MY RANGE IS THE BERMUDA TRIANGLE of RANGES

[Bowhntr6pt]

Had a great Carbine/Pistol class this weekend, unfortunately some in attendance didn't have a smooth experience.

We had two Holosun brand optics exhibit QC problems. The first to go was a Mod. 403B where the dot was non-existent. There was just a red glow/streak across the glass, owner said he had just used it and this must have suddenly developed. I failed to get a pic. I will contact the shooter and see if he can send me one.

The second to exhibit a problem was a Mod. 503G, the front lens simply pushed backwards into the housing. It still worked but obviously it's junk IMO.



The thing I'd like to point out is these "budget" optics are in the $200 range which makes them within $125 reach of an Aimpoint PRO on the used market. While I continue to see "budget" optics fail in class I have yet to see a problem with a quality optic such as an Aimpoint PRO... YEARS and YEARS of classes, YEARS and YEARS of training at work with TENS of THOUSANDS of rounds... "budget" optics continue to go down and folks are disappointed. Well... at least it happened on the range. The most consistent statement I get from the owners is "I don't get it, I've used this sight for (fill in the time) and I've never had a problem". Well... I guess my range is the Bermuda Triangle of ranges...lol.

The owner of one of the Holosun sights also had a problem with his EoTech 55 sight. The power kept going out which is a known problem for those type EoTech sights. The battery compartment rebuild are non existent but I have some pack-ratted away I'm trying to find so I can send him one.

I know, I know, YOUR (fill in the brand name here) budget optic is "just as good" as an Aimpoint and it's severed you well for YEARS and YEARS. You can fool others and yourself, me, I'll NEVER recommend those budget sights when a slightly more expensive option exists.

And of course, we still had issues with rifles functioning... another distractor. Again, the same "I've shot this thing at the range for years, it's never done this"... yep, my place is certainly the Bermuda Triangle of ranges.

I post this not to start an internet fight lol, I post it because time and time again I see people buy cheap stuff and come to class only to become frustrated and disappointed. Then, during class, problems develop and the fun learning experience that was intended now becomes a frustrating attempt to keep their gear going... it shouldn't be that way.

For those with an open mind, it really doesn't take that much more money to acquire good gear/parts/optics that won't let you down. Your hard earned money, time, and more importantly your life, is worth the few extra dollars.

Thanks for reading.

 

[.22 cents]

Repair Policy - Aimpoint Global

The warranty is limited to the original owner and is not transferable. The warranty is valid provided that the sight has not been misused, disassembled, or tampered with in any way.

www.aimpoint.com

stuff breaks. Ive seen Fords, Chevy and Dodge sitting on the side of the road

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

Repair Policy - Aimpoint Global

The warranty is limited to the original owner and is not transferable. The warranty is valid provided that the sight has not been misused, disassembled, or tampered with in any way.

www.aimpoint.com

stuff breaks. Ive seen Fords, Chevy and Dodge sitting on the side of the road

Yes Sir it in fact does... some at a much higher rate than others.

 

[BowChamp]

Aimpoint PRO makes for a very nice optic on a rifle. I also recommend Trijicon.

I'm as guilty as the next when it comes to buying cheap to get a build finished.

 

[BowChamp]

What type of rifles do you see fail the most??

Home brew or factory?

And what seems to be the most common failure point?? Besides the cheap optics . LOL!!!

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

What type of rifles do you see fail the most??

Home brew or factory?

And what seems to be the most common failure point?? Besides the cheap optics . LOL!!!

Mostly home built guns. I have plenty of home built rifles and I can't tell you the last time I had a malfunction. I love home builds if done so with quality parts by someone who knows what they are doing.

I've seen hammer springs upside down in home builds and a few classes ago had a factory rifle with an upside down hammer spring. It was some off-brand, not a major brand. I took a pic but not sure what I did with it. Recently had a rifle that "a good friend who knows guns built it for me" ended up having an upside down hammer spring. When a rifle exhibits intermittent failures to fire that's the first thing I look for and that's what the rifle was doing.

Failures include failure to extract, feed, eject. A couple have involved 80% builds, others are straight forward builds.

WHY do these rifles choke? I don't know for the most part because I have a class to run and don't have time to dive into diagnostic measures. Again, many claim the rifles "really don't act up" when they shoot them yet they exhibit continual issues in the class.

What is consistent throughout my observations is MOST can't readily tell me whose parts were used in their build.

Bad/weak extractors, rough chambers, undersize/oversize gas ports, are the main areas I suspect are the cause of most of these problems.

ETA- There have been some rifles that have the skeleton cut BCG's or "Light Weight" BCG's and or the after market buffer systems that don't function 100%. Again, can't say for sure why, but the clue I suspect is the non-standard parts are not playing well with the rest of the rifle.

In this last class one rifle that "functioned perfectly" prior to adding a "FAIL SAFE" or "FAIL ZERO" or something like that BCG would not run. The guy said he just added the BCG and the problems started. Unfortunately he did not bring the original BCG to restore his rifle to a dependable status and determine for sure the new BCG was at fault... but I assume it was.

 

[sparky]

Very informative answers, enjoyed reading them. Thanks

 

[Raven]

BUIS go a long ways towards being priceless. I've had budget optics fail too. And an Aimpoint that did not fail... but only because I traded it to Jay's for more than I paid for it before I ever pulled a trigger with it. It was nice and I'd buy another one. Stay away from Eotech. The memory of the Spec Ops lawsuit against Eotech and Eotech endangering our men in uniform is still fresh

 

[Raven]

The way people act nowadays you'd never know we were only like 20 or 30 years removed from having just went like 400 years with only iron sights on 99% of service rifles.

 

[Jester896]

Trijicon has about the same warranty as Aimpoint.

I do have one of those Holosun units on one of mine (FM-9). Don't use it enough to make it fail. The other (Colt) has and older Vortex Sparc with a backup in the safe...coulda bought the lower end Aimpoint for that I guess. Everyone except the Holosun Co-Witness and it would be lower 1/3rd if it did.

Last carbine pistol transition class I attended one of the ROs would slip up behind you with a wide ruler 3' long with black tape wrapped on it and cover your ejection port to jamb you up. Couldn't see it coming while firing. Drop Mag, Prom Date, Run Bolt, Lock Bolt, Insert New Mag send the bolt home he would yell from behind while the others were still firing the drills

enjoyed your aa review

 

[SAWMAN]

My thoughts on this subject (the OP).
I have seen this dozens and dozens of times relating to HUNTING.
A "sport" will show up to camp after paying big bucks for the hunt. Wearing $1000. worth of L.L. Bean gear. He carries an expensive Weatherby and expensive Weatherby ammo.
Many came for moose which was a once in a lifetime hunt in Maine.
His gun wears a TASCO,SIMMONS,or his grandpaws 50 year old Redfield.
For law enforcement,contractor,or body guard applications why would you not use the very best.
EXPENSIVE - -> WHO CARES ... COULD SAVE YOUR LIFE OR THE LIVES OF OTHERS !!
HOW COULD AN INDIVIDUAL,UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES NOT USE THE ABSOLUTE VERY BEST ???
Jeeeeeeeeeze guys !!! Try to wise 'em up Bowhntr ---- SAWMAN

 

[FLT]

Cheap equipment is usually worth what you pay for it, this reminds of what a salesman at a motorcycle shop said to me when I ask if the $300 helmet was that much better than the $125 helmet. He said simply, if you have a $125 head I guess you don’t need a $300 helmet. I bought the $300 helmet!

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

Gotta ask, strike fire 2 and spitfires?

 

[jugdish]

Last carbine pistol transition class I attended one of the ROs would slip up behind you with a wide ruler 3' long with black tape wrapped on it and cover your ejection port to jamb you up. Couldn't see it coming while firing. Drop Mag, Prom Date, Run Bolt, Lock Bolt, Insert New Mag send the bolt home he would yell from behind while the others were still firing the drills

Yep, same hear plus they had someone firing round (into a burm) trying to make the situation more stressful. Good stuff.



Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Jester896]

yep... the others on the line were still firing

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

Yep, same hear plus they had someone firing round (into a burm) trying to make the situation more stressful. Good stuff.



Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk

Ha, I shoot left!

 

[Duckyou]

If your going to buy aimpoint just spend the extra to get a Trijicon.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

My thoughts on this subject (the OP).
I have seen this dozens and dozens of times relating to HUNTING.
A "sport" will show up to camp after paying big bucks for the hunt. Wearing $1000. worth of L.L. Bean gear. He carries an expensive Weatherby and expensive Weatherby ammo.
Many came for moose which was a once in a lifetime hunt in Maine.
His gun wears a TASCO,SIMMONS,or his grandpaws 50 year old Redfield.
For law enforcement,contractor,or body guard applications why would you not use the very best.
EXPENSIVE - -> WHO CARES ... COULD SAVE YOUR LIFE OR THE LIVES OF OTHERS !!
HOW COULD AN INDIVIDUAL,UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES NOT USE THE ABSOLUTE VERY BEST ???
Jeeeeeeeeeze guys !!! Try to wise 'em up Bowhntr ---- SAWMAN

It was in the very first or second class I did for "business" some years back, I was giving a speech on quality gear, optics, and rifles as I did not like what I saw in the crowd.

I could tell one guy really wasn't agreeing with what I was saying, he had an optic that he claimed was "every bit as good as an Aimpoint at half the cost". I had him stand up, and like you mentioned, he had high quality pants, chest rig, etc., etc., etc. but when it came to the optic he went "cheap". The optic is arguably one of the most important pieces of kit. We simply agreed to disagree and moved on with the class.

Well, this was July or August and several thunder showers rolled through. We were wet to the bone, hot, humid, steam coming off our bodies. As we were walking down to check targets he told me to look at his optic... it was fogged over, I told him just wipe it off... he said it was on the inside. He then looked at me and came clean... he said it stopped working an hour or so ago but after our "exchange" of opinions he "sure as He** wasn't going to tell me".

As anyone reading this post, and others like it as this topic comes up regularly on gun boards will see, there are folks out there that will dismiss the point(s) I'm trying to make. They will say, as has already been mentioned, "all things break". True. But some stuff it boils down to a matter of "when" and not "if".

Trijicon makes good stuff, or at least at one time did. I've had to return an ACOG, as did a friend, as it delaminated on the inside. Vortex red dots... seen several fail not only in my class but we had one in a SWAT school actually come apart. I love the Vortex product starting at the Viper PST and going up... the stuff below the Viper line, not so much.

I'm just one guy with a range who spends a great deal of time shooting recreationally, training professionally, and spending as much time as I can on the range helping others whether it be commercially or as a favor, I guess I'm like that insurance commercial... I know a few things because I've seen a few things.

It's a real bummer to see people come to class, ESPECIALLY new shooters, struggle with substandard firearms, optics, and ammo. An initial bad experience may very well turn them away from further interest in training. I've had people come to class with problematic rifles and come BACK to class months later with the same rifle and the same problems.

You don't have spend "top dollar"... just make sure you're buying proven products from reputable sources. That $30 lower parts kit, $75 barrel, $200 optic, $25 optic mount, $35 Bi-pod, etc., are all priced according to the quality within.

Sorry for the long post... I just get passionate about performance.

 

[SAWMAN]

Try shooting full auto from the kneeling,when your team mate is standing over you shooting a M60 and the belt is whacking you on the top of the head.
CARDNIAL RULE - -> do not stand up until he grabs you by your collar and jerks you to your feet.
Then by the time you spin around and look,he is freakin' GONE. This was "boss". He was 5' 9" and weighed 230. He could bench press almost 300lbs for about 4-6reps. ---- SAWMAN

 

[Duckyou]

I was told that an optic should cost the same or more than the rifle you put it on.