LOL!

    So all that said, if the OP wants to carry a pistol with an optic on it go for it! Maybe Deadlythreatdefense has some different holster options you can try out to see what fits your needs. Maybe other members on here would meet up and let you try out their holsters. After all, that's what this place is supposed to be all about, everyone helping each other out.
     

    FrommerStop

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    I do carry a glock with cowitness RMR red dot, but for a typical carry by the typical civilian, for a typical scenario at no more than 7 yards range, under little or no light, meat on metal shooting or some form of point shooting is what is likely going to happen.

    For head shooting or precise placement of your bullets at longer ranges the red dot sight wins.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Thinking of getting a pistol with red dot type optics for CC. For those who CC with optics, how was the transition? Any pointers or suggestions of things to look for and to stay away from? What pistol and Optics combination do you use or recommend? Many thanks.
    My suggestion if you want to use an optic is to choose a pistol with a decent trigger pull that is reliable. Go for co-witness on your setup. Before you buy the gun and RDS combination, make sure your can find a holster that is suitable for your mode of carry.
    Even the 'best' Trijicon RMR can give problems and so make sure your RDS is reliable. The holosun is becoming popular also and is a little less expensive. Many do like the circle and dot optic
    1618407231071.png

    I had no problem with using a RDS sight on a pistol/ One does want co-witness that normally requires milling of the slide if you are using a glock. I think that there may be some other choices out there from other makers of guns that may not require milling to get co-witness.

    1618407484533.png


    co-witness
     
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