44 Mag carbine loads, need some experienced advice

[DaSandmanCometh]

I have been loading some berry's plated 240 flat nose with 231 or use in my revolvers for some time now. I don't know the speed, but I do know it's under max loading, 5-8% less than my book. But they group good out of my revolvers. I just got a Marlin 1894 and at 50 yds they are all over the place, almost a 18" group with the 30ish I shoot through it. I had some magtech JLNHP, 240, that grouped very well at the same difference.

So I'm asking for advice on what I might need to look at and change for loading some the berry's, that I have thousands of.

My first thought is bullet diameter, and I haven't checked that yet as I wanted to ask first and then do everything at once.

 

[BamaFaninMilton]

I have read that the barrel twist in the Marlin 44 mag lever rifles is too slow to stabilize bullets that are heavier than 200-225 grains. The twist is something like 1:38 or so, when it should be in the neighborhood of 1:20. It's been a complaint that has gone on for years but Marlin never addressed it for some reason. Maybe now that Ruger owns Marlin it will get changed.

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

What barrel lenght? Longer barrel makes more burn time, also powder makes a difference. Fast/slow. Ymmv

 

[Roaster's Gallery]

Slug your bore, then shoot slightly oversized lead. Marlin bores have been known to be oversized. I had good luck with .430 lead in the ones I have owned. Micro-groove gets a bad rap regarding leading in the bore, but I never experienced it, and plenty of reloaders on the Marlin forum have not experienced it. Size matters in this case.

 

[BowChamp]

I have read that the barrel twist in the Marlin 44 mag lever rifles is too slow to stabilize bullets that are heavier than 200-225 grains. The twist is something like 1:38 or so, when it should be in the neighborhood of 1:20. It's been a complaint that has gone on for years but Marlin never addressed it for some reason. Maybe now that Ruger owns Marlin it will get changed.

My experience has been just the opposite. My Marlin 1894 shoots 1.5" groups at 100 yds. with 240gr to 300gr. jacketed bullets.

 

[DaSandmanCometh]

I have read that the barrel twist in the Marlin 44 mag lever rifles is too slow to stabilize bullets that are heavier than 200-225 grains. The twist is something like 1:38 or so, when it should be in the neighborhood of 1:20. It's been a complaint that has gone on for years but Marlin never addressed it for some reason. Maybe now that Ruger owns Marlin it will get changed.

I haven't shot this much, so I haven't found what it likes. When I shot my reloads, I also shot 2 factory 240 JSP loadings that grouped as expected. I have looked around and seen others mention their marlins liked the lower grain pills as well. I'm going to have to look through my cache and see what I have.

What barrel lenght? Longer barrel makes more burn time, also powder makes a difference. Fast/slow. Ymmv

It's the SBL, 18.5" stainless barrel with 1:38 twist. I use 231 in my reloads so that may be pushing them too fast. I have some No. 9 I might have to try as I believe that's a slower burning powder. It was punching good holes, so no tumbling or breaking up the plated bullets. Which really makes me think to fast or to small dia.

Slug your bore, then shoot slightly oversized lead. Marlin bores have been known to be oversized. I had good luck with .430 lead in the ones I have owned. Micro-groove gets a bad rap regarding leading in the bore, but I never experienced it, and plenty of reloaders on the Marlin forum have not experienced it. Size matters in this case.

I'm about to move so if I do slug it, it'll be in about another 6 months. Or I just may try some more factory loads until I find one it likes and work up a load/bullet to match.

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

1:38t. Wow.

 

[BamaFaninMilton]

My experience has been just the opposite. My Marlin 1894 shoots 1.5" groups at 100 yds. with 240gr to 300gr. jacketed bullets.

Had to refresh my memory (too many years, too many beers, lol!), but you are correct. Here is an excerpt from an article in Handloader magazine by noted gun writer and lever gun aficionado Brian Pearce....

"
Q: Based on your articles in Rifle Magazine and Handloader it is obvious that you have extensive experience with Marlin rifles. I have a Marlin Model 1894 chambered in .44 Magnum that I purchased new about 15-years ago. The first thing that I did was ship it to Brockman (Brockman Custom Gunsmithing, 2165 South 1800 East, Gooding ID 83330) for an action job and to lighten the trigger pull to 3-pounds. I thinned the fat forearm and installed an X-S aperture sight and white stripe post front. Using Speer and Hornady 240-grain jacketed bullets pushed with 21.5 grains of Accurate No. 9 powder with CCI #300 primers (a load that I got from you) I often get groups measuring around 1½ to 2-inches at 75-yards. It is a ton of fun just to shoot offhand rolling cans and rocks, but I have also taken two Kansas whitetail deer with it, both with a single shot.

I have been very pleased with the rifle, but have one problem. I have a friend in Montana that wants me to come hunt black bear with him in the fall of 2020. He suggests that we can possibly find a 350 to 400 pounder or maybe larger. I would like to use a heav-ier bullet, such as the Hornady 300-grain XTP. But when I loaded these bullets, I could not get the same accuracy as my proven 240-grain handloads. And in order to get this bullet to function correctly, I had to seat the bullets deep to the upper crimp groove for an overall cartridge length of around 1.600 inch to permit cartridges to function through the Marlin action. As a result, powder charges had to be reduced from published “revolver” loads that permit that bullet to be seated out and I could not get the velocities that I had hoped for.

Is there anything that I can do to get the 300-grain XTP bullets to shoot well in my rifle? Is there another bullet (or bullets) that I should be considering? Thanks in advance for your help.

F.C., Dodge City, KA

A: The core problem you are experiencing with heavyweight bullets is the rather slow 1:38 twist rate of Marlin .44 Magnum rifles, the same twist used on the Remington 788, Ruger Deerstalker Carbine, Winchester Model 94, Browning 92 and others. For more than 20 years I have met with Marlin representatives, visited their plants and have attempted to convince them to change the twist rate to 1:20, but I have been unsuccessful. Interestingly, other companies, including Ruger, have changed their twist rates, but not Marlin.

The 1:38 twist will give okay accuracy with standard 240- grain bullets; however, with 300- grain bullets, accuracy is often mediocre at best. You don’t offer the powder charge or velocity that you tried. The best chance of obtaining respectable accuracy is to push the bullets as fast as possible while staying within industry pressure guidelines. For example, I often see good accuracy from .444 Marlin rifles using the Hornady 300-grain XTP bullets at 2,000 fps or more, and that cartridge uses the same barrel twist as the .44 Magnum (except very recent production). However, the additional velocity this cartridge can produce helps with stabilization. I suggest using 19.5 grains of Hodgdon H-110 capped with a CCI 350 Magnum primer for around 1,500 fps in your .44 Magnum.

Another option is to use the Hornady 265-grain InterLock FP bullet or Speer Deep Curl SP (formerly Gold Dot SP) 270 grain. The added velocity and lighter weight will generally produce respectable accuracy in the 1:38 twist. I suggest using 23.0 grains of H-110 powder for around 1,700 fps. Seat the Hornady bullet to 1.610 inches and the Speer bullet to 1.600 inches.

I would like to hear how these loads work for you, and I hope that you have a fun and successful bear hunt.

 

[boatbum101]

And that is why I bought a 1 in 20 MGM barrel for my 44 mag Encore . Some food for thought the 240 XTP is pretty damn tough for a JHP & Zero makes a 240 JSP that are .430 . I have to run the Zeros thru a .429 sizer die to chamber them in my MGM barrel . Lead in a Marlin micro groove as stated above oversize for caliber & don't go cheap on lube . Pretty good rule of thumb for cast in rifles you want the fattest bullet that will chamber , hence the old adage to " fill the throat " . Plenty of hunters get theirs with Marlin 44 levers , so it's worth some time to find a load yours likes . IMHO plated bullets are an abomination as accuracy seems to be a city in China they aint goin' to .

 

[DaSandmanCometh]

Had to refresh my memory (too many years, too many beers, lol!), but you are correct. Here is an excerpt from an article in Handloader magazine by noted gun writer and lever gun aficionado Brian Pearce....

"
Q: Based on your articles in Rifle Magazine and Handloader it is obvious that you have extensive experience with Marlin rifles. I have a Marlin Model 1894 chambered in .44 Magnum that I purchased new about 15-years ago. The first thing that I did was ship it to Brockman (Brockman Custom Gunsmithing, 2165 South 1800 East, Gooding ID 83330) for an action job and to lighten the trigger pull to 3-pounds. I thinned the fat forearm and installed an X-S aperture sight and white stripe post front. Using Speer and Hornady 240-grain jacketed bullets pushed with 21.5 grains of Accurate No. 9 powder with CCI #300 primers (a load that I got from you) I often get groups measuring around 1½ to 2-inches at 75-yards. It is a ton of fun just to shoot offhand rolling cans and rocks, but I have also taken two Kansas whitetail deer with it, both with a single shot.

I have been very pleased with the rifle, but have one problem. I have a friend in Montana that wants me to come hunt black bear with him in the fall of 2020. He suggests that we can possibly find a 350 to 400 pounder or maybe larger. I would like to use a heav-ier bullet, such as the Hornady 300-grain XTP. But when I loaded these bullets, I could not get the same accuracy as my proven 240-grain handloads. And in order to get this bullet to function correctly, I had to seat the bullets deep to the upper crimp groove for an overall cartridge length of around 1.600 inch to permit cartridges to function through the Marlin action. As a result, powder charges had to be reduced from published “revolver” loads that permit that bullet to be seated out and I could not get the velocities that I had hoped for.

Is there anything that I can do to get the 300-grain XTP bullets to shoot well in my rifle? Is there another bullet (or bullets) that I should be considering? Thanks in advance for your help.

F.C., Dodge City, KA

A: The core problem you are experiencing with heavyweight bullets is the rather slow 1:38 twist rate of Marlin .44 Magnum rifles, the same twist used on the Remington 788, Ruger Deerstalker Carbine, Winchester Model 94, Browning 92 and others. For more than 20 years I have met with Marlin representatives, visited their plants and have attempted to convince them to change the twist rate to 1:20, but I have been unsuccessful. Interestingly, other companies, including Ruger, have changed their twist rates, but not Marlin.

The 1:38 twist will give okay accuracy with standard 240- grain bullets; however, with 300- grain bullets, accuracy is often mediocre at best. You don’t offer the powder charge or velocity that you tried. The best chance of obtaining respectable accuracy is to push the bullets as fast as possible while staying within industry pressure guidelines. For example, I often see good accuracy from .444 Marlin rifles using the Hornady 300-grain XTP bullets at 2,000 fps or more, and that cartridge uses the same barrel twist as the .44 Magnum (except very recent production). However, the additional velocity this cartridge can produce helps with stabilization. I suggest using 19.5 grains of Hodgdon H-110 capped with a CCI 350 Magnum primer for around 1,500 fps in your .44 Magnum.

Another option is to use the Hornady 265-grain InterLock FP bullet or Speer Deep Curl SP (formerly Gold Dot SP) 270 grain. The added velocity and lighter weight will generally produce respectable accuracy in the 1:38 twist. I suggest using 23.0 grains of H-110 powder for around 1,700 fps. Seat the Hornady bullet to 1.610 inches and the Speer bullet to 1.600 inches.

I would like to hear how these loads work for you, and I hope that you have a fun and successful bear hunt.

This is good info. thanks for posting it.

And that is why I bought a 1 in 20 MGM barrel for my 44 mag Encore . Some food for thought the 240 XTP is pretty damn tough for a JHP & Zero makes a 240 JSP that are .430 . I have to run the Zeros thru a .429 sizer die to chamber them in my MGM barrel . Lead in a Marlin micro groove as stated above oversize for caliber & don't go cheap on lube . Pretty good rule of thumb for cast in rifles you want the fattest bullet that will chamber , hence the old adage to " fill the throat " . Plenty of hunters get theirs with Marlin 44 levers , so it's worth some time to find a load yours likes . IMHO plated bullets are an abomination as accuracy seems to be a city in China they aint goin' to .

I'm starting to lean towards my berry's being to small dia or this rifle. I like plated for just plinking, they are cheap and IMO easier on the gun and the man cleaning it than using lead. If I didn't have so many of these already loaded and so many bullets just waiting to be loaded, I wouldn't be trying to figure out an issue. This Marlin is by far the nicest 44 lever action I have and pleasant to shoot. The biggest reason is that it's also threaded so I can use my 45 can. And I want to use my can on it very badly, with my reloaded plated plinkers. But I'm not about to risk a baffle strike using them until I can get better accuracy.

 

[boatbum101]

I see so many fall into the plated trip . For casual plinking with light to moderate loads & where you can't shoot lead I guess . Accuracy is usually abysmal at best unless one shoots @ spitting distance . Following are max loads with a 240 XTP , Win LP primer , oal 1.600" : 21.0grs of AA#9 , 21.0grs 2400 , 24.0grs W296 / H110 . Should be able to get acceptible hunting accuracy out of one of them .

 

[BowChamp]

Had to refresh my memory (too many years, too many beers, lol!), but you are correct. Here is an excerpt from an article in Handloader magazine by noted gun writer and lever gun aficionado Brian Pearce....

"
Q: Based on your articles in Rifle Magazine and Handloader it is obvious that you have extensive experience with Marlin rifles. I have a Marlin Model 1894 chambered in .44 Magnum that I purchased new about 15-years ago. The first thing that I did was ship it to Brockman (Brockman Custom Gunsmithing, 2165 South 1800 East, Gooding ID 83330) for an action job and to lighten the trigger pull to 3-pounds. I thinned the fat forearm and installed an X-S aperture sight and white stripe post front. Using Speer and Hornady 240-grain jacketed bullets pushed with 21.5 grains of Accurate No. 9 powder with CCI #300 primers (a load that I got from you) I often get groups measuring around 1½ to 2-inches at 75-yards. It is a ton of fun just to shoot offhand rolling cans and rocks, but I have also taken two Kansas whitetail deer with it, both with a single shot.

I have been very pleased with the rifle, but have one problem. I have a friend in Montana that wants me to come hunt black bear with him in the fall of 2020. He suggests that we can possibly find a 350 to 400 pounder or maybe larger. I would like to use a heav-ier bullet, such as the Hornady 300-grain XTP. But when I loaded these bullets, I could not get the same accuracy as my proven 240-grain handloads. And in order to get this bullet to function correctly, I had to seat the bullets deep to the upper crimp groove for an overall cartridge length of around 1.600 inch to permit cartridges to function through the Marlin action. As a result, powder charges had to be reduced from published “revolver” loads that permit that bullet to be seated out and I could not get the velocities that I had hoped for.

Is there anything that I can do to get the 300-grain XTP bullets to shoot well in my rifle? Is there another bullet (or bullets) that I should be considering? Thanks in advance for your help.

F.C., Dodge City, KA

A: The core problem you are experiencing with heavyweight bullets is the rather slow 1:38 twist rate of Marlin .44 Magnum rifles, the same twist used on the Remington 788, Ruger Deerstalker Carbine, Winchester Model 94, Browning 92 and others. For more than 20 years I have met with Marlin representatives, visited their plants and have attempted to convince them to change the twist rate to 1:20, but I have been unsuccessful. Interestingly, other companies, including Ruger, have changed their twist rates, but not Marlin.

The 1:38 twist will give okay accuracy with standard 240- grain bullets; however, with 300- grain bullets, accuracy is often mediocre at best. You don’t offer the powder charge or velocity that you tried. The best chance of obtaining respectable accuracy is to push the bullets as fast as possible while staying within industry pressure guidelines. For example, I often see good accuracy from .444 Marlin rifles using the Hornady 300-grain XTP bullets at 2,000 fps or more, and that cartridge uses the same barrel twist as the .44 Magnum (except very recent production). However, the additional velocity this cartridge can produce helps with stabilization. I suggest using 19.5 grains of Hodgdon H-110 capped with a CCI 350 Magnum primer for around 1,500 fps in your .44 Magnum.

Another option is to use the Hornady 265-grain InterLock FP bullet or Speer Deep Curl SP (formerly Gold Dot SP) 270 grain. The added velocity and lighter weight will generally produce respectable accuracy in the 1:38 twist. I suggest using 23.0 grains of H-110 powder for around 1,700 fps. Seat the Hornady bullet to 1.610 inches and the Speer bullet to 1.600 inches.

I would like to hear how these loads work for you, and I hope that you have a fun and successful bear hunt.

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

Following this one. I have the Ruger deerslayer carbine as well.

 

[BamaFaninMilton]

I have a Ruger 77/44 but haven't tried any bullets heavier than 240 grain jacketed soft points in it yet, although I do have some PPU 300 gr. jsp loads that I want to try in it. I also cast some lead bullets from Lyman mold #429421 but those will have to be loaded in 44 Special brass to fit in the rotary magazine that the 77/44 has, either that or trim 44 magnum brass to 44 Special length.

 

[IronBeard]

OP, I'm late to the game, but based on "just got" the rifle, if it is used, I'd try a good, thorough cleaning first. A cleaning that will remove any and all fouling. If it's new/clean; disregard.

 

[Ron]

I have been loading some berry's plated 240 flat nose with 231 or use in my revolvers for some time now. I don't know the speed, but I do know it's under max loading, 5-8% less than my book. But they group good out of my revolvers. I just got a Marlin 1894 and at 50 yds they are all over the place, almost a 18" group with the 30ish I shoot through it. I had some magtech JLNHP, 240, that grouped very well at the same difference.

So I'm asking for advice on what I might need to look at and change for loading some the berry's, that I have thousands of.

My first thought is bullet diameter, and I haven't checked that yet as I wanted to ask first and then do everything at once.

I have been down this road myself. I have a Henry 44 mag with a 1:38 twist rate and had the same problem. I use plated bullets and was using W-231. My groups at 100 yards were so-so. I switched powders and now use Alliant 2400 and get much better groups. I use Powerbond and Berry's 240 gr. flat nose bullets 0.429 dia. and I am very happy with my groups now! I have used W-296 and got great accuracy as well but the recoil was a bit much and that is why I went with 2400 powder. With 2400 you get more of a load range to work with compared to W-296.

 

[Ron]

I see so many fall into the plated trip . For casual plinking with light to moderate loads & where you can't shoot lead I guess . Accuracy is usually abysmal at best unless one shoots @ spitting distance . Following are max loads with a 240 XTP , Win LP primer , oal 1.600" : 21.0grs of AA#9 , 21.0grs 2400 , 24.0grs W296 / H110 . Should be able to get acceptible hunting accuracy out of one of them .

Plated bullets are about half the price of FMJ bullets and in my guns the accuracy is the same as FMJ bullets. I use Powerbond or Berry's 240 gr. 0.429 bullets with 2400 and W-296 with great accuracy out of my Henry 44 Mag. with a 1:38 twist rate and my S&W model 29 44 Mag. They didn't like W-231 except for plinking. I use 19 grs. of 2400 or 23 grs. of W-296 and shoot at 100 yards at steel targets with open sights. I hardly ever miss!

 

[Ron]

This is good info. thanks for posting it.

I'm starting to lean towards my berry's being to small dia or this rifle. I like plated for just plinking, they are cheap and IMO easier on the gun and the man cleaning it than using lead. If I didn't have so many of these already loaded and so many bullets just waiting to be loaded, I wouldn't be trying to figure out an issue. This Marlin is by far the nicest 44 lever action I have and pleasant to shoot. The biggest reason is that it's also threaded so I can use my 45 can. And I want to use my can on it very badly, with my reloaded plated plinkers. But I'm not about to risk a baffle strike using them until I can get better accuracy.

Change your powder! I use 2400 and get great groups at 100 yards!

 

[Ron]

This is good info. thanks for posting it.

I'm starting to lean towards my berry's being to small dia or this rifle. I like plated for just plinking, they are cheap and IMO easier on the gun and the man cleaning it than using lead. If I didn't have so many of these already loaded and so many bullets just waiting to be loaded, I wouldn't be trying to figure out an issue. This Marlin is by far the nicest 44 lever action I have and pleasant to shoot. The biggest reason is that it's also threaded so I can use my 45 can. And I want to use my can on it very badly, with my reloaded plated plinkers. But I'm not about to risk a baffle strike using them until I can get better accuracy.

What is the dia. of your bullets? I shoot plated 240 gr. 0.249 dia. bullets at 100 yards with excellent results! Stay away from the W-231 powder as that is good for plinking rounds only and at close range. The only way you are going to use your can successfully is to stay subsonic and I guess that is why you are using W-231?