"Air Force’s first female special tactics officer earns coveted scarlet beret"

[Mongo463]

I wasn't in the specops community, was in weapons (the kind that go "ka-boom", not "boom"). Overall, did not see too many issues with females in our career field, other than one who caused the Minot to Barksdale clusterf***k.

Air Force’s first female special tactics officer earns coveted scarlet beret

The female airman faces about another year of advanced skills training before she is assigned to an operational unit.

www.militarytimes.com

 

[Infidel99]

Oh joy... let the lowering of the standards commence. Or should I say continue apparently

 

[ChrisC]

I wasn't in the specops community, was in weapons (the kind that go "ka-boom", not "boom"). Overall, did not see too many issues with females in our career field, other than one who caused the Minot to Barksdale clusterf***k.

Air Force’s first female special tactics officer earns coveted scarlet beret

The female airman faces about another year of advanced skills training before she is assigned to an operational unit.

www.militarytimes.com

Ha! I was in Minot when that happened. Mistakes were made.

 

[Snake-Eyes]

Oh joy... let the lowering of the standards commence. Or should I say continue apparently

Did you earn a beret in AFSOC?
Are you intimately familiar with the standards for all involved?
Have you served in combat with women?
Have you ever been shot at?
Was there a woman there with you?
Do you have experience to say whether it really matters?

I’d suggest for all tempted to make a comment, check your credentials first.
Even then, I seriously doubt anyone here is involved now, real-time, with the evolution of combat units in this manner.

I’ll put my faith in the AFSOC/SOCOM community to self-regulate as needed.

Best wishes to the captain and her fellow Commandos.

 

[Mongo463]

Ha! I was in Minot when that happened. Mistakes were made.

Yep, I was long retired by then, but knew some of those involved. The female CMSgt was allowed to retire with no punishment, but others on base and command were given Article 15's, loss of rank and pay, and permanently decertified from the Personnel Reliability Program.

 

[Infidel99]

Yep 3 tours in Iraq.. Been shot at plenty and yes I have the credentialsand personal experience to say that the standards are absolutely lowered for females.

 

[M60Gunner]

They sure as f$&k couldn’t do any of the physical tasks at MOUT training. I opened my mouth about them not having to do the rappelling and climbing in windows with full gear and screwing up land nav etc. and a SF SFC chewed me out good. He then pulled me around the corner and in private said don’t let any of these stupid bi$&@es get you killed in Iraq, you do whatever you need to do to come home.

 

[airspeed272]

I rarely hop in this type of conversation but I’m game.
Former Air Force TACP. (Black Berets) Graduate of Falcon 76 out of Hurby if that helps anyone with questions. Not even sure how I made it but I never quit. Rule fucking number 1.

Day one we had a pt test. If you failed you didn’t make the flight. Cut and dry. From that point forward if a member of any flight quit at any point they were removed from the flight and reclassified. No and ifs or butts. Our class started with a full flight and was one of the only ones to keep that status until field week. Which is where most flights completely fall apart and lose team members. We were cocky and assumed all 32 would be there at the end of the week.

End of week came. 16 remained. Those that didn’t make it who failed got the opportunity to try again with the next flight and if you quit. Goodbye. Those guys went to security forces if they were lucky. Others went to HVAC/Admin/Etc where the Air Force wanted them.

The graduating flight before mine had 10 guys on Sunday night. With the remaining pt test, 12 mile ruck, and final class test in their way of graduating that Thursday. By Thursday 2 guys graduated. After 4 fucking months of hell. The other 8 failed certain things that mon/tues/weds. Most of them did not get to graduate as they had failed too many things prior. That’s real world

If anyone had quit and we later saw them graduate that would be a wtf moment.

Moral of the story, I trust the anonymous instructors who spoke up. The community doesn’t bullshit. It’s professional and surrounded by the most humble (for the most part) people I’ve ever worked with.

End of story: Politics

Edit: all of our tests were based off the 18 year old male specs. Regardless of age/gender/etc. had a 34 year old Msgt in my flight and we all had to meet the same requirements. Even had to live together in the dorms, couldn’t live off base. All equal.

 

[Snake-Eyes]

Yep 3 tours in Iraq.. Been shot at plenty and yes I have the credentialsand personal experience to say that the standards are absolutely lowered for females.

I won’t discount your personal experiences, as I’m sure you won’t discount mine.

The standards were the standards. You either met them, or you didn’t. The only male/female differences were adjustments on PT Tests. There were age adjustments, too. I won’t debate those charts. It affected everyone.

As to job performance, there was no discernible trend of poor performance from predominantly one gender over the other. I was lucky to be surrounded by humble professionals, so I didn’t have to deal with that political garbage.

Since this thread was started about a specific woman, a specific AFSOC Officer, perhaps any disparaging comments could either be substantiated with pertinent facts relating to her, OR, just start another thread.

 

[airspeed272]

I won’t discount your personal experiences, as I’m sure you won’t discount mine.

The standards were the standards. You either met them, or you didn’t. The only male/female differences were adjustments on PT Tests. There were age adjustments, too. I won’t debate those charts. It affected everyone.

As to job performance, there was no discernible trend of poor performance from predominantly one gender over the other. I was lucky to be surrounded by humble professionals, so I didn’t have to deal with that political garbage.

Since this thread was started about a specific woman, a specific AFSOC Officer, perhaps any disparaging comments could either be substantiated with pertinent facts relating to her, OR, just start another thread.

Revised my comment. Wanted to note that while all other Air Force pt tests had variations, at the school house there was no age/sex pt adjustments for us

 

[Mongo463]

AF can't make up its mind on PT tests. Back in the '80's after basic, it was an annual mile run. In the '90's, a stationary bicycle test. Since we were usually pulling/pushing a lot of heavy items (like munitions trailers weighing up to 7300 pounds) and lifting items, most were in reasonably good shape. A lot more active back in those days, even running just about every night at a good pace for four miles (7 min/mile).

 

[IronBeard]

Did you earn a beret in AFSOC?
Are you intimately familiar with the standards for all involved?
Have you served in combat with women?
Have you ever been shot at?
Was there a woman there with you?
Do you have experience to say whether it really matters?

I’d suggest for all tempted to make a comment, check your credentials first.
Even then, I seriously doubt anyone here is involved now, real-time, with the evolution of combat units in this manner.

I’ll put my faith in the AFSOC/SOCOM community to self-regulate as needed.

Best wishes to the captain and her fellow Commandos.

Snake, up front, love your posts and outlook on life, but this ain't what you think it is.

This person failed/quit multiple times, was encouraged/talked back into trying again (more than once) by an O6 and at the behest/direction of COMAFSOC, was then re-assigned directly under COMAFSOC, given a personal trainer, with her entire purpose in life being to "pass." It was quite obviously implied to all involved that she would re-enter "the pipeline,' and pass.

In the end, she only had to retake the course portions that she previously failed/quit, not the entire course as others did/do. If she had any true honor/integrity, she'd have stayed out for the sake of the community, but her selfishness and/or ability to be manipulated has shown through. There was/is an agenda to be furthered.

In the end, this "win" has created a pariah. She will be forever suspect everywhere she goes within the community, silently expected to prove herself daily, and silently judged harshly for each failure; as she should have been to begin with. She'll get tacit respect as an officer, yes ma'am, no ma'am, but no true respect/acceptance until she honestly earns it. Worse yet, future female candidates will be pre-judged coming in the door because of how she was "advanced," and experienced/older operators will leave/retire by the scores. Lessons can then be relearned, at the expense of life, limb, and mind to further the agenda.

In the end, the woke agenda has produced at best a female staff wiener, and poster child, with an undeserved beret, that will be forever suspect in the community, because she has not endured/succeeded where the rest have, and worse, has accepted a command-sponsored inject into the community vs earning it as others have.

 

[Snake-Eyes]

I was not aware of that much backstory detail, IronBeard.

Definitely not the way things happened when I was in. Your performance determined your score and determined whether you met the standards or not. Period. Baseline expectations to even have a seat at the table, and continued performance expectations and improvement tracks to REMAIN at that table. Otherwise, Big Blue Air Force had other jobs you could fill.

Very complicated way forward for her...

Politicians making things needlessly more difficult for the military.
Same ol’ story.

 

[Jdcujo]

I wasn't in the specops community, was in weapons (the kind that go "ka-boom", not "boom"). Overall, did not see too many issues with females in our career field, other than one who caused the Minot to Barksdale clusterf***k.

Air Force’s first female special tactics officer earns coveted scarlet beret

The female airman faces about another year of advanced skills training before she is assigned to an operational unit.

www.militarytimes.com

Munitions or sec forces?

 

[Mongo463]

Munitions

 

[Gaterbaitii]

Munitions

Load Toads

 

[IronBeard]

I was not aware of that much backstory detail, IronBeard.

Definitely not the way things happened when I was in. Your performance determined your score and determined whether you met the standards or not. Period. Baseline expectations to even have a seat at the table, and continued performance expectations and improvement tracks to REMAIN at that table. Otherwise, Big Blue Air Force had other jobs you could fill.

Very complicated way forward for her...

Politicians making things needlessly more difficult for the military.
Same ol’ story.

There is a very active effort to suppress/spin this issue. A little googling will bring up other articles. This person may very well be "qualified" based on current standards. Of one thing I am certain, she was given multiple second chances, and that has not been the norm for decades. Not to mention quitting. Yep, lonely road ahead.

 

[SGT58]

Snake, up front, love your posts and outlook on life, but this ain't what you think it is.

This person failed/quit multiple times, was encouraged/talked back into trying again (more than once) by an O6 and at the behest/direction of COMAFSOC, was then re-assigned directly under COMAFSOC, given a personal trainer, with her entire purpose in life being to "pass." It was quite obviously implied to all involved that she would re-enter "the pipeline,' and pass.

In the end, she only had to retake the course portions that she previously failed/quit, not the entire course as others did/do. If she had any true honor/integrity, she'd have stayed out for the sake of the community, but her selfishness and/or ability to be manipulated has shown through. There was/is an agenda to be furthered.

In the end, this "win" has created a pariah. She will be forever suspect everywhere she goes within the community, silently expected to prove herself daily, and silently judged harshly for each failure; as she should have been to begin with. She'll get tacit respect as an officer, yes ma'am, no ma'am, but no true respect/acceptance until she honestly earns it. Worse yet, future female candidates will be pre-judged coming in the door because of how she was "advanced," and experienced/older operators will leave/retire by the scores. Lessons can then be relearned, at the expense of life, limb, and mind to further the agenda.

In the end, the woke agenda has produced at best a female staff wiener, and poster child, with an undeserved beret, that will be forever suspect in the community, because she has not endured/succeeded where the rest have, and worse, has accepted a command-sponsored inject into the community vs earning it as others have.

It’s time the Woke wake up.

 

[IronBeard]

It’s time the Woke wake up.

Yep.

I understand somebody has do the job, and to a certain extent, you also have to hire who applies/volunteers. I'm past my prime, have nothing left to offer but experience/opinion, and am also quite thankful that my boys experienced enough of my career to know the current circumstances are not for them.

There's gonna be some hard lessons learned in the next big go-round. To that point, I reserve the right to say I told you so, and am sorry for your loss(es).